Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder says right-to-work issue is on the table

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-09-12, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"No offense to the anti-RTW crowd, but the union kind of brought this on themselves with Prop 2. They picked the fight with Snyder, so they get to deal with the consequences."

Republicans have been passing laws attacking the labor unions starting the day Snyder was sworn in. Where have you been?

So that doesn't mean it's right. All you RTW apologists will soon find out when you're standing in the soup line. Might as well just rename the state of Michigan to "Michissippi".

JVB · December-10-12, 12:06 AM

What exactly is it about our wonderful economy here in Michigan that the Anti-RTW people are trying to preserve?

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

So that doesn't mean it's right. All you RTW apologists will soon find out when you're standing in the soup line. Might as well just rename the state of Michigan to "Michissippi".

Being one who crossed a picket line with pride and was hired in even though I refused to join the union I can't wait until they go away! Unions now are just to coddle lazy useless workers not to help the "working man". Oh by the way I ended up being paid more with better benefits than long time union employees!

**michimoby** · December-10-12, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

This never was just a single-state issue. Snyder risked stepping way out of his jurisdiction to do this.

Draw your own conclusions as to why he chose to do that much damage to Michigan.

"Damage"? A bill that gives 20 percent of Michigan's workers the choice of whether or not to join a union is allegedly torpedoing the state?

Let's stay out of the hyperbole zone here. 80 percent of us with jobs in Michigan have survived without unions and will continue to do so. And frankly, the 20 percent that now have a choice may even have the option to pursue alternative retirement options, have a choice in the healthcare they buy, and don't see $500m of their hard-earned cash placed in an ever-expanding "strike fund" that may never see the light of day.

The only damage I see being done here is the method in which the Republican-controlled reps pushed it through in such a rapid manner [[while RTA STALLED FOR MONTHS). I hoped Snyder would have had the patience to let this one sit for a bit. And that's an error he'll have to own up to.

That said -- I've believed all along that we needed a politician that was willing to fall on his own sword for the sake of the state. Snyder's doing the things that I believe are necessary for Michigan to not only survive, but grow. I really do.

**ghettopalmetto** · December-10-12, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by michimoby

"Damage"? A bill that gives 20 percent of Michigan's workers the choice of whether or not to join a union is allegedly torpedoing the state?

Let's stay out of the hyperbole zone here. 80 percent of us with jobs in Michigan have survived without unions and will continue to do so. And frankly, the 20 percent that now have a choice may even have the option to pursue alternative retirement options, have a choice in the healthcare they buy, and don't see $500m of their hard-earned cash placed in an ever-expanding "strike fund" that may never see the light of day.

The only damage I see being done here is the method in which the Republican-controlled reps pushed it through in such a rapid manner [[while RTA STALLED FOR MONTHS). I hoped Snyder would have had the patience to let this one sit for a bit. And that's an error he'll have to own up to.

That said -- I've believed all along that we needed a politician that was willing to fall on his own sword for the sake of the state. Snyder's doing the things that I believe are necessary for Michigan to not only survive, but grow. I really do.

Welcome to Michissippi, economic capital of the universe.

Maybe New York State should adopt right-to-work legislation. Then they'd finally be able to compete the with economic juggernaut known as Alabama.

Just so you know, federal law already prohibits requiring employees to join a union.

**RaumVogel** · December-10-12, 09:16 AM

Here's a video of one of you're gutsy [[thank god) legislators telling the REBpublicans what they can do with their new "Right to Work" legislation. I moved away because I could never find a "pays a living wage" job.Unfortunately, where I am now isn't paying enough,either and the cost of living is on the rise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AsI2xc_FYX0

**rb336** · December-10-12, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by michimoby

"Damage"? A bill that gives 20 percent of Michigan's workers the choice of whether or not to join a union is allegedly torpedoing the state?

100% of workers already have the right to not join a union. apart from that, if you don't want to work in a union shop, DON'T APPLY THERE.

Let's stay out of the hyperbole zone here. 80 percent of us with jobs in Michigan have survived without unions and will continue to do so.

And odds are your wages are higher BECAUSE of unions, whether your company is unionized or not.

**poobert** · December-10-12, 11:38 AM

This is just what a college-educated young person like myself looks for in a state! I think we just solved our brain-drain problem! What a pancea this is. I'm glad the right-wingers in this state understood that getting obliterated nationally meant they should force their agenda through without debate in a lame duck session.

Good, unions were really my problem with Michigan. Otherwise it's great, especially with a bunch of neo-nazis in the legislature. I really want to stay here now. I just can't wait till the job creators start coming in. Be still my soul! And here I was all excited about the prospect of moving to Alabama, or Mississippi. Now I can enjoy all the economic benefits those states reap without having to leave this post-industrial wasteland!

**rb336** · December-10-12, 11:56 AM

love it, poobert. especially the misspell of panacea, which I assume was done on purpose due to the italics

**Pam** · December-10-12, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Being one who crossed a picket line with pride and was hired in even though I refused to join the union I can't wait until they go away! Unions now are just to coddle lazy useless workers not to help the "working man". Oh by the way I ended up being paid more with better benefits than long time union employees!

This post makes me miss Oldredfordette.

