Do People Hate Detroit?

[Strong]

I have posted a number of threads on this forum, trying to take a positive perspective in my views and in many instances all I get is negative feedback.
Detroit gets more than its share of negative media coverage.
Even many Detroiters talk negatively about the city and not just among other Detroiters but to whoever is listening.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that Detroit has and has had its share of problems but so has many other cities.
I heard the many nasty comments made about our Mayor Bing, when prior to his election so many people thought that he would do a great job. Now, many of those same people hate him.
We all know that great things are happening in our city, new development is everywhere, people are moving here, our housing market has gotten better, and despite the financial problems city employees still go to work and do their best given the circumstances.
So, I was wondering could more naysayers make a resolution to think and say more positive things in 2013.
If you were wondering, I didn't go anywhere, trying to finish my film, hoping for a early 2013 release, The Great Detroit coming soon.

[Shollin]

It's going to happen to every mayor of this city. It became clear when Dennis Archer was ran out of town. You have a city that's mostly on welfare. The people have no skills to get any sort of decent paying job. What is a mayor to do? If we bring jobs to the city, the population doesn't qualify for said jobs. Don't worry, when/if Mike Duggan gets elected, the city will still be in poverty and the city will still have a ridiculous crime rate and people will be bitching once again at the mayor. Its been going on for decades. It's time to face facts and manage expectations. Detroit is always going to have high poverty. It's always going to have high crime. It's population is never going to be 1.8 million again. What we need to do is manage the crime, bring some wealth back to the city, and try to slow the population loss.

[Strong]

You have a city that's mostly on welfare. The people have no skills to get any sort of decent paying job. What is a mayor to do? If we bring jobs to the city, the population doesn't qualify for said jobs. Don't worry, when/if Mike Duggan gets elected, the city will still be in poverty and the city will still have a ridiculous crime rate and people will be bitching once again at the mayor. Its been going on for decades. It's time to face facts and manage expectations. Detroit is always going to have high poverty. It's always going to have high crime. It's population is never going to be 1.8 million again. What we need to do is manage the crime, bring some wealth back to the city, and try to slow the population loss.

Do you think that the Detroiters are dumber, less motivated and more violent than in any other city?

[Richard]

Do you think that the Detroiters are dumber, less motivated and more violent than in any other city?

Is that not part of your responsibility to educate and motivate which in turn decreases the violence,when your film is ready will you show it at no charge to those less fortunate or to those who would not be able to purchase it ,will it be a motivational film to show those that they can rise above and have faith and let them know that it is not easy and there are alternatives to the violence?

There are facts and graphs and statistics all out there not in dispute the question is who does what to stem the tide?

[marshamusic]

I have posted a number of threads on this forum, trying to take a positive perspective in my views and in many instances all I get is negative feedback...............trying to finish my film, hoping for a early 2013 release, The Great Detroit coming soon.

Strong, I note that I have become acquainted with you at several events in Detroit, and have found you to be a nice man. I will take this opportunity that you have herein afforded me to say that yes, some people on this board do hate Detroit. Some hate Black People, and in particular, the Black people of Detroit. Those are the racists, who appear to be in the minority here.

But most of these posters are not racists, and they love Detroit, or what they remember about Detroit, or what they desire for Detroit. They do not hate Detroit, but hate what it has become for any number of reasons. They love the city in their own way, even from afar in the suburbs.

But what I am pretty sure that most of the folks here hate is a SHILLER. Someone who posts on message boards with continual, self-promoting mentions of products or projects. This is one of the reasons, I am certain, that responses to your posts about Detroit are often tepid, at best.

That being said, I wish to add this: For years I was the moderator for a couple of significant international online forums [[unrelated to Detroit) and shillers were immediately and unapologetically removed from posting - Game Over. As you know, I am a writer and blogger, but I do not feel it appropriate to unduly promote my current work or projects on these boards. In fact, I've never mentioned either. You have been very given wide berth here, as far as I can see.

If you are a part of this online group, without continually promoting endeavors of your own - and if it is a good production - your work will attract an audience, some of which will be from this Detroit Yes community. They will be the first to spread the word about its attributes. But to mention your film in most of your posts is disrespectful. Should you not do so, there might be more positive responses to your thoughts on the city that you post.

Back to your other issues; yes, there is often a refusal or inability of some here to see "positive" aspects of Detroit life. I, for one, am always on a mission to fight against the "invisibility" of non-pathological Detroit life - but one cannot be a Pollyanna about this city, either.

My comments to you are given with the best of intentions, with respect for your project and, most importantly, for the good of Detroit Yes. For shilling, whether open or surreptitious, whether innocently on-topic or not, if not restricted, can be the death of an online community.

[brizee]

Absolutely.

