Have you given Detroit and Metro Detroit an ultimatum before you leave?

**maverick1** · November-23-12, 09:48 AM

I'm a professional in my mid 30s. Born and raised in Detroit. I want to stay here but at this point I refuse to deal with the current situation or a situation worse than the current one. I'm not moving to the suburbs because I like big city life. Personally I'm giving the city another 4-5 years. If I see no significant improvement in a positive direction I'm gone. Have you given Metro-Detroit or Detroit an ultimatum?

**313WX** · November-23-12, 10:13 AM

As you know, I'm feeling about the same way as you. And I'm not just a city person, I'm a big city person.

The deal breaker would be if all of the communities could merge to become "Detroit", which isn't going to happen.

The actions under the CA are just confirming my decision to leave.

Otherwise, Detroit will merely be a place for me to visit occasionally.

**Zacha341** · November-23-12, 10:32 AM

In a way I'd leave now if I could do so... but I have family, cultural and a primary employment connection. Thankfully, I don't own property in Detroit so I don't have that issue, so I am weighing my options. The high CRIME and lack of city services is my main reason to want to get out...

I like city and suburban life for varied reasons and engage in both as I've work in many suburbs over the last 25 years. And I go in an out of the city very frequently.

**Hamtragedy** · November-23-12, 10:54 AM

The fact that police were finding body parts in the neighborhood directly behind me, coupled with trying to keep that information from my wife, in addition to the "needing more than two hands" to keep track of all the craziness wasn't enough. This lifelong Detroiter, DPS grad, rec center volunteer was done cheerleading, but content, until.......

We stumbled into a way-cool 93 year old unbastardised craftsman four-square decked out in mahogany trim, panelling, french-doors, [[all unpainted), new wiring, new plumbing, new privacy fence and stamped concrete driveway, all on a corner lot pushing 13,900 sq. feet, across from a park, 15 minutes from downtown, bank-owned for under 100K.

My ultimatum dropped into my lap, and I no longer have to unload my truck every single night. Someone else's turn to cheerlead.

**corktownyuppie** · November-23-12, 11:16 AM

I grew up in East English Village. I left a long, long time ago; there's no need for ultimatums. Living in Corktown now, I'm very bullish. Would I like things to get better? Of course. But here we're not dealing with the problems that I dealt with in EEV with lots of petty crime, blight, burglaries, etc.

Instead of ultimatums, I'd love to see all of you who are thinking about leaving Detroit to come move to the areas in the city that seem viable for the mid- to long-term, such as Grandmont Rosedale, Indian Village, Midtown/Downtown, Corktown/Lafayette Park, University Park, Palmer Woods, Southwest Detroit, etc. Real estate is cheap, cheap, cheap....and you all seem like the kinds of neighbors who care about taking care of the property and the people around you.

I emphasize that I'm not asking you to abandon your homes and neighborhoods to come to mine; I'm simply stating that if you're so fed up that you're leaving anyway, then why not still support the city and reinforce those areas that are solid or solidifying.

The problem in Detroit isn't that the people here don't care. The problem is that the people who do care have way too much ground to cover.

There's a real estate boom going on in the neighborhoods I've been looking at. 3 times in 2 weeks I've been outbid by buyers who are paying over the asking price by 10-20%. Reasonable properties that are move-in ready are moving off of inventory in less than 30-45 days.

Even my parents, who'd sworn off the city back in 2001, have enjoyed the housing search and are now considering one day moving back. Hm.

**Honky Tonk** · November-23-12, 12:05 PM

I live and own property in one of your mentioned areas. Though it's better then some of the other inner city areas, it's far from being a "good" area. I'm just plain tired of looking over my shoulder, and finding "surprises" when I return from work, or go out to my car. I'm lucky to have conscientious neighbors, but they can't be on guard 24-7, and I don't expect them to be. And even IF they do see crime, what are your plans of action? Call the DPD? "Has anyone been shot", "No", "Are the perps gone" "they're heading to the car, I have the plate #", "well you're going to have to come down to the station during our normal business hours between 7 a.m.and 5 p.m. daily and make out a police report". What's next, confrontation? Now before there's a mad rush to the keyboard to post "crime happens everywhere", it certainly does, but not with the intensity and frequency that it happens in Detroit. To paraphrase Hamtragedy, "I'm tired of emptying out my truck nightly". I have friends living in avariety of "'burb" areas, and seriously, living there isn't that bad. I'm tired of taxation without representation, I'm tired of reading about Civil Servants either mispending or with their fingers in the cookie jar, I'm tired of reading about the City Council and Mayoral hijinx. The biggest issue is that there is no light @ the end of Detroit's tunnel, just a burned out broken bulb. Tracy Chapman sang "Give me one reason to stay here, and I'll turn myself around". Can't find one, other then I'm fighting the good fight and losing. I agree, "someone else's turn to cheerlead".

