Dan Gilberts Retail Renaissance to include 70-90 retailers, including Target & Apple

[erikd]

You know people have been saying that were getting downtown retail for pretty much 2 years non stop. In fact the first post on this thread says retail would be announced in January 2013, 1 year ago. Maybe Gilbert contacted retailers and they told him that they are not interested in urban markets. I still feel like this is just one big wet dream by yuppies and people that can't face the reality that Detroit is not just one big happy problem-free playground and in fact is a city that has major issues that need to be addressed before retail can succeed.

The large-scale opening of downtown retail [[especially in the lower Woodward corridor) will happen after the M1 rail construction is complete. The M1 rail construction was originally planned to start over a year ago, but there were delays that pushed the start of construction back. Once the construction of the M1 rail line is closer to completion, you can expect to hear announcements about the new retail.

Opening a slew of new stores just as a major street and transit construction begins would be terrible for the new stores, so it makes perfect sense to hold off for a year or two until the construction is complete, and then open everything at the same time.

[DetroitPlanner]

Opening a slew of new stores just as a major street and transit construction begins would be terrible for the new stores, so it makes perfect sense to hold off for a year or two until the construction is complete, and then open everything at the same time.

Downtown businesses are not driven by AADT [[traffic counts). It will have a very minor impact on sales. The market for CBDs needs to be driven by foot traffic.

I was just reminded of early last year when 7-11 announced it was going to open three stores downtown with much fanfare and free slurpees. These were to be open by the end of summer and there is a foot of snow outside. Has anyone seen these mythical 7-11s yet? Any progress on the rumoured location at Cadillac and Randolph?

[warsaw7]

You know people have been saying that were getting downtown retail for pretty much 2 years non stop. In fact the first post on this thread says retail would be announced in January 2013, 1 year ago. Maybe Gilbert contacted retailers and they told him that they are not interested in urban markets. I still feel like this is just one big wet dream by yuppies and people that can't face the reality that Detroit is not just one big happy problem-free playground and in fact is a city that has major issues that need to be addressed before retail can succeed.

Wow, well put! Which is why I don't believe anything on Curbed Detroit. Take about regurgitated rumors and awful reporting. They believe anything from anyone [[Got any tips!) and their stories are reposts from the News and the Free Press. Definitely my last avenue for the truth. Someone just called out the fact that we were supposed to have three 7-11's within the year?! Where are those?

I think the rumor machine over at Curbed is really riling people up to believe in all these retailers are coming to midtown. While I think hope is a great thing, it is also a very bad thing, especially to a city in bankruptcy. Improve the infrastructure and through time we may start seeing more retailers pop up. Until then get used to Moosejaw.

[stasu1213]

Detroit need to handle its problem of safety in the
Downtown area. Planner had asked what do Target opening in new center area has to do with what Gilbert is doing. Target and otger box stores were mentioned on this blog. I was just saying that those stores could open in some of these empty strip mall on Jefferson. The biggest problem that detroit have alongside with crime is the red tape the Bing Administration as well as the DEGC had put up for potential retail to go through. I had notice some movements in the 7-11, Starbucks, and Papa Joes sites since the Duggan Admin started and George Jackson being pushed to the side

[DetroitPlanner]

Detroit need to handle its problem of safety in the
Downtown area. Planner had asked what do Target opening in new center area has to do with what Gilbert is doing. Target and otger box stores were mentioned on this blog. I was just saying that those stores could open in some of these empty strip mall on Jefferson. The biggest problem that detroit have alongside with crime is the red tape the Bing Administration as well as the DEGC had put up for potential retail to go through. I had notice some movements in the 7-11, Starbucks, and Papa Joes sites since the Duggan Admin started and George Jackson being pushed to the side

I would agree in concept that what you mentioned are possible locations, but the thread talks about Gilbert leading retail in the CBD. Gilbert has no vested interests the the areas you mentioned.

[erikd]

Downtown businesses are not driven by AADT [[traffic counts). It will have a very minor impact on sales. The market for CBDs needs to be driven by foot traffic.

Major street/infrastructure construction projects are extremely disruptive to not only vehicular traffic, but pedestrian traffic as well.

Your assertion that this type of construction will only "have a very minor impact on sales" is proof that you don't know what you are talking about. I have lived through a number of major street reconstruction projects in my years of working and living downtown. They are extremely disruptive to pedestrian traffic and significantly decrease customer volume and sales for the storefronts in the construction area.

We are not talking about the street being closed for a couple of days for pavement resurfacing, we are talking about jackhammers and backhoes tearing everything up for months. It is loud and unpleasant, and any time that it rains or snows, the entire street and all of the sidewalks are covered in mud for days.

This is not the type of situation that you want for the grand opening of a bunch of new stores, especially if you are trying to reestablish a downtown storefront shopping district.

[DetroitPlanner]

Major street/infrastructure construction projects are extremely disruptive to not only vehicular traffic, but pedestrian traffic as well.

Your assertion that this type of construction will only "have a very minor impact on sales" is proof that you don't know what you are talking about. I have lived through a number of major street reconstruction projects in my years of working and living downtown. They are extremely disruptive to pedestrian traffic and significantly decrease customer volume and sales for the storefronts in the construction area.

