Do Detroiters hate/resent themselves?

**brizee** · January-04-13, 12:10 PM

If you want, replace Detroiters with black americans in general, and I say the answer is yes either way.

The violence and lack of care we show each other's lives or well being is obvious. Almost 400 murders here. Almost 500 in Chicago. Shooting into a crowded subway train or bus in Philadelphia over a damn argument.

It's also the little things like the lack of respect. I personally sat in a car with a guy throwing his snotty napkins out the window all along Detroit, including my father's house, but the fucking minute we hit 8 Mile he stops. And this asshole LIVED in the city. You will have kids that throw trash on my lawn, their lawn, but won't even think about doing it to a white suburban home.

We refuse to support business in the city. And on the flipside alot of the business here have the fuck you attitude where they don't have to win your patronage anyway.

What kind of person walks through a door being held open, while screaming at their kids, and doesn't say thank you or anything else and doesn't even look at you or acknowledge that you're there?

And black women? It's not enough hours in the day to unravel that one.

It's obviously not all or even most. And not all of that conditioning was our doing. But we have got to find to a way to unfuck ourselves.

**Detroitnerd** · January-04-13, 01:06 PM

Interesting perspectives. True, sometimes it's like a Bizzarro World.

**canuck** · January-04-13, 01:29 PM

I can only sympathize with your frustration brizee. It's a tough one to call. If you look at the sizable minority of dysfunctional folks in the black community, it may be that they are in a headspace where they already have given up. It's a conditioned reflex of giving up, it's a learned thing.

Lack of education, crime, absentee fathers and the rest are residual of the kinds of behaviors and conditions that existed not long ago, created by the lack of opportunities in the community at large for blacks.

You dont have to go back to slavery and the fact that children didnt even belong to their parents to get the indignity. In spite of the advances the black community made to further education by creating colleges and hospitals and other institutions, the lack of opportunities in practice outside the community were a serious disadvantage in time. I say in time because the changes in civil rights law came too late to break the cycle of ghetto idleness and self defeat in my mind.

If opportunities in the workplace had existed past college for many black professionals, the outcome today would be quite different. Detroit has plenty of good people who care, but it has to find a way to change mentalities in order to survive and then to thrive. So, when I think of all that was said about CAY's angry role in the demise of Detroit, I also cant wash away the tattooed thought that the man must have been really pissed off at whites for the long suffered indignities of black folks around him. How many talented blacks never got to practice the art and science they could have, in a more just society?

You wouldnt have the nigga against nigga culture of self destruct that is now part of our evolved discourse if the insult had not been directed from white to black for generations. I hope the punitive aspect of american society can be replaced with cooperative measures.

**Detroitnerd** · January-04-13, 01:38 PM

Somebody had mentioned that there was a book that used to be handed out to Detroit teachers to understand why many people in Detroit behave as they do.

I know I've had my share of frustrations dealing with people like Brizee describes, not to ascribe a racial aspect to it.

I'll be at the party store, all my stuff picked out, knowing what I want from behind the counter, cash in hand, ready to go. Then there's somebody in front of me asking how much change they have left, picking out a Swisher or a Blunt Wrap, penny candies, loosies, etc. I'm back there eyerolling.

But if you can't do math, how do you know what you can afford? It kinda makes sense. The guy behind the Plexi is there to provide a service.

Another thing that bothers me is there will be a parking lot with all empty spaces and you see a person drive right up to the fucking door and park there. I've seen white and black Detroiters pull this one. Oh, yeah? Are you so important you don't even need to park in a space? Just going to block the entrance for everybody? WTF?

Anyway, Briz, ain't just black people disrespecting the city. I see a ton of white tailgaters who break laws on open containers in Eastern Market when they'd never break that kind of law in the burbs. Everybody knows the rules are different in town.

**Gistok** · January-04-13, 01:47 PM

Brizee.... I just picture you as the 2nd person in line here.... you just can't win...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFiTvZyHNI

**EastsideAl** · January-04-13, 02:13 PM

I find reasons to hate myself all the time. I'm certainly a Detroiter, but not black.

**Detroitnerd** · January-04-13, 02:21 PM

I may hate myself sometimes, but then I think of what it would be like to live in Portland. Where you can't walk nine paces without running into a vegan food cart, and where the locavore beer joints are all full of cleverly repurposed fixtures and don't even have anybody smoking outside them. Tripping over fixie bikes towing babies or dogs, walking past frosted-glass boutiques filled with mock Goodwill cardigans selling for $100, where inside everybody is talking about DIY charcuterie, vintage buttons or recycled wooden paneling. The kind of all-white racially homogenous place where racism isn't considered so much wrong as considered in poor taste.

