2 charged with killing a deer in Warren; mayor outraged

**poobert** · December-27-12, 08:33 AM

A non-story[[except to Fouts) except to file under the "oddity" section [[along with Fouts)

http://www.freep.com/article/20121227/NEWS04/312270127/2-charged-with-killing-of-a-deer-in-Warren-mayor-outraged-calls-animal-domesticated?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

Uhhh...come again?

"I will be sitting in the courtroom to be certain they pay for their crimes...I consider deer in our city a domesticated animal..."

No. Incorrect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication

Meanwhile:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2012121220054

In a city where violent crime and blight are becoming commonplace you think that fruitcake could find something else to get his neck-screws in a twist about.

**Honky Tonk** · December-27-12, 08:42 AM

"I consider deer in our city a domesticated animal because [[of) their tameness and the joy they bring to observers, especially children," Fouts' statement said.

Ok,I suddenly don't think Bing is such a bad deal.

**rb336** · December-27-12, 09:51 AM

He didn't say that deer are domesticated, he said he considers them domesticated. A common misconception about tameness.

Deer are hazards in urban areas because they carry diseases, tics, etc. that are harmful to domestic animals and people, not to mention the increased risk of accidents. Still, hunting isn't usually legal in urban/suburban settings

**Hermod** · December-27-12, 09:57 AM

A man who considers himself to be the mayor of a posh suburban community trying to cover the reality that he is rapidly becoming the mayor of a blighted inner-city community.

**Gistok** · December-27-12, 10:10 AM

Apparently the "deer in the headlight" comment is lost on Fouts. Deer cause about 1/4 million motor vehicle accidents a year, and account for about 200 human deaths annually.

The guys should get fined, but really... Fouts does his usual grandstanding...

But this comment of his is disturbing... "I will be sitting in the courtroom to be certain they pay for their crimes." I think he should stick to his job and not try and sway the Judicial process...

**cla1945** · December-27-12, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

In a city where violent crime and blight are becoming commonplace you think that fruitcake could find something else to get his neck-screws in a twist about.

I take exception with this remark. Warren doesn't have violent crime like Detroit has and there is blight in every city and suburb, and that's not the mayor's fault in Warren...he addresses blight like no mayor I've ever encountered.

I am not afraid to walk my streets day or night, ride my bike, walk to the mailbox, walk anywhere in Warren, [[exception is South Warren, very close to Detroit) unlike Detroit. Fouts may be quirky, but he gets the job done when it comes to calls about blight, broken street lights, police protection, fire protection, neighbor problems, snow removal. I have never seen any mayor in Detroit from the time I remember a mayor [[Jerome P. Cavanaugh), that has called on people to discuss problems personally like Fouts does.

Regarding the deer problem, there is an 8 point buck in the woods between 14 and 15 Mile Road between Hayes and Utica road. During hunting season, should this deer be killed? They are certainly not domesticated animals but they cause no harm to people. These two so called "Hunters" should be punished, getting the maximum sentence any judge can give them.

**poobert** · December-27-12, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I take exception with this remark. Warren doesn't have violent crime like Detroit has and there is blight in every city and suburb, and that's not the mayor's fault in Warren...he addresses blight like no mayor I've ever encountered.

I am not afraid to walk my streets day or night, ride my bike, walk to the mailbox, walk anywhere in Warren, [[exception is South Warren, very close to Detroit) unlike Detroit. Fouts may be quirky, but he gets the job done when it comes to calls about blight, broken street lights, police protection, fire protection, neighbor problems, snow removal. I have never seen any mayor in Detroit from the time I remember a mayor [[Jerome P. Cavanaugh), that has called on people to discuss problems personally like Fouts does.

Regarding the deer problem, there is an 8 point buck in the woods between 14 and 15 Mile Road between Hayes and Utica road. During hunting season, should this deer be killed? They are certainly not domesticated animals but they cause no harm to people. These two so called "Hunters" should be punished, getting the maximum sentence any judge can give them.

You can take all the exceptions you like, but the "unlike Detroit" addendum doesn't make someplace necessarily safe or desirable.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...-due-in-court/

Grisly stories like this are becoming much more commonplace and Warren has a higher crime rate than Michigan or the national average. Couple that with lackluster housing stock, mediocre schools, and low housing prices - who does that tell you is going to move to Warren? Those with means and stability or those without means but plenty of problems?

**jerrytimes** · December-27-12, 01:03 PM

Tell him how much of an idiot he is.

