Looking for a good map of Hantz Farm purchase

**jolla** · December-12-12, 10:33 AM

I've done some googling, but I can't find what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a map that shows all of the properties, not just the boundries, included in the agreement.

I figured if anyone would know where to find that it would be DYers.

TIA

**jolla** · December-13-12, 01:33 PM

Anyone know where I can find a list of all of the properties?

**Scottathew** · December-13-12, 01:41 PM

Check this out: http://openingofdetroit.org/graphics...sParcelMap.png

JVB · December-13-12, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

Check this out: http://openingofdetroit.org/graphics...sParcelMap.png

Great map! Hard to believe that's less than 2% of the vacant land in Detroit...

**AGinthe313** · December-13-12, 03:43 PM

Great Map -Damn...that's a lot of yard work, they're signing-up for!

**313hero** · December-13-12, 03:44 PM

Omg smh omg

**Richard** · December-13-12, 06:58 PM

I can see why they wanted the deal,beautiful chunk of speculation,kudos

**Eastside** · December-13-12, 07:11 PM

That is an incredible amount of land parcels, thanks for posting the map 48091!

**davewindsor** · December-13-12, 09:48 PM

OMG, that's a lot of buildings to offer to knock down on his own dime. Charlevoix and Harding is a boarded up apartment building. There's another one at Hurbut and Kercheval.

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-12, 11:58 PM

Everyone's talking about the speculative value of the land. How about this...all that land surrounding the approved site is gonna see their value appreciate from not being across the street from a burnt up junkyard. We need more of this kind of thinking, on both big scale and small scale to clean up the city.

Any know how much it's gonna cost Hantz just to raze the buildings down and clean up the lots?

Something tells me it'll be more than $300 per lot to do it.

**Honky Tonk** · December-14-12, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Everyone's talking about the speculative value of the land. How about this...all that land surrounding the approved site is gonna see their value appreciate from not being across the street from a burnt up junkyard. We need more of this kind of thinking, on both big scale and small scale to clean up the city.

Any know how much it's gonna cost Hantz just to raze the buildings down and clean up the lots?

Something tells me it'll be more than $300 per lot to do it.

Exactly. And when can we expect the City Fathers to polish up this fine jewel? This is the equivalent to the pictures of those Packard cars someone posted, sitting in a yard, rusting away. Are they worth money restored, in driveable condition? Sure, but right now they're just rusty automobiles and an eyesore.

**Dexlin** · December-14-12, 06:48 AM

Wow, didn't realize it is this large and so non-contiguous. It looks like an incredibly inefficient amount and placement of land to try and run any kind of agricultural enterprise on. Far too fractured.

Obviously, some of this land won't be able to be used for farming, so he has to be thinking about selling off single-lots wedged between occupied structures. Along St. Jean seems to make the most efficient part for growing trees, logistically. The rest looks like a hit and miss for large-scale agriculture.Great find

Great find, 48901. this seems like something that would have made much more sense somewhere in Brightmoor where these is more contiguous empty land, but this is a done deal.

**Packman41** · December-14-12, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Anybody know how much it's gonna cost Hantz just to raze the buildings down and clean up the lots? Something tells me it'll be more than $300 per lot to do it.

Hello CTY:

Yes, the Detroit News reported the cost of clean-up to be $3,200,000. IMHO that might be low.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/212120340

”The agreement calls for the company to buy about 1,500 city-owned plots on the east side for about $520,000 and plant at least 15,000 trees during the first two years. Representatives of the project said the company would cover costs for title work, demolition of structures and removal of trash at a cost of an additional $3.2 million.”

OK, the land cost is $520,000, plus you pay for $3.2 million for demo and clean up, plus you don’t get any tax breaks and it takes you 4 years to get to that point. Total cost: about $26,575 per acre – not counting the hassle.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-14-12, 09:03 AM

Weren't many of the previously demolished homes that had basements just filled in with debris? I would think that in many cases the lot is not really condusive to ag use, unless Hantz plans on reworking those already demolished lots and prepping for planting.

**downtownguy** · December-14-12, 09:08 AM

"You've got the city facing its own fiscal cliff, and yet we've had more people coming down in the past 24 hours complaining about somebody wanting to come in and buy vacant lots to plant trees," Cockrel said. "It's kind of crazy when you think about it."