Now, put me in a place like that and I guarantee you: I will hate them more than I will ever, ever hate myself.

**brizee** · January-04-13, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

, Briz, ain't just black people disrespecting the city. I see a ton of white tailgaters who break laws on open containers in Eastern Market when they'd never break that kind of law in the burbs. Everybody knows the rules are different in town.

True.

Didn't intend for the thread to be shit on black people/Detroiters. It's just damnit we can do better.

And it's not all what we do, it's what we accept. How are there not stories of house scrapper being tarred, feathered and left on the side of the side of the road?

Or the bullshit from our leaders. My dad worked for the city for 30 years and he felt, the fact that Dennis Archer and later Kwame weren't ducking daily gunfire was an indictment on every citizen of Detroit.

Pops always had...a unique outlook on life a morbid sense of humor, but I'm starting to see where he was coming from on many things more and more lately.

And I don't think I like it.

**canuck** · January-04-13, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I may hate myself sometimes, but then I think of what it would be like to live in Portland. Where you can't walk nine paces without running into a vegan food cart, and where the locavore beer joints are all full of cleverly repurposed fixtures and don't even have anybody smoking outside them. Tripping over fixie bikes towing babies or dogs, walking past frosted-glass boutiques filled with mock Goodwill cardigans selling for $100, where inside everybody is talking about DIY charcuterie, vintage buttons or recycled wooden paneling. The kind of all-white racially homogenous place where racism isn't considered so much wrong as considered in poor taste.

Now, put me in a place like that and I guarantee you: I will hate them more than I will ever, ever hate myself.

How about compounding injury to insult; getting hit by an electric bus.

May Dog love you and keep you in Detroit Dnerd!

**Jaybiz** · January-04-13, 05:22 PM

The times have changed for the worst. I don't think the young killers hate themselves or the people who shit on their own neighborhood without a second thought hate themselves. They are not self hating they are self centered narcissistic and many are sociopaths, Others property or even lives means nothing to them unless it somehow benefits themselves in some way. That's why littering, stealing or hurting someone isn't a big deal when this mentality is prevalent, it takes;a conscious, self sacrifice, long term goals instead of instant gratification, parents that present and interested in their children not smoking weed all day and if and when you have a community full of people with these values then you'll watch all the problems of Detroit wash away. It doesn't take more Police, more food stamps, more teachers and more money to throw at the problem, all it takes is decent upbringing regardless of income or neighborhood. I should know I grew up on the east side in a rough 'hood but my mother & father made sure I was doing my homework when my friends were out running the streets and ruining their lives.

**p69rrh51** · January-04-13, 05:38 PM

Over the holidays I ran into many of the women described here but found quite a few young men both black and white who were quite polite. Maybe there is some hope! There are those who hate themselves everywhere its not just a local phenomenon!

**brizee** · January-10-13, 01:43 PM

Look at this stupidity out in Chicago.

730 murders.

In a fucking American city.

I'm trying to leave, only to land in might be an even WORSE hellhole!

TPTB need to rip off the finale for The Shield.

Don't send them to prison, they'll just lift weight, get meaner and come out better predators.

Sentence them to write book reports and engineering white papers.

10 pages single spaced.

Due every evening.

Crime would drop to zero.

**tapstevenson** · January-10-13, 03:10 PM

I am just sitting here reading your post and thinking, my God you nailed it. Whoever you are, if you are not a writer, start. If you are a writer keep writing!
I am white. I did however grow up on the northwest side of Detroit and I like to think that Detroiters are a breed apart. We are a culture in itself and a good one. Detroit has a very rich history albeit with many problems, PLEASE every single person who wakes up every day in this city, don't give up. Ever. Never ever give up! and no one should hate themselves that goes out into the world every day and tries to make something of themselves and be a good citizen and responsible person. Detroit will rise again.

**Tig3rzhark** · January-10-13, 03:21 PM

Do Detroiters hate/resent themselves?

My answer: We hate the situation that we have made for ourselves. [[There is plenty of blame for Detroit's current situation to go around, but we have to look in the mirror first.)

We hate the lack of respect that is given to this city, yet we don't give that respect to our own citizens.

We hate the crime that goes on in this city, yet when it happens, the communities do little to solve the problem.

We direct our concerns and complaints to those that we elected to represent us, yet when someone gets too emotional, the elected officials can't take the heat, and do what we elected them to do: To represent the best interests of Detroit.

This and more...lots more.

**AUSSIE** · January-10-13, 04:10 PM

=brizee
And black women? It's not enough hours in the day to unravel that one.

I always say to my mates "what goes on in womens heads?" good to see that its the same same world wide!

Still, as we hardly have any black people in Australia, i find black girls a turn on, not sure what they are like, some are real hotties!