IRL and online people take sheer glee in the misery of both COD and it's citizens.

Other cities get empathy and understanding where Detroit gets scorn.

[KJ5]

Seems there's a fair share of people out there in the burbs who hate any part of Detroit that's not a sports venue or a casino. My mom asked my sister yet again if I was ever gonna move out to the suburbs. Not bloody likely, and I don't know why she's so obsessed with this.

[Honky Tonk]

Not bloody likely, and I don't know why she's so obsessed with this.

What will the neighbors say?

[MidTownMs]

Hate is a pretty strong word to describe my feelings about a city. I don't hate Detroit. What I hate is what Detroit has become. I hate that I lived in a city where I no longer felt safe. I hate that the people I voted for to make decisions that directly affected the quality of my life in Detroit turned out to be opportunists who only cared about the quality of their own lives. I hate that the services that I paid taxes for were not there when I needed them. I love Detroit but the quality of my life became more important than my love for Detroit and in early 2012 I left not just Detroit but the State of Michigan.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I hear you MMTM! The bold-faced justification of crime and corruption fueling the lack of safety bothers me greatly. And it's a crab in the barrel result. In some cases stolen goods just move from person to person, stolen, re-sold, stolen again, same people, or someone knowing of it... 'no snitchin' of course.

[Zacha341]

Sadly I do think some believe this to be so.

And BTW I don't particularly mind you promoting things you do. Others here promote what they are doing and involved in. I am happy however you are doing it less in the third-person narrative [[shiller) style......

Are you partnering with an existing film company regarding your upcoming film... are you engaging any of the educational institutions or resources?

Do you think that the Detroiters are dumber, less motivated and more violent than in any other city?

[Zacha341]

That's a tall order in a way... a 100% free showing that is. But not impossible if a partnership of some kind can be made. Even as tight as finances are there remain mentoring programs, and entities still out there reaching out to the community by way of film, arts, media and information - integrated in the creative, education and faith communities of the city. Sustainable, successful outreach with results are born of strategic partnerships which take time to grow and cultivate.

A certain level of cynicism is ok to me as there are cranks out there too - indeed there are many starts, but few finishes [[for a myriad of reasons). I try to engage where I can but I check a person out carefully before I invest my time.

Is that not part of your responsibility to educate and motivate which in turn decreases the violence,when your film is ready will you show it at no charge to those less fortunate or to those who would not be able to purchase it ,will it be a motivational film to show those that they can rise above and have faith and let them know that it is not easy and there are alternatives to the violence?

[carolcb]

If you don't mind me asking, what state did you go to, and do you miss Detroit/Michigan?

[Detroitnerd]

I used to laugh when I was a kid about Coleman Young saying Detroit was surrounded by "hostile suburbs."

But, I gotta say, 25 years later, after a lot of city living, yes, Detroit is surrounded by a lot of white racists who hate the city, its residents and rage against it as a kind of pastime.

I also think that, deep down, they know that they bear some responsibility for the way Detroit is. Rage is often shame disguised by anger.

This state of affairs is widely known and little discussed. Mention it and white crypto-racists start having fits because their narrative says that racism is over. It ended when Barack Obama was elected, or when Reagan authorized Martin Luther King Day, or somewhere in between, when the first black character appeared on the TV sitcom "Friends."

[MidTownMs]

If you don't mind me asking, what state did you go to, and do you miss Detroit/Michigan?

If this question is directed to me I moved to the beautiful state of New Mexico the Land of Enchantment. There are so many things I miss about Detroit and Michigan but there are more things that I don't miss. But when I sit on my front porch in Albuquerque and look at this beautiful sunset [[picture below) I can honestly say I don't miss Detroit or Michigan that much.

[Shollin]

I used to laugh when I was a kid about Coleman Young saying Detroit was surrounded by "hostile suburbs."

But, I gotta say, 25 years later, after a lot of city living, yes, Detroit is surrounded by a lot of white racists who hate the city, its residents and rage against it as a kind of pastime.

I also think that, deep down, they know that they bear some responsibility for the way Detroit is. Rage is often shame disguised by anger.

This state of affairs is widely known and little discussed. Mention it and white crypto-racists start having fits because their narrative says that racism is over. It ended when Barack Obama was elected, or when Reagan authorized Martin Luther King Day, or somewhere in between, when the first black character appeared on the TV sitcom "Friends."

LOL. Everyone wants to throw around the race card. All of Detroit's problems is racism. It's like a buzzword around here. People left Detroit and have hostility towards Detroit because of the epic crime and that crime is spilling over the borders and into the suburbs. And no, deep down they don't bare responsibility. People in Detroit are every bit as hostile towards suburbanites or outsiders. What responsibility does the suburbanites bare? I'm tired of seeing these criminals be made out to victims of the white man. Part of Detroit's problem is everyone thinks everything is racism.

