Do People Hate Detroit?

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Seems like many here will judge them as being so by virtue of their continued residence in the 'burbs.

You know, the minute you say there are white racists in metro Detroit, some white people seem to hear, instead, "All white residents of metro Detroit are racist." I've never seen anything like it. Not only do some people consistently misinterpret discussions of white racism, they then squarely blame those who WOULD discuss it based on their own misinterpretations of it ...

Shollin · December-27-12, 04:17 PM

Well how can you argue with anecdotal evidence like i've met them? Nearly 4 million people live in the metro Detroit suburbs but because Detroitnerd has a met a few racists in the suburbs, he can throw around these blanket statements as fact. Gee, let me play this game. As a white person living in Harper Woods who mingled with black Detroit residents, I can tell you most of Detroit is hostile towards the suburbs and white people. Now where does that leave us? I know there are black racist in Detroit. You know why? Becuase I've met them.

**MidTownMs** · December-27-12, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Are you an artist, MidTownMs?

That's a very good question because many artists move to New Mexico. But no I'm not an artist. But it's easy to see how the beauty of New Mexico would appeal to an artist.

**Honky Tonk** · December-27-12, 04:21 PM

Attachment 17651

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

See how this works? When you want to discuss racism, somebody is right there to barge in, laughing, about how what you're really doing is playing the "race card." Never mind that "playing the race card" has been, primarily, historically, a term for white people appealing to the racism of other white people. No, now anytime you want to have a frank discussion of racism in the United States, no sooner have you uttered your intentions before some chortling, red-faced joker sidles up and starts prefacing his remarks by saying, "Now, I know this isn't politically correct but ..." haw haw haw

See, nobody said that. This is called taking somebody's point [["There is a lot of white racism in metro Detroit suburbs") and trying to twist it into something that's easier to argue against [["All of Detroit's problems is [sic] racism").

Oh, yes. It's like a buzzword when you don't take it seriously, or when you intend to derail other people's intention to take the subject seriously and look at it.

First of all, this is a blanket generalization that cannot be true.

Second, to say that racism played NO role in people leaving Detroit and choosing to live in all-white suburbs is ridiculous. Of course a lot of the people who've left Detroit have been racists. Does it matter whether they're the hood-wearing, I'm-going-to-burn-a-cross-on-your-lawn kind or the kind who simply loathes and fears living around black people?

You're right there. They don't bare responsibility. They bear it. You have a struggling city that's 3/4 white and pretty well off and 1/4 black and not-so-well off. The white people take their resources, their income, their taxes, their institutions, their churches, their neighborhood watches, their significant capital, pick it up, and move beyond the city line. Now the city has to exist without the benefit of their resources, income, taxes, institutions, churches, neighborhood watches and capital. What did they think would happen? If residents of choice leave a city, they know damn well they're leaving it to people who can't properly afford to care for it. That's just simple economics. So that's why I imagine a lot of older people who left Detroit in the 1960s vent so much rage. They look at their old neighborhood and can't blame themselves, so they blame the "other." Anger disguises their shame and turns it into white rage.

Is that so? What's your evidence for that? A lot of the time it's just crossed signals I find, not hostility. From both sides.

Here we go.....

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Well how can you argue with anecdotal evidence like i've met them? Nearly 4 million people live in the metro Detroit suburbs but because Detroitnerd has a met a few racists in the suburbs, he can throw around these blanket statements as fact.

Shollin, seriously. What's your argument?

One the one hand, you would seem to be arguing that white people in metro Detroit are relatively immune to racism.

On the other hand, you're saying that black people in Detroit are racist and hate white people.

Is that your argument?

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 04:27 PM

Honky Tonk: Tell me about it. All you have to do is bring up white racism in the context of metro Detroit and the usual suspects all come out.

"What racism? A guy would have to be a racist at heart to think there was such racism! White people aren't racist! Black people are racist! Why are you playing the race card?"