James R. Fouts
Mayor of Warren
One City Square Suite 215
Warren, MI 48093
[[586) 574-4520
mayor@cityofwarren.org

Shollin · December-27-12, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I take exception with this remark. Warren doesn't have violent crime like Detroit has and there is blight in every city and suburb, and that's not the mayor's fault in Warren...he addresses blight like no mayor I've ever encountered.

I am not afraid to walk my streets day or night, ride my bike, walk to the mailbox, walk anywhere in Warren, [[exception is South Warren, very close to Detroit) unlike Detroit. Fouts may be quirky, but he gets the job done when it comes to calls about blight, broken street lights, police protection, fire protection, neighbor problems, snow removal. I have never seen any mayor in Detroit from the time I remember a mayor [[Jerome P. Cavanaugh), that has called on people to discuss problems personally like Fouts does.

Regarding the deer problem, there is an 8 point buck in the woods between 14 and 15 Mile Road between Hayes and Utica road. During hunting season, should this deer be killed? They are certainly not domesticated animals but they cause no harm to people. These two so called "Hunters" should be punished, getting the maximum sentence any judge can give them.

That's poobert for you. If someone does the same thing about Detroit, he'll jump all over you, but he continues to insult and attack Macomb county and especially Warren, or War'n like he likes to call it. See, he has a degree from the prestigious Wayne State which makes him better than "Bubba Spray Cheese" from Macomb county. Violent crime has no become commonplace in Warren, if anything it has decreased slightly. Warren also has a blight hotline that will respond to blight issues unlike Detroit. He also doesn't consider that most of Warren's crime is centered in south Warren along 8 Mile, committed mostly by Detroiters and former Detroiters who have moved into Warren. Fouts is a bit eccentric, but Warren at least is relatively safe, has police and firefighters who will respond in a reasonable time, is at least proactive in trying to stop blight, actually has streetlights that work, and actually has a national retailer within its city limits.

Here is the crime detail for Warren. As you can see, Warren is about dead average in crime. Roberries, Murders, rapes all are slightly lower than the were 5-10 years ago.

Shollin · December-27-12, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

You can take all the exceptions you like, but the "unlike Detroit" addendum doesn't make someplace necessarily safe or desirable.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...-due-in-court/

Grisly stories like this are becoming much more commonplace and Warren has a higher crime rate than Michigan or the national average. Couple that with lackluster housing stock, mediocre schools, and low housing prices - who does that tell you is going to move to Warren? Those with means and stability or those without means but plenty of problems?

Former Detroiters and living near 8 Mile. It's a shame Detroit is ruining everything that touches it.

**cla1945** · December-27-12, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

You can take all the exceptions you like, but the "unlike Detroit" addendum doesn't make someplace necessarily safe or desirable.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...-due-in-court/

Grisly stories like this are becoming much more commonplace and Warren has a higher crime rate than Michigan or the national average. Couple that with lackluster housing stock, mediocre schools, and low housing prices - who does that tell you is going to move to Warren? Those with means and stability or those without means but plenty of problems?

I'd sure like to know where you got those statistics.

One "grisly" crime in Warren [[the actors were all from Detroit), does not constitute an unsafe or undesirable City. 4 and 5 murders daily constitute an unsafe city.

**jerrytimes** · December-27-12, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I'd sure like to know where you got those statistics.

One "grisly" crime in Warren [[the actors were all from Detroit), does not constitute an unsafe or undesirable City. 4 and 5 murders daily constitute an unsafe city.

I laugh when Detroiters enjoy crime stats from the suburbs. It doesn't make sense to me at all. I live in Roseville and they publish info about the bigger crimes that happen here and Eastpointe and way to often in the story its says that the suspect was from south of 8 mile. Crime still happened here though.

Shollin · December-27-12, 01:35 PM

No surprise the worst areas of Warren are along Detroit.

**Bobl** · December-27-12, 01:47 PM

Years ago, two non-thinking employees were caught "hunting" deer on the G.M. Tech Center property. As I remember, they were fined heavily and lost their jobs and retirement benefits.

Shollin · December-27-12, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bobl

Years ago, two non-thinking employees were caught "hunting" deer on the G.M. Tech Center property. As I remember, they were fined heavily and lost their jobs and retirement benefits.

I remember that. I had a relative who worked at the Tech Center at that time. Funny thing is, if it was Detroit the property would still be vacant. At least Warren did something with it.

**ElbertHanks** · December-27-12, 01:53 PM

I am all for punishing people who violate hunting laws. Particularly, morons who use rifles in highly urban areas. However, giving them a maximum sentence is just plain stupid and a colossal waste of finite resources. Take the meat and trophy. Forfeit the weapons used. Suspend their hunting priviliges and fine them. Enough said.

