Traffic Signals Suddenly Disappearing Around Detroit...

**313WX** · November-08-12, 10:32 PM

I'm not talking about the signals at intersections of streets where there aren't a lot of people around anymore, but still relatively busy intersections.

Namely, the ones I've encountered are 7 Mile/Chalmers and Warren/Van Dyke over here on the eastside.

Anyone know what's going on? The traffic signals are gone entirely [[no sign of new ones being put up). Warren/Van Dyke is now a 4-way stop while 7 Mile/Chalmers had no stop signs.

I know Bing/Snyder plan to remove half of the STREET lights in the city under this Consent Agreement, but I wasn't aware traffic signals would be a part of it as well, particularly at intersections such as the aforementioned.

**brizee** · November-08-12, 10:35 PM

I haven't noticed this phenomenon yet.

Could scrappers really be Billy Badass to strip from huge highway intersections?

**Zacha341** · November-08-12, 10:51 PM

^^^^ Dangy! The scrappers are really getting bold! He-heh ---

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**Detroit Signal** · November-08-12, 11:13 PM

Interesting!

First, I highly doubt scrappers are stealing signals. They are made of plastic, not aluminum anymore.

Second, the city has definitely been hard at work to eliminate unecessary signals to save money, releive congestion, etc. HOWEVER, signals cannot be removed without a traffic engineering study to determine if vehicle volumes warrant a downgrade/removal.

Third, I looked at the two intersections mentioned above and am more concerned that the 7/Chalmers light is gone and am guessing there is a lot of foot traffic that would need a signalized crossing. very weird......

Lastly, I have seen intersections remain dark for months when PLD used to maintain, becuase of no replacement controllers, red tape, etc. Now that private contractors do maint., lights are repaired faster.

The city had decommissioned about 100 signalized intersections in the last ten years.

**Gannon** · November-09-12, 08:07 AM

I think it is a social experiment.

Everything was out on St. Jean between Mack and Warren the other night.

Two t-bone accidents.

That new 4-way stop at Warren and Van Dyke?

T-bone accident.

None seemed life-threatening, but a whole lot of property damage and inconvenienced people who now know that a downed stoplight is to be treated as a full-four-way stop, not a "Detroit Stop".

It was silly.

Then again, I almost drove up into an unbelievable accident at Mack and Alter just the other afternoon where an oblivious young woman simply ran the light at the SAME time a gang-banger decided to speed through the intersection.

She didn't know what hit her, as she spun around twice before ending up ass-end into that impromptu garden on the south-east corner. He was a little pissed off. I didn't wait to see how he dealt with this scene.

And that in an intersection fully functioning...and usually observed by one of GPP's finest.

**313WX** · November-09-12, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I think it is a social experiment.

Everything was out on St. Jean between Mack and Warren the other night.

Two t-bone accidents.

That new 4-way stop at Warren and Van Dyke?

T-bone accident.

None seemed life-threatening, but a whole lot of property damage and inconvenienced people who now know that a downed stoplight is to be treated as a full-four-way stop, not a "Detroit Stop".

It was silly.

Then again, I almost drove up into an unbelievable accident at Mack and Alter just the other afternoon where an oblivious young woman simply ran the light at the SAME time a gang-banger decided to speed through the intersection.

She didn't know what hit her, as she spun around twice before ending up ass-end into that impromptu garden on the south-east corner. He was a little pissed off. I didn't wait to see how he dealt with this scene.

And that in an intersection fully functioning...and usually observed by one of GPP's finest.

Well I'm not going to be a part of ANYONE'S social experiment, so that's even more of a convincing reason for me to get out of Michigan now [[assuming that's the case).

But I was especially surprised by the 7 Mile/Chalmers intersection, which is quite congested during the day being near the activity around that Post Office and the shopping plazas on 7 Mile and Gratiot [[and of course that ratched Valero Gas Station).

And even Warren is pretty busy during the morning rush hour as people from the far east side and GP tend to use it as an alternative to I-94 to reach downtown/midtown.