[carolcb]

Wow, that is a nice view. Thank you for answering. I still want to move back, and I have been gone forever. I honestly think people are nicer in Michigan; yesh, I know that sounds strange, but that is the way I feel about it. Back to that living in the past thing. I wish you the best in Albuquerque. My son spent two years in Santa Fe and it was beautiful.

[MidTownMs]

Wow, that is a nice view. Thank you for answering. I still want to move back, and I have been gone forever. I honestly think people are nicer in Michigan; yesh, I know that sounds strange, but that is the way I feel about it. Back to that living in the past thing. I wish you the best in Albuquerque. My son spent two years in Santa Fe and it was beautiful.

Thank you. I started out in Sante Fe for three months and moved to Albuquerque in July.

[Honky Tonk]

Thank you. I started out in Sante Fe for three months and moved to Albuquerque in July.

Are you an artist, MidTownMs?

[Detroitnerd]

LOL. Everyone wants to throw around the race card.

See how this works? When you want to discuss racism, somebody is right there to barge in, laughing, about how what you're really doing is playing the "race card." Never mind that "playing the race card" has been, primarily, historically, a term for white people appealing to the racism of other white people. No, now anytime you want to have a frank discussion of racism in the United States, no sooner have you uttered your intentions before some chortling, red-faced joker sidles up and starts prefacing his remarks by saying, "Now, I know this isn't politically correct but ..." haw haw haw

All of Detroit's problems is racism.

See, nobody said that. This is called taking somebody's point [["There is a lot of white racism in metro Detroit suburbs") and trying to twist it into something that's easier to argue against [["All of Detroit's problems is [sic] racism").

It's like a buzzword around here.

Oh, yes. It's like a buzzword when you don't take it seriously, or when you intend to derail other people's intention to take the subject seriously and look at it.

People left Detroit and have hostility towards Detroit because of the epic crime and that crime is spilling over the borders and into the suburbs.

First of all, this is a blanket generalization that cannot be true.

Second, to say that racism played NO role in people leaving Detroit and choosing to live in all-white suburbs is ridiculous. Of course a lot of the people who've left Detroit have been racists. Does it matter whether they're the hood-wearing, I'm-going-to-burn-a-cross-on-your-lawn kind or the kind who simply loathes and fears living around black people?

And no, deep down they don't bare responsibility.

You're right there. They don't bare responsibility. They bear it. You have a struggling city that's 3/4 white and pretty well off and 1/4 black and not-so-well off. The white people take their resources, their income, their taxes, their institutions, their churches, their neighborhood watches, their significant capital, pick it up, and move beyond the city line. Now the city has to exist without the benefit of their resources, income, taxes, institutions, churches, neighborhood watches and capital. What did they think would happen? If residents of choice leave a city, they know damn well they're leaving it to people who can't properly afford to care for it. That's just simple economics. So that's why I imagine a lot of older people who left Detroit in the 1960s vent so much rage. They look at their old neighborhood and can't blame themselves, so they blame the "other." Anger disguises their shame and turns it into white rage.

People in Detroit are every bit as hostile towards suburbanites or outsiders.

Is that so? What's your evidence for that? A lot of the time it's just crossed signals I find, not hostility. From both sides.

[bailey]

You're right there. They don't bare responsibility. They bear it. You have a struggling city that's 3/4 white and pretty well off and 1/4 black and not-so-well off. The white people take their resources, their income, their taxes, their institutions, their churches, their neighborhood watches, their significant capital, pick it up, and move beyond the city line. Now the city has to exist without the benefit of their resources, income, taxes, institutions, churches, neighborhood watches and capital. What did they think would happen? If residents of choice leave a city, they know damn well they're leaving it to people who can't properly afford to care for it. That's just simple economics. So that's why I imagine a lot of older people who left Detroit in the 1960s vent so much rage. They look at their old neighborhood and can't blame themselves, so they blame the "other." Anger disguises their shame and turns it into white rage.
.

Ok, so you've covered the octo & septuagenarians that actually did live in the CoD and could reasonably be found to be complicit in Detroit's demise by removing their capital from the equation, but there are at least two generations of suburban dwellers that have never lived in Detroit.

Do the kids and grand-kids bear the sins of the parents?

[Shollin]

See how this works? When you want to discuss racism, somebody is right there to barge in, laughing, about how what you're really doing is playing the "race card." Never mind that "playing the race card" has been, primarily, historically, a term for white people appealing to the racism of other white people. No, now anytime you want to have a frank discussion of racism in the United States, no sooner have you uttered your intentions before some chortling, red-faced joker sidles up and starts prefacing his remarks by saying, "Now, I know this isn't politically correct but ..." haw haw haw



See, nobody said that. This is called taking somebody's point [["There is a lot of white racism in metro Detroit suburbs") and trying to twist it into something that's easier to argue against [["All of Detroit's problems is [sic] racism").