**Zacha341** · November-23-12, 12:14 PM

Yep, I agree HT. You really don't realize how much you're adapting or will need to adapt to live in Detroit - like just maintaining your personal valuables in your car or your actual car and let's not mention breakins. And as I said before I'd not LIVE IN DETROIT in a single family home. Just wouldn't. Not now. But it is doable [[when you're not too isolated) but you must be VERY VIGILANT. And all of that gets tiresome... expending energy and resources that could be put to use for something else.

And yes, that tired canard "crime happens everywhere" IS BEYOND USELESS! The crime [[murder, robberies, breakins etc) percentage is very high, right now, where WE LIVE - in our face daily! SO, if 'percentages' mean nothing then let us dispense with the use of calculators or perhaps ignore the next 10% discount when shopping!

**MidTownMs** · November-23-12, 12:30 PM

I left Detroit because I no longer felt safe. Everybody talks about all these great communities: Lafayette Park, Indian Village, Mid-Town, Rosedale Park, etc., etc., I have lived in all but Rosedale Park. When I left I lived in Mid-Town. But it didn't matter where I lived it was still Detroit with the same mess. Corruption from the mayor's office down. Elected officials only out for what they can get to improve their lives. Staggering crimes rates with no end in sight. Finally I decided that the quality of my life was more important than my loyalty to Detroit. So a few months ago I left.

**Zacha341** · November-23-12, 12:35 PM

^^^ I feel you on that MTMs. The number one reservation about living here is safety, or shall I say the general lack thereof. I've traveled a bit and know what is like to feel and KNOW the setting is at least 'safer' percentage wise. When you experience that, you want more of it.

serpico · November-23-12, 12:41 PM

I hear the concerns.. I recently bought a house in River Rouge for under $2000 and am in the process of rehabing it then moving in. With my income drastically reduced and not wanting to pay rent or have another mortgage my options are limited. I gave it a thought to buy in Detroit but could not do it. The attitudes of young people hanging outside of houses I was looking at made my decission not to buy in Detroit.

JVB · November-23-12, 12:44 PM

I grew up in the city and love the city, but when I had kids it was time to move out to the burbs. Until Detroit fixes it's crime problem and failed school system it will never attract families on any scale, and families are what makes a neighborhood strong.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem though, since fixing these problems will take an increased tax base that will only come from people and business moving back to the city, but with current tax rates too high fewer people are willing to make that jump.

We have a few pockets of encouragement, but any overall strategy needs to find a way to bridge these pockets into larger cohesive areas. The current leadership seems hell bent on preventing any of that from taking place. It is SO FRUSTRATING when I see cities like Pittsburgh that have made such an amazing transition and we're stuck with these useless idiots preventing Detroit from reinventing itself into something new.

**Gistok** · November-23-12, 02:17 PM

My question to those who don't live in downtown or Midtown... how is the rest of Detroit's neighborhoolds housing stock and layout any different from the enner suburbs? If you live in Rosemont... how is that any different than parts of Royal Oak? Palmer Woods, how does that differ from the Grosse Pointes? St. Clair Shores any different from Balduck Park?

Once you leave downtown an midtown, you can't really tell where the city ends and the suburbs start. So why do some of you make believe that there is some great distinguishable difference when there isn't any?... besides police response time, and taxes? And I'm not talking 23 Mile Rd.... but the outer city neighborhoods and the inner burbs....

SCS is only 20 min. from downtown... about the same distance that the Redford area of Detroit is. Does actually living in he city somehow make life more enjoyable... and add to "urban living"? I don't think so...

**Honky Tonk** · November-23-12, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

My question to those who don't live in downtown or Midtown... how is the rest of Detroit's neighborhoolds housing stock and layout any different from the enner suburbs? If you live in Rosemont... how is that any different than parts of Royal Oak? Palmer Woods, how does that differ from the Grosse Pointes? St. Clair Shores any different from Balduck Park?