We are not talking about the street being closed for a couple of days for pavement resurfacing, we are talking about jackhammers and backhoes tearing everything up for months. It is loud and unpleasant, and any time that it rains or snows, the entire street and all of the sidewalks are covered in mud for days.

This is not the type of situation that you want for the grand opening of a bunch of new stores, especially if you are trying to reestablish a downtown storefront shopping district.

M-1 rail [[your main reason for saying hold off) is not going to have a major impact on sidewalks. The main thing needed for retail to open is access to a market willing to buy its goods or services. There is a growing market right now. Was Potbelly's stupid for opening a store on Woodward last month?

[mikeg19]

Downtown businesses are not driven by AADT [[traffic counts). It will have a very minor impact on sales. The market for CBDs needs to be driven by foot traffic.

I was just reminded of early last year when 7-11 announced it was going to open three stores downtown with much fanfare and free slurpees. These were to be open by the end of summer and there is a foot of snow outside. Has anyone seen these mythical 7-11s yet? Any progress on the rumoured location at Cadillac and Randolph?

Well put Planner. I was downtown last night near Greektown, but decided to take a drive around the CBD and Corktown areas just to see what was going on. The CBD was an absolute ghost town at 12:30. I half expected t see some remnants of a nightlife, but there was absolutely nobody on the streets. Yes, the forecast for snow might have kept some people indoors, but I was very surprised by the lack of bar/restaurant patrons downtown considering the temps weren't all that cold last night.

Once I took a drive down Michigan Ave to the MCS however, it was completely different. There were groups of people walking all over the place. Slows was busy, Mercury bar, the Gaelic club parking lot was pretty full. There was even a handful of cars out in front of MCS taking pictures. Very interesting to see the contrast.

[erikd]

M-1 rail [[your main reason for saying hold off) is not going to have a major impact on sidewalks. The main thing needed for retail to open is access to a market willing to buy its goods or services. There is a growing market right now. Was Potbelly's stupid for opening a store on Woodward last month?

Potbelly serves the office lunch crowd, which is a fairly captive market. Their sales will go down during construction, but they can probably still make it through those lean months. Also, they are right on Campus Martius, which is already a bustling area.

The row of storefronts between Gratiot and Grand Circus Park is a very different situation, especially for the clothing/home goods/etc retail stores that we are talking about. That section of Woodward does not have the density of office workers to support a cluster of lunch/coffee businesses, as opposed to Campus Martius, which is surrounded by office towers.

Also, the storefront retail spaces on Woodward between Gratiot and GCP are much larger than the storefronts surrounding Campus Martius, and they are very deep, which makes them difficult to divide up into small spaces conducive to things like sandwich and coffee shops. It is one thing to lease out 1000-2000 sqft storefronts to coffee and lunch retailers, it is quite another to lease out 10,000-20,000 sqft storefronts to clothing/furniture/home goods retailers.

The Woodward blocks between Gratiot and GCP were built out for larger scale retailers, and they are not conducive to being cut up into small shops. They are mostly rectangular shaped, with the short side along the street, and the long side running all the way back to the alley. They are also all in separate buildings, which eliminates the possibility of running an interior hallway which would allow the spaces to be divided into smaller stores.

Although they are only a few blocks apart, what works in Campus Martius does not necessarily work just up the street.

The larger, deeper, storefronts are not conducive to the office lunch crowd, but they are conducive to larger stores that sell goods, which brings me back to my point of why it is not a good idea for these type of stores to open up just as a major construction project is starting.

[erikd]

M-1 rail [[your main reason for saying hold off) is not going to have a major impact on sidewalks. The main thing needed for retail to open is access to a market willing to buy its goods or services. There is a growing market right now. Was Potbelly's stupid for opening a store on Woodward last month?

Just out of curiosity, are you actually an urban planner?

[DetroitPlanner]

Just out of curiosity, are you actually an urban planner?

Yeah but I suck at it. I have to augment my salary by picking up pop bottles at major events and by dancing at Henry's Palace. I am all this city can afford. What is your excuse?

[erikd]

Yeah but I suck at it. I have to augment my salary by picking up pop bottles at major events and by dancing at Henry's Palace. I am all this city can afford. What is your excuse?

Ha! That's pretty funny.

If you haven't read City by Willam H Whyte, you should check it out. He spent years doing studies on pedestrian traffic flows and how people move through and occupy public urban spaces. The impact that seemingly small factors have on the behavior of pedestrians is actually huge.

[DetroitPlanner]

Ha! That's pretty funny.

If you haven't read City by Willam H W

WillIam H W HITE? I got it in my library.

[DetroitPlanner]

To contribute to the conversation, Target is experimenting with an even smaller sized store. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/bu...oofinance&_r=0

[stasu1213]

Let's hope that Duggan will be able to convince Target to open one in downtown or midtown Detroit.

[Spartan]

Anyone heard any rumors about Z-lot commercial?

[Hypestyles]

Let's hope that Duggan will be able to convince Target to open one in downtown or midtown Detroit.

the city will need whatever jobs this will provide, generic items or not.

[downtownguy]

Good article in the News today about pop-ups that are looking to become permanent.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ok-settle-down

[DetroitPlanner]

Welcome pop ups to the land of no popped!