How would you design the arena and development?

**emu steve** · December-07-12, 05:29 AM

Let's assume that the raging debate has ended [[it ended in the other thread), some monies [[etc.) become available, that the Ilitches have all the parcels they need to build the arena at the site of their choice.

Pretend you were hired to design the entire development.

How would you lay it out? You have many, many acres at three sites. You have major roads: Woodward to the east, the Fisher between the Fox site the Woodward parcel, etc. to plan around.

How much office space? Where?

How much residential? Where?

How much parking? Where? How would it affect parking for Comerica?

Traffic considerations?

How would it all fit together blended together?

If you placed the arena behind the Fox would it take decades for the Woodward/Fisher site [[very large) to develop? Continue to be surface parking?

If you place the arena on the Woodward site would the area behind the Fox be waste land for decades?

I'm not even going to think of the Motor City Casino area.

Just some questions.

**kryptonite** · December-07-12, 09:48 AM

About a year or two ago someone posted a similar question on Detroityes. They made up a computer model of a new hockey arena modeled after the old Olympia Stadium. It was awesome.

I cannot find how to search the web site for past postings or text strings, but I'm sure the post would still be available.

**mikefmich** · December-07-12, 10:04 AM

I've been in many hockey arenas in my life. The one in Columbus is one of the best I've ever watched a game in. Take that design & tweek it a little.

**Gistok** · December-07-12, 10:22 AM

Here's 2 designs shown on another forum.... first design looks to boxy for my taste...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1518249

Shollin · December-07-12, 11:55 AM

I would design the retail portion similar to SouthSide Works in Pittsburgh, or Easton Town Center in Columbus. I would include a plaza or town square as a gathering place in the middle of the development that could be used for public events.

**rex** · December-07-12, 12:53 PM

Should be on the other side of the freeway.

**DetroitPlanner** · December-07-12, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by rex

Should be on the other side of the freeway.

Which side is the other side? Which freeway for that matter?

I don't think we should be building any new housing or office space for this. The CBD already has lots of office space, several housing proposals on on the books for the area. If housing is included, it should be directed at buildings that are currently empty. Retail? I could care less. All it will be are souvenier stands and maybe an eatery like Max and Ermas. Big whoop.

**ghettopalmetto** · December-07-12, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I would design the retail portion similar to SouthSide Works in Pittsburgh, or Easton Town Center in Columbus. I would include a plaza or town square as a gathering place in the middle of the development that could be used for public events.

I think one of the more important questions to ask early in the process is whether Mr. Ilitch's new pre-fab "neighborhood" will use the existing public street grid, or if the streets will be privately owned, as in the South Side Works and Easton Town Center shopping malls.

**rex** · December-07-12, 02:30 PM

I-75. KiddieCorner to Comerica Park but across the Freeway. Maybe behind Harrys. Plenty of space for parking and whatever else. Clear away some of that wasteland. Imminent Domain parcels, give holdouts fair market value plus IDK 10%. Pull down long abandoned apartment building and phaps the homeless and hopeless will vacate the area. Set up a new skidrow with services and shelters and what-have-you. Maybe down by the bridge. Let Matty deal with it.

Between 75 and the Lodge, NewCenter and Jefferson [[downtown), the chunk between Mack on the north end and 75 to the south is standing in the way of a stable contiguous city core. Its location alone should make it priority 1 for redevelopment and really if you look at arial views the job is 2/3 done. Its standing in the way of a broader downtown renaissance. I mean... That should be the high rent district as opposed to uh. Im not even sure what to call it. post apocalypse

**401don** · December-07-12, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by rex

I-75. KiddieCorner to Comerica Park but across the Freeway. Maybe behind Harrys. Plenty of space for parking and whatever else. Clear away some of that wasteland. Imminent Domain parcels, give holdouts fair market value plus IDK 10%. Pull down long abandoned apartment building and phaps the homeless and hopeless will vacate the area. Set up a new skidrow with services and shelters and what-have-you. Maybe down by the bridge. Let Matty deal with it.

Between 75 and the Lodge, NewCenter and Jefferson [[downtown), the chunk between Mack on the north end and 75 to the south is standing in the way of a stable contiguous city core. Its location alone should make it priority 1 for redevelopment and really if you look at arial views the job is 2/3 done. Its standing in the way of a broader downtown renaissance. I mean... That should be the high rent district as opposed to uh. Im not even sure what to call it. post apocalypse

Eminent domain no longer applies. I'm sure if Ilitch knew he could use "imminent domain" he wouldn't have paid hundreds of thousands for all those properties.