Oh, yes. It's like a buzzword when you don't take it seriously, or when you intend to derail other people's intention to take the subject seriously and look at it.



First of all, this is a blanket generalization that cannot be true.

Second, to say that racism played NO role in people leaving Detroit and choosing to live in all-white suburbs is ridiculous. Of course a lot of the people who've left Detroit have been racists. Does it matter whether they're the hood-wearing, I'm-going-to-burn-a-cross-on-your-lawn kind or the kind who simply loathes and fears living around black people?



You're right there. They don't bare responsibility. They bear it. You have a struggling city that's 3/4 white and pretty well off and 1/4 black and not-so-well off. The white people take their resources, their income, their taxes, their institutions, their churches, their neighborhood watches, their significant capital, pick it up, and move beyond the city line. Now the city has to exist without the benefit of their resources, income, taxes, institutions, churches, neighborhood watches and capital. What did they think would happen? If residents of choice leave a city, they know damn well they're leaving it to people who can't properly afford to care for it. That's just simple economics. So that's why I imagine a lot of older people who left Detroit in the 1960s vent so much rage. They look at their old neighborhood and can't blame themselves, so they blame the "other." Anger disguises their shame and turns it into white rage.



Is that so? What's your evidence for that? A lot of the time it's just crossed signals I find, not hostility. From both sides.

Wait, so you talk about blanket statements, and yet you say and I quote "Detroit is surrounded by a lot of white racists who hate the city, its residents and rage against it as a kind of pastime" Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black or is that racist? You also go on to say of course a lot of people have left Detroit are racists. You throw around these blanket statements without any evidence and require me to show evidence? You make accusation after accusation of white people being racist. Keep playing the victim. Blacks in Detroit in the 60's earned higher wages and had a higher home ownership than most other major cities. Welcome to the 60's. Income inequality and segregation was the think back then. You think Detroit was the only city to lose population? All cities from Chicago to New York to Philadelphia to Cleveland to Pittsburgh to Minneapolis to St Louis to Boston to Milwaukee all lost population as the migration to suburbs took full flight by the 60's. People who left Detroit for better employment and less crime I suppose are racist to you?

[Detroitnerd]

Ok, so you've covered the octo & septuagenarians that actually did live in the CoD and could reasonably be found to be complicit in Detroit's demise by removing their capital from the equation, but there are at least two generations of suburban dwellers that have never lived in Detroit.

Do the kids and grand-kids bear the sins of the parents?

I dunno? Are they racists or not?

[bailey]

I dunno? Are they racists or not?

Seems like many here will judge them as being so by virtue of their continued residence in the 'burbs.

[Detroitnerd]

Wait, so you talk about blanket statements, and yet you say and I quote "Detroit is surrounded by a lot of white racists who hate the city, its residents and rage against it as a kind of pastime" Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black or is that racist?

No. Because it's true. A blanket statement would be: "Detroit is surrounded EXCLUSIVELY BY white racists, all of whom hate the city... " Can you tell the difference between saying there are white racists in the suburbs [[a is a subset of b) and all suburban whites are racists [[a=b)?

You also go on to say of course a lot of people have left Detroit are racists. You throw around these blanket statements without any evidence and require me to show evidence? You make accusation after accusation of white people being racist.

Well, yeah. Sure. I've met them. I've talked with them. I have met enough white suburban people saying racist things to conclude that many suburban whites are racists -- N-bomb-dropping, black-joke-telling, prejudice-spreading racists. And, in response to that, what is YOUR evidence that urban blacks are racist?

Keep playing the victim.

Not sure how I can do that, Shollin. I'm white. I'm a WHITE man. How the fuck is talking frankly about racism PLAYING THE VICTIM?

Blacks in Detroit in the 60's earned higher wages and had a higher home ownership than most other major cities. Welcome to the 60's. Income inequality and segregation was the think back then. You think Detroit was the only city to lose population? All cities from Chicago to New York to Philadelphia to Cleveland to Pittsburgh to Minneapolis to St Louis to Boston to Milwaukee all lost population as the migration to suburbs took full flight by the 60's. People who left Detroit for better employment and less crime I suppose are racist to you?

Talk about moving heaven and earth to change a subject. Rather than admit that there is such a thing as a white racist in Detroit's suburbs, you'd rather pile on all this data? Why? Before you turn this into a class project, Shollin, I already know there are white racists in the Detroit suburbs. You know why?

It's because I've met them.