Once you leave downtown an midtown, you can't really tell where the city ends and the suburbs start. So why do some of you make believe that there is some great distinguishable difference when there isn't any?... besides police response time, and taxes? And I'm not talking 23 Mile Rd.... but the outer city neighborhoods and the inner burbs....

SCS is only 20 min. from downtown... about the same distance that the Redford area of Detroit is. Does actually living in he city somehow make life more enjoyable... and add to "urban living"? I don't think so...

No offense intended, Gistok, but I don't understand your question. If your saying/implying that living in Rosedale Park is the same as Royal Oak, that's nonsense. Royal Oak has a higher cost of living then Rosedale Park, but I'm starting to think the extra money is worth it to live in a real functional, safe city. If you're saying "it's only a 20 minute drive from Royal Oak to Detroit, why go through the grief of living in Detroit? Then I totally agree with you.

**MidTownMs** · November-23-12, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

No offense intended, Gistok, but I don't understand your question. If your saying/implying that living in Rosedale Park is the same as Royal Oak, that's nonsense. Royal Oak has a higher cost of living then Rosedale Park, but I'm starting to think the extra money is worth it to live in a real functional, safe city. If you're saying "it's only a 20 minute drive from Royal Oak to Detroit, why go through the grief of living in Detroit? Then I totally agree with you.

I'm not sure if the cost of living in Royal Oak is more than Rosedale Park. My brother lives on an absolutely beautiful street in Rosedale Park. What he pays in security and insurance [[house & car) alone would probably pay the house payment in Royal Oak. I think one of the reasons people leave Detroit is because they can't afford own a decent house, send their kids to a decent school, and live in a decent community in Detroit. Not to mention the amount of gas spent just to find a places to shop and buy groceries or a gas station that they're not afraid to get out of their car to pump gas and many other things people in Royal take for granted that Detroiter's have to deal with every day. After a while it just doesn't make sense to stay so you cut your losses and leave.

**lpg** · November-23-12, 07:20 PM

I grew up and continue to live in Lincoln Park. My family has had roots here since 1914, ever since my moms parents moved from Detroit. We are seeing the same thing happening here as in Detroit. Empty homes, slumlords buying up cheap properties and turning them into uninspected rentals. Complaints to the city go unanswered. A disfunctional city council [[clowncil). The school system is unreal. We went for several months without our street being swept, but every week we could see the sweepers working hard keeping the streets clean in the "nicer" part of town. About the only city people you can depend on is the Fire Department. I found a set of keys and a debit card laying next to my car. I called and the officer that responded was more interested in the fact that I had no police record. As the reporting person he had asked me for ID. If I had the means, I would leave the metro area and never look back.

**Hamtragedy** · November-23-12, 10:01 PM

Midtownms you hit the nail on the head. As far as I'm concerned it is so much more expensive to live in the city than it is in the suburbs, especially if your priorities are to live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with decent schools and nearby amenities. I just lucked out and just found my dream-house, the taxes are lower than they would be in Grandmont / Rosedale or Green acres, and the insurance rates are in half for both cars and the house.

**Hypestyles** · November-23-12, 10:16 PM

I've lived and worked in the city for the past 20 years.. not "born and raised" but always had family here and visited regularly before settling here after high school..
I'm not giving the city/region/state another year. I'm finally finishing undergrad this fall, and I'm actively looking for paid fellowships/new-grad opportunities elsewhere. I'm trying to transition out of nonprofit outreach/support work to journalism/media; and of course, no one's just giving up their seats just because there are new graduates..
If nothing else, the ongoing toxicity in state, regional and local government has become abhorrent to me. Killing mass transit was in some sense the "final" blow for me-- no I don't think the downtown-to-8-mile rail line was a magic bullet, but it was a start. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the tea-party acolytes in the state legislature to come together on an RTA vote, and add in the Detroit reps whose ideology is "anything city owned is a black owned business by default so anything regionalized = slavery [[even if the current status quo on service delivery is god-awful)"..
the horrible public safety response in Detroit is inexcusable. the current mayoral administration is maddeningly flip-flopping on various fronts.. Detroit is in too desperate shape for incrementalism.. that's not good enough for me..
I'm sick of paying out the nose for car insurance.. and I'm sick of being told that i'm not civilized if I don't feel like driving everywhere that I need to go..
I have no great anticipation for what awaits the public school system.. we'll see what happens, if anything, now that PA4 is overturned, but I predict more systemic dysfunciton and bureaucratic messes to come, regardless.
Matty Moroun is a shameful example of the manipulation a moneyed party can initiate on a whim.. I'm not a big fan of Snyder, but I can see more people in Detroit swayed that the new bridge project is some super-conspiracy just because of Snyder's GOP status, before they actually do some digging to see just who is behind the bridge ads and why.. oh, well.. I'm sure Buffalo will appreciate a new bridge..