Anyone who drives around the midwest knows there is a deer problem and that it has been increasing overtime. I drove through Indiana and Kentucky with my family recently and so many deer carcasses lined the roads that we quickly lost count of the numbers. A long term decline in hunting coupled with a lack of natural predators seem top be the root cause. I don't know anything about Warren's current mayor. But he is dead wrong on this issue. Treat the deer like cute fuzzy domesticated bambi's and it is only a matter of time before you have unsustainable numbers coupled with disease and/ or mass starvation. Not to mention a few driving fatalities. Then you end up hiring professionals to cull the herd and pay a pretty penny for their services. This has actually happened in suburban Chicago.

**Wintersmommy** · December-27-12, 03:14 PM

I routinely see a herd [[if that is the correct term ) of deer at 14& Mound. About 8-10 of them eat in a field near the bank at dusk during the summer. Once i was running at the community center with my dog who went nuts. I stopped and looked around and across the red run drain from us was a LARGE buck with a full rack [[not sure how many points). I have also had a deer cross in front of my car at Chicago & Mound road. It was the craziest thing, deer just walked in front of the stopped cars at a red light there, he was in in the cross walk.

**detroitsgwenivere** · December-27-12, 03:34 PM

Here's an interesting take on this years hunting season....and MI hunting in general:

http://www.huntingclub.com/connect/forums/aft/194084

And maybe the deer aren't really the problem:

http://www.iiminfo.org/CONSUMERS/Dee...2/Default.aspx

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=340626

http://www.miwildlife.org/h-urbansprawl.asp

**Gistok** · December-27-12, 03:44 PM

Thanks for the links... that's a lot of car/deer accidents happening in Michigan. Maybe it will take a car/deer accident human fatality to show Fouts that Bambi may be part of the problem. Warren is not exactly Exurbia... and having a resident deer population is a ticking time bomb for future trouble... especially if the herd grows in the future.

I wonder how he would have reacted had someone gotten killed in an accident in his city... bet he would have changed his tune...

**detroitsgwenivere** · December-27-12, 04:07 PM

I've noticed the wildlife presence increasing in the urban center for years, everything from deer, hawks, muskrat, etc. I totally enjoy it, but i believe that building out while allowing the center to revert back to nature is only pushing deer farther into areas where they can become vulnerable, and put less experienced drivers at risk.

I love Bambi as much as Fouts, and it's OK that he wants them to hang around Warren so people can enjoy them. As long as he's also willing to spend the money needed to implement safeguards on the roads that help to reduce the accidents that are sure to come with the deers' increased presence. Can't have deer protection and not people protection where people are supposed to be [[because I don't consider Warren sprawl).

And since when does Fouts call the shots in the court room? Did this guy really just get quoted by the local press saying that he intended to influence the judge's ruling in this matter? Isn't there something unethical about this, or am I assuming too much?

**Honky Tonk** · December-27-12, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I've noticed the wildlife presence increasing in the urban center for years, everything from deer, hawks, muskrat, etc. I totally enjoy it, but i believe that building out while allowing the center to revert back to nature is only pushing deer farther into areas where they can become vulnerable, and put less experienced drivers at risk.

I love Bambi as much as Fouts, and it's OK that he wants them to hang around Warren so people can enjoy them. As long as he's also willing to spend the money needed to implement safeguards on the roads that help to reduce the accidents that are sure to come with the deers' increased presence. Can't have deer protection and not people protection where people are supposed to be [[because I don't consider Warren sprawl).

And since when does Fouts call the shots in the court room? Did this guy really just get quoted by the local press saying that he intended to influence the judge's ruling in this matter? Isn't there something unethical about this, or am I assuming too much?

I think this radio listener sums it up in a nutshell......

http://fox4kc.com/2012/10/18/woman-m...ts-them-moved/

**Jimaz** · December-27-12, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I think this radio listener sums it up in a nutshell......

http://fox4kc.com/2012/10/18/woman-m...ts-them-moved/

That was hilarious. She seriously thinks the deer are reading the crossing signs to determine where they should cross.

**Gistok** · December-27-12, 05:07 PM

Honky Tonk.... thanks for that..... Priceless!!

I think it's time to cull the herd.... and I'm not talking deer....

**ElbertHanks** · December-27-12, 05:13 PM

Gistok.... Doesn't the herd tend to thin itself?

**Gistok** · December-27-12, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

And since when does Fouts call the shots in the court room? Did this guy really just get quoted by the local press saying that he intended to influence the judge's ruling in this matter? Isn't there something unethical about this, or am I assuming too much?

That was my exact point Detroitsgwenivere.... if he's there to intimidate a judge... sounds like a great reason for an appeal to a higher court should the defendants get hit with severe penalties.