Anyway, thanks for the "Not this BS again" meme. That's one of my favorites.

**bailey** · December-27-12, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Honky Tonk: Tell me about it. All you have to do is bring up white racism in the context of metro Detroit and the usual suspects all come out.

"What racism? A guy would have to be a racist at heart to think there was such racism! White people aren't racist! Black people are racist! Why are you playing the race card?"

Anyway, thanks for the "Not this BS again" meme. That's one of my favorites.

I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are racists in metro Detroit, however, what many seem to obsessively posit here is that there is no justification for living in the suburbs OTHER than racism.

When people say they prefer walk-able neighborhoods with low crime and fast response from PD/FD/City services...it's alleged what they really mean is they don't want to live near black people. Good Schools? Don't want their kid going to school with black people. Don't unequivocally support "mass transit" proposals no matter how stupid and destined to fail? Just a racist suburbanite that doesn't want Detroiters to be able to leave Detroit. Question the support through tax subsidies for Museums/zoos/exhibition halls that perhaps one's community has little use for or is geographically remote from? Well, just a bunch of mouth breathing racists who hate culture...and black people.

I mean the schtick is pretty tired.

**Honky Tonk** · December-27-12, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are racists in metro Detroit, however, what many seem to obsessively posit here is that there is no justification for living in the suburbs OTHER than racism.

When people say they prefer walk-able neighborhoods with low crime and fast response from PD/FD/City services...it's alleged what they really mean is they don't want to live near black people. Good Schools? Don't want their kid going to school with black people. Don't unequivocally support "mass transit" proposals no matter how stupid and destined to fail? Just a racist suburbanite that doesn't want Detroiters to be able to leave Detroit. Question the support through tax subsidies for Museums/zoos/exhibition hals that perhaps one's community has little use for or is geographically remote from? Well, just a bunch of mouth breathing racists who hate culture...and black people.

I mean the shtick is pretty tired.

Please see Post # 29.

Shollin · December-27-12, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Shollin, seriously. What's your argument?

One the one hand, you would seem to be arguing that white people in metro Detroit are relatively immune to racism.

On the other hand, you're saying that black people in Detroit are racist and hate white people.

Is that your argument?

The post you quoted was me trying to sort out your anecdotal evidence that a lot of people in the suburbs are racist and hostile towards Detroit.

**canuck** · December-27-12, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are racists in metro Detroit...

I mean the schtick is pretty tired.

I don't think anyone has ever denied walk-able neighborhoods with low crime.I don't think anyone has ever denied they don't want to live near black people.I don't think anyone has ever denied Good Schools. I don't think anyone has ever denied "mass transit". I don't think anyone has ever denied how stupid...I don't think anyone has ever denied that it is destined to fail. I don't think anyone has ever denied a racist suburbanite. I don't think anyone has ever denied to be able to leave Detroit. I don't think anyone has ever denied support through tax subsidies. I don't think anyone has ever denied halls that perhaps one's community has little use for. I don't think anyone has ever denied a bunch of mouth breathing racists. I don't think anyone has ever denied culture. I don't think anyone has ever denied black people.

I mean the schtick is pretty tired.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are racists in metro Detroit, however, what many seem to obsessively posit here is that there is no justification for living in the suburbs OTHER than racism.

Nah. I've been pretty emphatic on that. I think, perusing this thread, you'll find I've said that several times. What can I say? Sometimes a motherfucker won't listen?

But then, if y'all didn't intentionally misunderstand it so BADLY, how would you be able to then sculpt it into the "schtick" that you then label as tired?

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The post you quoted was me trying to sort out your anecdotal evidence that a lot of people in the suburbs are racist and hostile towards Detroit.

But are those your genuine feelings, Shollin? That white suburbanites are almost completely nonracist? And that black people in Detroit are largely racist and loathe whites? Just trying to get a handle on this.

