Only the little people must pay property taxes.

[Richard]

The narrow 58-49 vote came on a day when city records revealed the Ilitch companies owe more than $1.5 million in Detroit taxes on two parcels that make up Joe Louis Arena.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyuBGmNq


I like this part

"There is a dispute at hand here, but not a failure on anyone's part to pay or collect taxes. It is a business issue being worked out."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyuLN3n5

and also this one

The legislation, which Gov. Rick Snyder is expected to sign into law, lets the Ilitches apply for Detroit's Downtown Development Authority school property tax money that amounts to $12.8 million a year.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyulfpX5

Good thing the schools do not need the money.

so basically the property tax dispute comes from a new lease negotiation that has been going on for over two years but not resolved because of the uncertainty of the building the new arena ,so if they build the arena the city loses the $1.5 million in back taxes?

I had brought up the tax capture aspect in my hypothetical interurban thread and was told it would never happen because it had to get house approval and that would take years ,lol this guy did it in days.

The Red Wings have enjoyed what is considered the best lease arrangement of any National Hockey League team at Joe Louis. Olympia Entertainment has leased the hockey arena, Cobo Arena and an adjacent parking structure for $475,000 a year, while the city tossed in free police protection, landscaping and snow removal.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EywK98oS

I find it interesting how some are placed high on pedestal within the city and how they profess their love for the city and why they stick with it,but it always seems to boil down to its because of hundreds of millions in incentives or because its a free for all of doing business while the rest of the city suffers ,not to much to take pride in there.

Of course it gets even better when an attorney at Miller Canfield representing Ilitch Holdings.

[Gistok]

I think that Ilitch should pay off the tax bill for JLA and Cobo Arena... and continue to use them.... oh wait... Cobo Arena is being remodeled for convention use and has been unavailable for Ilitch to use for almost 2 years...

Is all of this not making sense to anyone else???

[Bham1982]

A billionaire like Ilitch obviously can't afford such outrageous taxation, [[amounting to less than a luxury Hamptons summer rental) and definitely needs more taxpayer-funded subsidies.

Clearly the man who has signed a half-billion in long-term Tigers contracts needs more public monies. How else can he afford a couple hundred grand in taxes on his downtown holdings?

[serpico]

Hell.. somebody had to pay for his hair.......

[downtownguy]

Hell.. somebody had to pay for his hair.......

He deserves to get his money refunded for that!

[downtownguy]

What a poorly written article. The first paragraph:

The Michigan House on Thursday approved legislation that will allow the Ilitch's companies to tap nearly $13 million in downtown tax money for a $650 million mixed use development.

How hard would it have been to say $13 million a year, which puts the amount of the subsidy in proper context to the proposed $650 million development? Sure, it appears later in the article, but the casual reader might not go that far. IMO, it is also extremely relevant that this is money currently slated for schools. But why include that in the first paragraph?

[Bham1982]

But why include that in the first paragraph?

Because both local papers have a pro-Ilitch agenda.

And I know times are tough for some in the newspaper business, but both papers are just ridiculously poorly written. The News in particular should probably just hang it up already. They're no better than some random community free weekly.

[detmsp]

I think that Ilitch should pay off the tax bill for JLA and Cobo Arena... and continue to use them.... oh wait... Cobo Arena is being remodeled for convention use and has been unavailable for Ilitch to use for almost 2 years...

Is all of this not making sense to anyone else???

The first thing I thought when I read about this is that Ilitch doesn't actually own JLA or Cobo, so why is he paying property taxes? Apparently that is exactly what Ilitch is wondering as well: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...O01/212130472/

[Bham1982]

The first thing I thought when I read about this is that Ilitch doesn't actually own JLA or Cobo, so why is he paying property taxes? Apparently that is exactly what Ilitch is wondering as well:

I'm pretty sure Ilitch is aware that non-owners pay property taxes on long-term leaseholds.

[DetroitPlanner]

I'm pretty sure Ilitch is aware that non-owners pay property taxes on long-term leaseholds.

That sir depends on the terms of the lease.

[401don]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Check out the last paragraph. Wings may use 2 million in repairs toward property taxes. Try that at home kids. Meanwhile Tigers fork over another 80 million for under .500 pitcher Sanchez.

[esp1986]

That sir depends on the terms of the lease.

And there is no lease. Since they are negotiating with the city, all of this is simply accruing.

They have said that $2 million has been spent on renovations... if they wanted a long term lease, i.e. 30 years, that would have been a cost paid by the owner to renovate the facility...

When they have an agreement in place, all those costs will be figured in and they will settle-up.

This amounts to no more than a circumstantial error. Under the old lease agreement, I recall there being a tax split between the city and Olympia. Typically, in a long-term lease case, the lessee would pay them. In this case, they didn't, and they are continuing to operate under the terms of the old agreement while a new one is being worked out.

One of the highlights of the old lease expiring was that the city could collect more rent, property taxes and more of the gate revenues...

Under the terms of the old lease, the tax rolls properly reflect this now being a taxable property. However, without a long term lease, the city is on the hook for that, which will likely be settled if/when they sign a new lease.

[Wesley Mouch]

Why do we jump to the conclusion that Ilitch is evading taxes -- based on a dispute with the City? I know there's a strong sentiment on this thread that anyone with money is evil -- but its not necessarily true that just because you're evil you must pay taxes you might not owe.