**Gistok** · December-07-12, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Eminent domain no longer applies. I'm sure if Ilitch knew he could use "imminent domain" he wouldn't have paid hundreds of thousands for all those properties.

He paid millions... $1.7 million for 1 parcel alone along Grand River @ $234 per sq. ft.... the highest land price ever in downtown.

**rex** · December-07-12, 03:26 PM

In other words that area is doomed for ever?

**gnome** · December-07-12, 03:44 PM

I would close Adams west of Park and put the arena on the backside of the United Artist building.

**Gistok** · December-07-12, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I would close Adams west of Park and put the arena on the backside of the United Artist building.

Gnome I would agree with you 100%, except for 1 thing... that would intrude on the "as built" Woodward Plan.... everything south of Adams and east of Cass still follows the original plan. Maybe the Tuller site could be a development connector between the UA and Arena, which could be built north of Adams... but keep all the Park Ave. surviving buildings.

**antongast** · December-07-12, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by rex

I-75. KiddieCorner to Comerica Park but across the Freeway. Maybe behind Harrys. Plenty of space for parking and whatever else. Clear away some of that wasteland. Imminent Domain parcels, give holdouts fair market value plus IDK 10%. Pull down long abandoned apartment building and phaps the homeless and hopeless will vacate the area. Set up a new skidrow with services and shelters and what-have-you. Maybe down by the bridge. Let Matty deal with it.

Between 75 and the Lodge, NewCenter and Jefferson [[downtown), the chunk between Mack on the north end and 75 to the south is standing in the way of a stable contiguous city core. Its location alone should make it priority 1 for redevelopment and really if you look at arial views the job is 2/3 done. Its standing in the way of a broader downtown renaissance. I mean... That should be the high rent district as opposed to uh. Im not even sure what to call it. post apocalypse

I call it "my neighborhood." Maybe someone should "clear away" your neighborhood and turn it into a "stable" "high-rent district" so you'll stop "standing in the way." Or maybe you should just not come here if you don't like it here.

JVB · December-07-12, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I call it "my neighborhood." Maybe someone should "clear away" your neighborhood and turn it into a "stable" "high-rent district" so you'll stop "standing in the way." Or maybe you should just not come here if you don't like it here.

Pretty sure he's referring to the vacant Brewster Douglass area and all the empty lots in Brush Park. He did say it was 2/3 of the way done, so don't be so sensitive.

**esp1986** · December-07-12, 05:26 PM

I get the impression, that the Eddystone Hotel and former Harbor Light Center will likely be part of the commercial/residential development. My impression is that it will be North of I-75 and likely incorporate any salvageable buildings of the ones that have recently been bought up. My hope is for the two aforementioned buildings to be part if it, as well as the former American Hotel just north of Cass Park, hopefully leading to somewhat of a revival of the Cass Park area.

**downtownguy** · December-07-12, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

Pretty sure he's referring to the vacant Brewster Douglass area and all the empty lots in Brush Park. He did say it was 2/3 of the way done, so don't be so sensitive.

Yet, there's been no talk of locating it there...

**emu steve** · December-07-12, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

I get the impression, that the Eddystone Hotel and former Harbor Light Center will likely be part of the commercial/residential development. My impression is that it will be North of I-75 and likely incorporate any salvageable buildings of the ones that have recently been bought up. My hope is for the two aforementioned buildings to be part if it, as well as the former American Hotel just north of Cass Park, hopefully leading to somewhat of a revival of the Cass Park area.

This is also what I have in mind.

Haven't we posted about the need for more housing in the CBD/Midtown area.

I would also put a large parking garage along the north side of the Fisher between Woodward and Park to replace all of the lost surface parking lost along Woodward from the Fisher toward Temple.

That garage would nicely serve both the new arena and Comerica [[and, of course, Ford Field, etc.).

**DetroitPlanner** · December-07-12, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I would also put a large parking garage along the north side of the Fisher between Woodward and Park to replace all of the lost surface parking lost along Woodward from the Fisher toward Temple.

Great, another big ass parking lot placed where 150,000 people a day can see it. As if we don't have enough with the Fox, Wayne State, MGM, the New Police Station, Blue Cross, and GM already.

**Scottathew** · December-07-12, 08:25 PM

Retail fronting Woodward with the Arena just behind the retail.

Also, they need to fill in that Comerica parking lot with some retail. They can move the hoe-down back to Hart Plaza.