Shollin · December-27-12, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

But are those your genuine feelings, Shollin? That white suburbanites are almost completely nonracist? And that black people in Detroit are largely racist and loathe whites? Just trying to get a handle on this.

My argument is that people hate Detroit because of the epic crime rate, the lack of basic services, and the ruined neighborhoods.

Conversely as a Detroiter, you are doing a bang up job confirming that Detroiters despise suburbanites and blame them for the decline of Detroit.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

My argument is that people hate Detroit because of the epic crime rate, the lack of basic services, and the ruined neighborhoods.

Conversely as a Detroiter, you are doing a bang up job confirming that Detroiters despise suburbanites and blame them for the decline of Detroit.

Yeah, you know, you didn't answer my questions. Is it true that you believe that most white people in the suburbs aren't racist and that many black people in the city are?

Shollin · December-27-12, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Yeah, you know, you didn't answer my questions. Is it true that you believe that most white people in the suburbs aren't racist and that many black people in the city are?

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? For every "racist" in the suburbs, there's at least one in Detroit. Short answer, yes.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? For every "racist" in the suburbs, there's at least one in Detroit. Short answer, yes.

No, I'm just trying to get a clarification on your earlier statements.

So you think that racism is more than five times as prevalent among blacks in the city as among whites in the suburbs?

Shollin · December-27-12, 06:01 PM

Who said five times? Before I answer, how about you put a percentage on the white suburbanites who are racist since we are playing this game.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Who said five times? Before I answer, how about you put a percentage on the white suburbanites who are racist since we are playing this game.

Well, it stands to reason.

There are 700,000 residents in Detroit. At least 600,000 of them are black.

There are 4,280,000 residents of suburban Detroit. At least 4,000,000 of them are white.

So, if for every urban black racist there is a suburban racist counterpart, it would figure that black racism is at least five times more concentrated in the city and five times the total percentage of white racists in the suburbs.

OK, I believe I understand how you feel now.

Shollin · December-27-12, 06:09 PM

You didn't answer my question.

**Richard** · December-27-12, 06:26 PM

And this brief intermission was brought to you originally by Chester Powers and sung by the Youngbloods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XyCbIJGKY

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-12, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

And this brief intermission was brought to you originally by Chester Powers and sung by the Youngbloods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XyCbIJGKY

Awesome. Love it, Richard.

**Jimaz** · December-27-12, 09:08 PM

The problem with being accused of being in denial is that it's equally frustrating whether or not you actually are. "I fervently deny that I am in denial!"

The lady doth protest too much, methinks could be directed at anyone but I'm directing it at no one here. It just seems an appropriate principle to note in any passionate discussion.

**old guy** · December-27-12, 10:12 PM

I'm a bit confused about the title of this thread, Do people hate Detroit? Is this a question for people that live in Detroit, people that live in the surrounding area,or just people in general that live in other parts of the country or world? Reading the thread it sounds like it's questioning people in the surrounding area. Just curious, not sure I understand the premise of the question. Can you enlighten me?

**old guy** · December-27-12, 10:36 PM

It just seems like Strong dropped a vague question out there and then didn't follow up on it. I guess that if Detroiters think that people around the country hate them, I have a few views on that. But if it's a local thing, I guess I'm out.

**313WX** · December-27-12, 10:43 PM

I don't people hate Detroit, rather people hate what Detroit has become. The vast majority on this forum knew a Detroit that was always spoken in the same breath as cities such as New York and Chicago. To see what it has become now would fuel a lot of resentment. I mean, many Detroiters have to drive through miles of blight everyday where they once lived, walked around, shopped played and to see it all gone in such a short amount of town is devastating.

As far as how people across the country feel about the city, recently I think people feel so sorry for Detroit to the point where it's not evne worth joking about the city any more. People are also wondering what the heck is in Detroit and Michigan's water, given the condition Detroit [[the state's largest city) is in and the legislative actions that have taken place in Lansing.