Ilitch is if nothing very visible and image-conscious. There are no doubt thousands of people with tax disputes with the city. There was another thread on this forum about income taxes being unfairly assessed.

With a differently written article, this thread might have been title 'City unfairly assesses Ilitch with bogus taxes'. That may be true here. We just don't really know. So lighten up.

[p69rrh51]

Why do we jump to the conclusion that Ilitch is evading taxes -- based on a dispute with the City? I know there's a strong sentiment on this thread that anyone with money is evil -- but its not necessarily true that just because you're evil you must pay taxes you might not owe.

Ilitch is if nothing very visible and image-conscious. There are no doubt thousands of people with tax disputes with the city. There was another thread on this forum about income taxes being unfairly assessed.

With a differently written article, this thread might have been title 'City unfairly assesses Ilitch with bogus taxes'. That may be true here. We just don't really know. So lighten up.

I for one am glad we are jumping on him. He is famous for not paying his bills! His son still owes me for work I did years ago and I know several people who have not been paid or were paid exceptionally late. Keep piling it on he deserves it!

[Wesley Mouch]

I for one am glad we are jumping on him. He is famous for not paying his bills! His son still owes me for work I did years ago and I know several people who have not been paid or were paid exceptionally late. Keep piling it on he deserves it!

Fair enough to complain of the way you've been treated. They're sharp businesspeople. The law has ways of dealing with this -- small claims court for example. So do pursue your rights.

[p69rrh51]

Fair enough to complain of the way you've been treated. They're sharp businesspeople. The law has ways of dealing with this -- small claims court for example. So do pursue your rights.

Yes they are very sharp they take our money but do not pay their bills! Its not worth my time to collect, I prefer to let everyone know what cheats they are and to not do business with them.

[noise]

Yes they are very sharp they take our money but do not pay their bills! Its not worth my time to collect, I prefer to let everyone know what cheats they are and to not do business with them.

How's that working out for you? You lost money and haven't hurt them in the slightest.

[p69rrh51]

How's that working out for you? You lost money and haven't hurt them in the slightest.

Very well a lesson well learned, but its too bad more people like you and most of the city have to get fleeced for one man's greed! Its funny you, like many in the area want to stick you head in the ground when you find out they are just a bunch of crooks not the benevolent caretakers of the city they portray themselves to be.

[401don]

If property taxes have to be paid on for-profit leases, anyone bother to check if taxes are being paid at Comerica Park?

[gnome]

Does anyone know for certain if entertainers/sport stars are required to pay taxes on the income they earn inside the City? Also, do visiting teams have to pay income city income taxes?

[esp1986]

Technically, yes and yes. They should be paying this. Many municipalities that collect income taxes, allow for a deduction for taxes paid to another city for "days out of town." However, players wouldn't get that deduction unless they pay tax in those other cities... Either way, City of Detroit taxes should be withheld from Detroit athlete's checks to the tune of about 1.2%.

Players from other teams should be paying tax in the city as well, as that is where the income is earned. However, the burden is on the city to make a case and prove this. In these times for Detroit, the investment to figure all of this out, is not a wise allocation of such limited resources for the city. In better times, if they are trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of people, they could undertake this. I personally have a lot of clients who had this happen during the downturn. A lot of states and cities went after a our clients for what literally amounted to a few dollars worth of tax in some cases, but cost our clients a few thousand to take care of in total. I'm curious whether or not the states and cities actually got more out of it than it cost them to administrate...

[Wesley Mouch]

Does anyone know for certain if entertainers/sport stars are required to pay taxes on the income they earn inside the City? Also, do visiting teams have to pay income city income taxes?

Yes and yes! The city used to be pretty good at least sending a notice and tax packet to performers and sports teams -- that's pretty cheap. Agree that spending a lot to chase this money isn't worthwhile -- but notifying people of their obligations, and the occasional tough follow-up from existing staff is prudent.

I don't expect prudence from Detroit staff, unfortunately.

[Wesley Mouch]

Very well a lesson well learned, but its too bad more people like you and most of the city have to get fleeced for one man's greed! Its funny you, like many in the area want to stick you head in the ground when you find out they are just a bunch of crooks not the benevolent caretakers of the city they portray themselves to be.

I strongly disagree with his actions on preservation, but I don't find it necessary to generalize that into 'bunch of crooks'. Look at things overall, he's been a force for good in Detroit. Who else moved their business downtown from the 'burbs in the 80s? Its a small list. You don't always get everything you want. But sometimes its still OK.

[p69rrh51]

I strongly disagree with his actions on preservation, but I don't find it necessary to generalize that into 'bunch of crooks'. Look at things overall, he's been a force for good in Detroit. Who else moved their business downtown from the 'burbs in the 80s? Its a small list. You don't always get everything you want. But sometimes its still OK.

I would be more than willing to have you meet with one of my customers. He did structural work on the Fox. Ilitch owed him quite a bit of money[[over 100k) and it took him over 2 years to collect after having to take him to court. Another good friend works for a major HVAC contractor in town-Ilitch holdings is the only company they will not do business with in the city, but they still do work for the CoD. He has put a few companies out of business leaving those who counted on him out in the cold. You find that ok??

[Gistok]

p69... these problems do beg the question... how did Marion Ilitch get a Casino license, when others were denied on lesser problems... Or does nonpayment not constitute a criminal offense? .... such as a domestic dispute, which I know curtailed the casino careers of at least one potential casino owner...