He acknowledged there were legitimate policy questions.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2F2AdXgjZ

The policy questions is what gave me some caution from the beginning. For their part, I'm happy with council on this one. Bing tried to shove this through with little transparency just as he tried to shove through hiring Miller Canfield on the bond issue. I'm glad council shed some light on this before taking their vote. Some call it obstructionist. I call it due diligence.

However, in the newspaper articles I've read, I still don't see too many details of the agreement. Does anybody have a source where I can read up on the agreement without getting too much legal mumbo jumbo?

**davewindsor** · December-14-12, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Weren't many of the previously demolished homes that had basements just filled in with debris? I would think that in many cases the lot is not really condusive to ag use, unless Hantz plans on reworking those already demolished lots and prepping for planting.

Hantz would have to remove those filled in basements as it's blight and could have environmental contaminants like old oil tanks, lead paint or asbestos and was not properly done via demolition permit. It happens. Houses are moved to a new site without follow up or it may even be an old rectangular shaped swimming pool that was filled in with dirt.

Hantz is gonna be on the hook for a lot more money for cleanup than he thinks.

**Dexlin** · December-14-12, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2F2AdXgjZ

The policy questions is what gave me some caution from the beginning. For their part, I'm happy with council on this one. Bing tried to shove this through with little transparency just as he tried to shove through hiring Miller Canfield on the bond issue. I'm glad council shed some light on this before taking their vote. Some call it obstructionist. I call it due diligence.

However, in the newspaper articles I've read, I still don't see too many details of the agreement. Does anybody have a source where I can read up on the agreement without getting too much legal mumbo jumbo?

While I'm skeptical about the whole scheme, myself, I think it's pretty ridiculous to say of a project that's literally been before the council for years, now, and through numerous community meetings and council committee sessions that it was "shove through" anything.

There are legitimate questions. In my last point I made note of there being no real way that ALL of this land can efficiently be used for a tree farm, but this thing was sprung on the community in the 11th hour. Now, if someone believes that due diligence wasn't done by the council, that's one thing, but this wasn't something shoved through with little community input.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-14-12, 10:04 AM

Well who knows, maybe in 10 years we'll all be able to "see the forest for the trees"....that is at least when driving by St Jean and Jeff. Wasn't Detroit know as the city of trees back in the day. Life is coming full circle for this little part of the D.

**AGinthe313** · December-14-12, 10:20 AM

I’ve decided to quit my job and offer lawn mowing services to the Hantz Farm group: 1500 parcels @ $10 a mow, once a week, for 16 weeks of the year. Grand total = $240,000. Well maybe a little less as I’ll need to pay some neighborhood kids to help.

**Hermod** · December-14-12, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Obviously, some of this land won't be able to be used for farming, so he has to be thinking about selling off single-lots wedged between occupied structures. Along St. Jean seems to make the most efficient part for growing trees, logistically. The rest looks like a hit and miss for large-scale agriculture.Great find

Alternatively, he could contract with some of the "boyz" to convert the intervening properties into burned out hulks.

**Hamtragedy** · December-14-12, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

I can see why they wanted the deal,beautiful chunk of speculation,kudos

This "beautiful chunk of speculation" was in decline when I lived on Bewick as a child in the early 70's. We had lots of fun playing in abandoned houses until our parents found out.

Our house on Bewick is one of the last ones standing. The last ten years have seen the beautiful wood Victorian burn to the ground, in addition to most of the other remaining homes.

This neighborhood should have been prime real estate all along, 1-3 blocks from the river for most of it, from Indian Village all the way to St. Jean. But the beast that is Detroit has killed nearly all of the stately, solidly made, mostly brick middle class homes, many architectually beautiful [[been down what's left of Cadillac Blvd lately) all built between 1900 to 1920. And this has been going on for decades.

Which begs another question from and for another thread. When's the last time anyone drove down Chalmers or Lakewood or Newport south of Jefferson? Or hell, Marlborough, where homes [[or more prominently vacant lots) are literally on the water. Why is it that the same people who cried foul that the Hanz proposal was taking "prime real estate" don't give two-shits about the remaining neighborhood on the canals, yet alone the area that was once prime real estate that's been reduced to crickets, tall grass, and soon to be, trees?

**neavling** · December-15-12, 09:37 PM

As part of an agreement with the city, Hantz pledged to knock down 55 of the 111 parcels in the next two years at a cost of $1.8 million. That includes cleanup costs too. He agreed to remove the tires, broken glass, etc.