**p69rrh51** · November-24-12, 12:07 AM

I have lived in Grosse Pointe for the last 43 years, and the previous 7 in Detroit. I have NO plans of going anywhere!

**erikd** · November-24-12, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by maverick1

I'm a professional in my mid 30s. Born and raised in Detroit. I want to stay here but at this point I refuse to deal with the current situation or a situation worse than the current one. I'm not moving to the suburbs because I like big city life. Personally I'm giving the city another 4-5 years. If I see no significant improvement in a positive direction I'm gone. Have you given Metro-Detroit or Detroit an ultimatum?

This is a good question.

I have a different take than most of the other posters on this thread. I have been thinking about an ultimatum, but it has more to do with the overall state of services and conditions in the region and state, not just in the city.

If I were to move out of the city and into the suburbs, the police response and schools would probably be better, but the mass transit and roads would still suck. Many of my friends and family live in suburban areas with very few streetlights, so I'm not sure how that is better than living in a city neighborhood with half the lights working.

People in metro Detroit have been playing the "run away from our problems" game for decades, and the problems just keep getting worse. Even if you leave the city for the suburbs, there is a decent chance that the suburb you move to will be declining as well. I don't see much long-term upside in most inner-ring suburbs, and I have no interest in living in some far-flung exurb where I have to drive 30-45 minutes just to get to work or go to an entertainment/cultural event. Running away from the problems in the city is not a solution for me, it is just trading one type of dysfunction for another.

If I leave the city of Detroit, I will be leaving Michigan as well. Better police response, with longer commutes, shitty roads and no mass transit is not a win for me, it's a wash at best. If I move, I'm not looking for a wash...

**Honky Tonk** · November-24-12, 09:09 AM

"People in metro Detroit have been playing the "run away from our problems" game for decades, and the problems just keep getting worse."

People being forced to leave Detroit because of unresolveable issues doesn't constitute "running away". Start reading the news. I still don't see the governing body in Detroit making any consolidated effort to find or bring about a unified solution to it's problems. It just seems like the SOS to me, "just give me more money so I can keep conducting business as usual". THAT'S why people leave, they're tired of it. Quit blaming people for wanting a better quality of life.

"Many of my friends and family live in suburban areas with very few streetlights"

That may be true due to MI's ongoing exodus and lack of tax base, but are your friends being robbed, home invaded, or car-jacked because of it? If they are, do the authorities show up in a reasonable amount of time and actually intervene?

As far as leaving MI, I totally agree. I'm tired of driving white-knuckled on snow covered freeways, early in the a.m., so I can get to work, so I can pay my taxes, and get little in return. It just doesn't make much sense to me. There are places in this country that are thriving, with a high employment rate, and a good quality of life. You want people to stay, give them a solid reason, not ideology.

**maverick1** · November-25-12, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I grew up in East English Village. I left a long, long time ago; there's no need for ultimatums. Living in Corktown now, I'm very bullish. Would I like things to get better? Of course. But here we're not dealing with the problems that I dealt with in EEV with lots of petty crime, blight, burglaries, etc.

Instead of ultimatums, I'd love to see all of you who are thinking about leaving Detroit to come move to the areas in the city that seem viable for the mid- to long-term, such as Grandmont Rosedale, Indian Village, Midtown/Downtown, Corktown/Lafayette Park, University Park, Palmer Woods, Southwest Detroit, etc. Real estate is cheap, cheap, cheap....and you all seem like the kinds of neighbors who care about taking care of the property and the people around you.

I've considered Rosedale, University District, and Sherwood Forest. The problem I have is that those neighborhoods are still lacking. If I could have stores in those neighborhoods similar to what you can find in Midtown, Main St. in Royal Oak, or 9 Mile in Ferndale I'd be content.