**Gistok** · December-08-12, 02:58 AM

I would like to see the arena just behind the Fox, pointing east/west with the footprint from Elizabeth in the south to the alley between Columbia/Montcalm in the North. This would be between the Charlevoix and Iodent Buildings, but set back from Park Ave a little, going all the way to Cass. The main facade should face east toward the Blenheim Apts., whose 3 upper floors could be renoveated as apartments, and the main floor opened as an 6 arch pass thru arcade [[see attached image) between Park Ave. and a new Columbia Shopping Plaza between the Fox/Filmore, Woodward and Blenheim Bldg....

Here is a Google map of the area... the two 2 story buildings in the middle could be moved or removed for the arena, as could the bar on Cass/Columbia [[click on to "Large" size...)
https://maps.google.com/maps/empw?ur...ed&hl=en&gl=us

If the 1 1/2 blocks between Elizabeth and the Montcalm/Columbia alley is too narrow, then just turn the building 90 degrees [[facing N/S) and make the foot print from west of the Iodent/Charlevoix Buildings [[to Cass), and going from Montcalm to the Elizabeth/W. Adams alley. This change in direction should also have the main facade centered pointing towards the Blenheim Apts/Arcade with shopping still between the Fox/Fillmore to Woodward.

This would tie together Woodward and Park Ave., which right now only have long commercial free canyons between them.

Because the commercial arcade would not be that big... its' tie in could be continued down Park towards GCP. with residential in the UA Building, new residential on the Tuller and Fine Arts site [[using the facade) as well as in the Park Ave. Building on the corner and the Charlevoix Building next doorr... and parking structure farther west on Adams, on the site of the Adams Theatre Auditorium, and north of Montcalm.

As for north of I-75, I would like to see a bridge crossing Park Ave., [[like the Pulteney Bridge in Bath England,...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulteney_Bridge
with shops along the freeway overpass)... and some additional retail/residential north of I-75.

But much of the lower Midtown area would be available for future expansions. We need to get GCP and the Park Ave. area bustling before developing into Midtown.

Also... the 2 empty parking blocks across the street from the Fox... I would like to see 2 6 story buildings... 1st floor commercial, and floors 2-6 with residential/parking.

**emu steve** · December-08-12, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Great, another big ass parking lot placed where 150,000 people a day can see it. As if we don't have enough with the Fox, Wayne State, MGM, the New Police Station, Blue Cross, and GM already.

Yeah, I suggested it not because I love it but it could happen.

If I had my choice, the parking would be behind the Fox and folks could cross the Fisher at either point and go to the arena.

Having folks cross at Woodward would take them by Hockeytown and I assume the Ilitches would feel thats a good thing.

Also parking behind the Fox would be very convenient to those going to Comerica, sparing them having to cross the Fisher.

Everything I discuss in this post does NOTHING for the Woodward/N. of Fisher site.

It just essentially fills up the Fox site.

It would open up Woodward between the Fisher and extending toward Temple for housing ala the housing opposite side of the street.

**stasu1213** · December-08-12, 10:27 AM

I would design it where the parking is behind the that structure. The front of the main entrance of the building or arena would be on Woodward. No parking on Woodward at all and drop off spots would be on the side of the building. The front of the building would be strictly for pedestrians such as the Fox and Fillmore are. That would add to the street wall and pedestrial traffic running from downtown to the midtown area. Don't put the parking lot in the front of the building. Get rid of the car friendly concept and focus on walkability community feel concept

**wolverine** · December-08-12, 12:45 PM

Here's how I'd block out the "Arena District"

Freeway would be decked over. The fox garage would be extended Northward over the freeway.

Area just East of the "new" fox garage would become an outdoor skating rink like Millennium Park in Chicago. It would be surrounded by restaurants and retail to soften the backdrop of the parking garage. But you'd see this open up toward Woodward. Keep in mind, service drive would continue as normal beneath the garage.

The Arena would be surrounded by Sproat, Park, and Vernor and Woodward...but it would be pushed back toward Park. I'd want reserve a linear strip along Woodward for hotels, restaurants, and shopping. It would also help give this arena a better face so it wouldn't be some dead wall along Woodward when games aren't going on.

Lots north of Sproat would become a mix of retail and residential. Lots between Cass and Park would be entirely residential.

If those two homes are still standing. I'd have them dismantled and reconstructed close by. Last thing I want is an arena surrounded by entirely new monolithic buildings. You need a good mix to keep it interesting.

Also, while I'd prefer a very modern design. I think the populace would enjoy an Art-Deco design more. That might be more interesting actually.