JVB · December-15-12, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Why is it that the same people who cried foul that the Hanz proposal was taking "prime real estate" don't give two-shits about the remaining neighborhood on the canals, yet alone the area that was once prime real estate that's been reduced to crickets, tall grass, and soon to be, trees?

Nobody cares about that land because no rich investors have tried to come in and buy it. Especially someone that looks like Mr. Hantz.

**Richard** · December-16-12, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by JVB

Nobody cares about that land because no rich investors have tried to come in and buy it. Especially someone that looks like Mr. Hantz.

It boils down to representation,even though the city was tight on funds last year neighborhoods like Corktown,Midtown etc. received neighborhood initiative funds.

If one neighbor goes in front of the city they are a power of one when the charter kicks in and you guys vote for representatives they will be going in front of the city backed by entire neighborhoods.Not the voice of one but thousands,Corktpwn etc. all have community organization which gives them a larger voice.

It does not matter who is president funds have always been available from fed initiatives ,first it was to counter the devastation caused by the freeway disruption,then it was to counter the devastation caused by the crack epidemic,and most recently 100s of millions to counter blight from the mortgage foreclose crises.

If there are swathes of trash strewn uncut lots it does not matter if there are 2.5 people living on the block,the currant system in place has created the blight.

Neighborhoods all go through cycles the older folks retire and move their children are off to collage or move elsewhere so more homes come up for rent and starts the downward cycle,it is the city responsibility to take those neighborhoods and offer incentives to encourage the upward cycle to begin again,the city is broke is no excuse because they are not working with their money anyways,so they are either receiving the funds and diverting them elsewhere or not applying for those funds.

Back to Hantz and the map when I look down at the green dots I see an entire street or continuous green that could be low density shops with apartments on top and many blocks with five empty in fill lots to start with,that could be made into a really nice subdivision in the future with everything you need within walking distance.It does not need to be million dollar homes just affordable bungalow style mid range homes.To bad Sears no longer sells homes.

The infrastructure is already in place most of the neighbors are there because they are devoted so there is some stability.
It looks like there is a park there and a school?

Or I can look at the map and say wow what blight ,so disgusting nobody would want those lots there anyways plant trees or hemp.

**Packman41** · December-16-12, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

It boils down to representation....

...snip......when I look down at the green dots I see an entire street or continuous green that could be low density shops with apartments on top and many blocks with five empty in fill lots to start with,that could be made into a really nice subdivision in the future with everything you need within walking distance.It does not need to be million dollar homes just affordable bungalow style mid range homes.To bad Sears no longer sells homes.

The infrastructure is already in place most of the neighbors are there because they are devoted so there is some stability.
It looks like there is a park there and a school?

Or I can look at the map and say wow what blight ,so disgusting nobody would want those lots there anyways plant trees or hemp.

That representation you speak of elected the leaders that put Detroit in the condition it is in. And the voters spoke and voted in support of those leaders year after year, so they must have liked what their leaders were doing.

Yes, it might be easy to envision, “low density shops with apartments” there when you live in Tampa. Hard to believe now, but that area used to look the way you envision it back in the 1950s and 1960s. Homes and apartments filled, schools overflowing and a multitude of small shops along the major streets.

Let me put it perspective for you. Since the 1950s about 1,140,000 people decided for themselves [[no hurricane) to leave Detroit. That is nearly the size of the population of Hillsborough County, Florida – the county you live in. What would Tampa look like if the population of the county decided to leave?

By the way, my childhood home was about 1.3 miles east of the Hantz site, along Vernor Hwy. and closer to Grosse Pointe. Today the entire block I grew up on is now totally vacant and my elementary school has been closed and slated for demolition.

So when you “look down [on the map] to the green dots” notice that the typical lot size is only 30 feet wide – that is a rather tight density. So let us discuss when the next cycle of revitalization will come to this neighborhood. Fact: Detroit lost 1,140,000 in the last 60 years. Assume the revitalized neighborhood will have half the population density of the 1950s. Therefore, one could assume that the area will be revitalized when 570,000 people decide to return to Detroit.

How long will that take? Anybody’s guess. Meanwhile, growing trees or any other readily harvestable, cash crop seems like a benign use to me until 570,000 folks decide to move to town.