**maverick1** · November-25-12, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by erikd

People in metro Detroit have been playing the "run away from our problems" game for decades, and the problems just keep getting worse. Even if you leave the city for the suburbs, there is a decent chance that the suburb you move to will be declining as well. I don't see much long-term upside in most inner-ring suburbs, and I have no interest in living in some far-flung exurb where I have to drive 30-45 minutes just to get to work or go to an entertainment/cultural event. Running away from the problems in the city is not a solution for me, it is just trading one type of dysfunction for another.

If I leave the city of Detroit, I will be leaving Michigan as well. Better police response, with longer commutes, shitty roads and no mass transit is not a win for me, it's a wash at best. If I move, I'm not looking for a wash...

erikd, I also will leave the state. It's not just "Detroit" it's Metro Detroit that I will leave. For a lot people including me it's not Detroit but the region as a whole that is unsatisfying right now. Moving to the suburbs is not the answer for me. The problem still exists. In the suburbs it's just easier to turn a blind eye b/c you're isolated from the problems of this region. So the region is still declining but on an individual level it's not hurting you directly enough to feel it.

**maverick1** · November-25-12, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by MidTownMs

I left Detroit because I no longer felt safe. Everybody talks about all these great communities: Lafayette Park, Indian Village, Mid-Town, Rosedale Park, etc., etc., I have lived in all but Rosedale Park. When I left I lived in Mid-Town. But it didn't matter where I lived it was still Detroit with the same mess. Corruption from the mayor's office down. Elected officials only out for what they can get to improve their lives. Staggering crimes rates with no end in sight. Finally I decided that the quality of my life was more important than my loyalty to Detroit. So a few months ago I left.

I use to live in Boston Edison. Boston Edison like other nice neighborhoods in Detroit are islands surrounded by terrible to semi-terrible neighborhoods. There is no buffer. You step outside Boston Edison, Indian Village, its a very steep decline in the area. No gradual change at all.

**Vic_doucette** · November-27-12, 05:41 PM

How goes one give an ultimatum to a city or a region? It's not like it can answer you.

I was born in the city and my family moved to the suburbs when I was 10 years old. I bounced around to a few places in a few states and wound up back in my suburban home at age 30.

A couple years later I met a woman who owned a house in the city. I fell in love with her and moved in to her beautiful home in what they now call Morningside.

The first dozen or so years were pretty good. The neighborhood had its scruffy traits, but we had pretty much everything we needed. Then, things started to go downhill.

A bad, violent neighbor and a police force that didn't seem interested in dealing with the issue was a big problem. The constant wear and tear on our knees from having to go up and down stairs a dozen or more times a day added to the problem. We found spent shell casings in the driveway one morning, and that scared us. The day-to-day aggravations of living in an increasingly dysfunctional city were grinding us down.

Then, the tipping point.

We were going to leave the house very early the morning before trash pickup day and weren't going to be home until late the next evening, so we put the trash out before we left.

When we got home the next evening, we found an official city warning notice taped to our front door. The notice said we had been busted for putting the trash out too early. If we were caught doing it again, we would be fined between $100 and $10,000.

The trash was in a Courville can with a working lid. It wasn't blowing around, wasn't overfilled, wasn't creating any hazards to health or traffic. Meantime, the house next door has Visqueen taking the place of a couple windows, had gutters that were falling off the roof and was generally in very poor repair. There were a couple other houses on the street [[Bedford, the first block north of Warren) that were nearly as bad, mixed in among all the other houses that were cared for and in good shape.

If Detroit could afford me the services of, say, Birmingham, this wouldn't have angered me. But in a city where I can't depend on getting help if I call 911, hassling me over a garbage can being put out too early was the last straw.

We started looking, and found a lovely ranch house in a suburb. The first time I opened the door after taking possession of the house, the burglar alarm that the previous owners had armed that morning out of habit went off, and I had no idea how to turn it off. The cops were there in less than three minutes. They figured out quickly that it wasn't a break-in, laughed about the experience, called the alarm company and got the alarm turned off, and went on their way. That was more than seven years ago. I'm still happy to live in that house; I hope to stay here for many more years.

I had occasion to drive through my old neighborhood a couple months ago. I'm glad I got out in time.