**Pam** · December-10-12, 12:41 PM

Nurses in Lansing today:

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/a...text|FRONTPAGE

**Danny** · December-10-12, 01:07 PM

Then it's Union War against Snyder, The Nerd and his Republican cronies in Lansing. They will come armed with baseball bats, knives and guns if the Right-to-Work proposal becomes law.

**Danny** · December-10-12, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

So when MI becomes a RTW state, does that mean we can finally snap shit away from the hillbilly states?

No this means that Michigan will be a snap shit to the hillbilly state where people will work for slave wages and union collectization due from non-unions is illegal.

**Novine** · December-10-12, 01:23 PM

The logic of the pro RTW forces is illogical. They tell us how few people belong to unions but it's the "power of the unions" that are destroying the state. They claim that this isn't about breaking unions. Then what's the point? If a company doesn't want to have to deal with unions, making Michigan a RTW state doesn't prevent unions from organizing. What's the fairy dust that comes with RTW that magically make Michigan attractive to unions?

**ghettopalmetto** · December-10-12, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

The logic of the pro RTW forces is illogical. They tell us how few people belong to unions but it's the "power of the unions" that are destroying the state. They claim that this isn't about breaking unions. Then what's the point? If a company doesn't want to have to deal with unions, making Michigan a RTW state doesn't prevent unions from organizing. What's the fairy dust that comes with RTW that magically make Michigan attractive to unions?

Because the pro-RTW folks see themselves as the next Rockefeller or Carnegie, and lust for the glory days of the 1890s.

**jackie5275** · December-10-12, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Frankg

5) What this is really about is reducing political opposition to conservative agendas.

BING BING BING BING BING BING BING!!!! We have a winner. This statement hits the nail on the head. [[BTW, the bings are supposed to be a bell sound, nothing to do with the mayor.)

**Jimaz** · December-10-12, 02:50 PM

If all the one percenters are now claiming to be "job creators" then just who the hell was responsible for all that offshoring over the last few decades? The janitors? The burger flippers?

JVB · December-10-12, 03:43 PM

The 7 states with the lowest unemployment rate are all Right To Work States [[North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Iowa, Utah, Wyoming and Oklahoma). Meanwhile we have the 6th highest unemployment rate in the country and we're begging to keep the status quo?

**ghettopalmetto** · December-10-12, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

The 7 states with the lowest unemployment rate are all Right To Work States [[North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Iowa, Utah, Wyoming and Oklahoma). Meanwhile we have the 6th highest unemployment rate in the country and we're begging to keep the status quo?

And just ahead of Michigan, at 9.3% unemployment, is North Carolina--not only a right-to-work state, but the most anti-union state in the nation.

What's your point? That you like to cherry-pick data?

**Jimaz** · December-10-12, 03:58 PM

This is the lead story on Thom Hartmann today.

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » #1504

JVB · December-10-12, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What's your point? That you like to cherry-pick data?

Actually, yes. That was my point. Every piece of data posted in this thread has been cherry picked to support the preconceived beliefs of the person posting it. People saying Michigan is going to turn into Michissippi and other snarky remarks are completely missing the fact that there hundreds or thousands of different factors that influence job growth in a region. Right To Work is obviously better than Pro-Union in terms of luring new large employers, but that doesn't mean it will have an overall positive influence on the area. It also doesn't mean it will have a negative influence on the area.

People are so uninformed about economics in general that they look at one factor out of hundreds and proclaim themselves Nostradamus. There is no way to know what the overall impact of RTW legislation would be on the state, but we do know that doing things the same way we always have is going to land us in the same place we keep finding ourselves - broke and with no jobs.

The part about keeping the status quo is the real point. And I love to watch Republicans and Democrats tie themselves into knots trying to justify the contradictory positions of "their" party on so many things. It's actually quite entertaining.

**Maof** · December-10-12, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Being one who crossed a picket line with pride and was hired in even though I refused to join the union I can't wait until they go away! Unions now are just to coddle lazy useless workers not to help the "working man". Oh by the way I ended up being paid more with better benefits than long time union employees!

"cross the line with pride"..... if it wasn't for the union, you'd be making piss for a living. now you go away.

JVB · December-10-12, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Maof

if it wasn't for the union, you'd be making piss for a living. now you go away.

Explain that to every person that ever started their own business.

**michimoby** · December-10-12, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

100% of workers already have the right to not join a union. apart from that, if you don't want to work in a union shop, DON'T APPLY THERE.

And odds are your wages are higher BECAUSE of unions, whether your company is unionized or not.

For someone like me, applying for a job in a non-union shop isn't a big deal. Most jobs at my educational level simply aren't unionized [[and I don't really think neither tech entrepreneurs nor strategy consultants nor non-profit executives were ever unionized).

But for a skilled tradesman/woman, it's a different ballgame. I wouldn't want to restrict them from taking a job at GM simply because they choose not to join a union. If anything, I would hope the union provides enough of a value proposition to justify its existence and convince a worker to join [[sans the use of intimidation). It seems like the fact that unions are concerned about their vitality and longevity means they're not quite secure in what value they actually bring.

JVB · December-10-12, 06:44 PM

Exactly. If unions were so beneficial, people would be lining up to join them and happily pay their dues. Right To Work just allows Unions the opportunity to compete and convince people that they are worth joining. It doesn't eliminate them - they'll only disappear if what they offer isn't worth what they cost to be a part of.