It's obviously not all or even most. And not all of that conditioning was our doing. But we have got to find to a way to unfuck ourselves.

Unfuck ourselves, thats God Jerry, Gold, i am stealing that comment and bringing it to AUS!

Cheers

**jolla** · January-10-13, 06:06 PM

I like "unfuck ourselves", too.

**Hamtragedy** · January-10-13, 06:38 PM

As I talked to a longtime Detroiter yesterday, who has invested decades of time, effort, and money into the city, and is still active in many roles community wide in his neighborhood he said this:

"One of the steps you need to make in a recovery program is realize that every decision you've made up to this point was your best decision. Look where that got you. You're running less than half the streetlights, now the traffic lights are starting to go out, and the water company has no idea what the hell they are doing"

This was all after spending the afternoon at the DWSD Service Center on Grand River trying to convince them he has a meter and an electronic reading device and would like to start receiving his regular bill once again. They said he had none of that, even though he's been receiving a bill for 20 years, and it all of a sudden stopped coming.

**SWMAP** · January-10-13, 08:12 PM

In the specific incident of the water meter dispute, I suggest: using cell phone, photograph meter and reading and email it to Director of DWSD with note requesting contact to help resolve dispute. A phone call to her office requesting her email address will facilitate the process.

**MidTownMs** · January-10-13, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

Look at this stupidity out in Chicago.

730 murders.

In a fucking American city.

I'm trying to leave, only to land in might be an even WORSE hellhole!

TPTB need to rip off the finale for The Shield.

Don't send them to prison, they'll just lift weight, get meaner and come out better predators.

Sentence them to write book reports and engineering white papers.

10 pages single spaced.

Due every evening.

Crime would drop to zero.

Write? Surely you jest. They went to DPS. Ooops I mean they dropped out of DPS.

**eno** · January-10-13, 11:56 PM

Here's an interesting article about the drop in violent crime across the nation tied to the reduction of lead in the environment. Only it didn't' happen here in Detroit where you'd think our industries smokestacks belching out lead, polluting the soil. Perhaps Detroit is one huge brownfield.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070701073.html

**getmoore** · January-11-13, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by eno

Here's an interesting article about the drop in violent crime across the nation tied to the reduction of lead in the environment. Only it didn't' happen here in Detroit where you'd think our industries smokestacks belching out lead, polluting the soil. Perhaps Detroit is one huge brownfield.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070701073.html

Very interesting!!!! I know of two people who had high lead levels as kids because I remember their families having lawsuits.
BOTH of them have been in and out of jail for years! Hmmmm...

**Dexlin** · January-11-13, 08:58 AM

Brizee,

Probably a conversation best had in-house lest you empower the wrong people. I know you mean well, but you should be cognizant of the fact that others don't, and you should probably take that into account in the future. You've been her long enough to know how this ends; I guess to be more blunt, I think what I'm saying is that you're question begging for a trolling in the type of company an internet messageboard keeps unless you open this question up a bit.

I mean, first you narrow down Detroiters to black people in general, and then make some off-handed comment about black women in the specific, and you expect people less well-meaning than yourself to behave themselves? Really? Let's not be so naive.

**webband1** · January-11-13, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by eno

Here's an interesting article about the drop in violent crime across the nation tied to the reduction of lead in the environment. Only it didn't' happen here in Detroit where you'd think our industries smokestacks belching out lead, polluting the soil. Perhaps Detroit is one huge brownfield.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070701073.html

Here's an article from the Freep that details high lead poisoning issues.
http://www.freep.com/article/2010051...rning-DPS-kids

And this map accompanying the article is amazing to look at.
http://www.freep.com/article/2010051...oods-over-time

**getmoore** · January-11-13, 09:41 AM

I wonder if the authors of the Detroit Future City know about this lead poisoning factor. The planning for banks of trees to help with toxins and so on. I'd love to know what the lead levels of our incarcerated population is. This could be the brunt of our crime problem.

**brizee** · January-11-13, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Brizee,

Probably a conversation best had in-house lest you empower the wrong people. I know you mean well, but you should be cognizant of the fact that others don't, and you should probably take that into account in the future. You've been her long enough to know how this ends; I guess to be more blunt, I think what I'm saying is that you're question begging for a trolling in the type of company an internet messageboard keeps unless you open this question up a bit.

I mean, first you narrow down Detroiters to black people in general, and then make some off-handed comment about black women in the specific, and you expect people less well-meaning than yourself to behave themselves? Really? Let's not be so naive.

It's a sincere question.

And the usual suspects haven't shown up in this thread, and I'd ignore their posts like I do 99% of the time anyway.

As for the black women thing...I sting cause I love.