Detroit Signal brings up a good point about the engineering study too. It used to be if a traffic signal was a candidate for removal, there would be a sign posted letting people know that it was under study for removal.

**Gannon** · November-09-12, 09:00 AM

Yeah, they're changing the traffic lights...you'd better leave.

I cannot imagine what any of those are like during rush hour.

People just don't seem to know what to do when a light is out.

That IS still in the driver's handbook, as far as I know.

Then again, we argue about what to do when the light is working, depending upon the time of day.

Maybe we can turn this town around by enforcing stop signs and lights...and jaywalking. Heck, walking in the street is consistently more dangerous to pedestrians than any unworking traffic light.

<ugh>

**DetroitPlanner** · November-09-12, 09:06 AM

Gannon, neither a stop sign or signal will prevent a T-bone. The only intersections that do are traffic circles. In many areas of Detroit the traffic has unfortunately decreased. This could be because less population, fewer drivers [[insurance may be too high to afford a car), or a combination of both. Traffic signals are costly to install and maintain. The LED ones have decreased costs, but the installation costs are sky-high. Regular bulbs need constant maintenance. When looking at reduced costs, and the reality that a stop sign should eliminate anyone legally going through an intersection without yielding, the stop sign is a good alternative.

Unfortunately, you can't fix stupid people from doing stupid things like blowing through stop signs without looking.

**poobert** · November-09-12, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I think it is a social experiment.

Everything was out on St. Jean between Mack and Warren the other night.

Two t-bone accidents.

That new 4-way stop at Warren and Van Dyke?

T-bone accident.

None seemed life-threatening, but a whole lot of property damage and inconvenienced people who now know that a downed stoplight is to be treated as a full-four-way stop, not a "Detroit Stop".

It was silly.

Then again, I almost drove up into an unbelievable accident at Mack and Alter just the other afternoon where an oblivious young woman simply ran the light at the SAME time a gang-banger decided to speed through the intersection.

She didn't know what hit her, as she spun around twice before ending up ass-end into that impromptu garden on the south-east corner. He was a little pissed off. I didn't wait to see how he dealt with this scene.

And that in an intersection fully functioning...and usually observed by one of GPP's finest.

Detroit drivers win the Darwin award at intersections and stop signs. Traffic lights and stop signs especially are religiously ignored.

We have a bunch of two way stops in my neighborhood that all of us normal folks treat as four way stops. To do otherwise would be suicidal.

For a city with such high unemployment and virtually no surviving retail, where the fuck are these losers in such a hurry to get to?

Anyway, the four-way at Van Dyke and Warren is not permanent[[you can plainly see the stop signs are not in the ground). From what I gathered on the radio on my way to work the day it happened, the traffic light was taken out by a semi. DPD blocked off the intersection and detoured us. I saw the light on the ground.

**Gannon** · November-09-12, 09:24 AM

In Oakland County, it used to take five deaths before a traffic light was installed...even for left turns. Got that gem while investigating getting one installed for a 'new' strip mall at Rochester Road and M-59 in the late-80s.

What're the odds on the Warren/Van Dyke light? Date they install it, and the derivative of how many accidents happen before they finish.

I'll keep an eye on St. Jean, although I'm going to avoid my new Warren route for the while.

**noggin** · November-09-12, 09:41 AM

Anybody who drives East Jefferson will see traffic lights at cross streets that come out from abandoned neighborhoods with virtually no traffic. They are very rarely timed for smooth traffic flow. However since the city received all that stimulus money to upgrade the lights they probably will never be removed.

**rutlev** · November-09-12, 11:25 AM

I can think of a few intersections that don't need a light - Michigan at 6th? now that the casino is gone, don't need that light. Bagley & 14th - never understood that one at all and
many more all down Michigan Ave heading west.

**GPCharles** · November-09-12, 11:44 AM

I have noticed a few signals on East Jefferson that have disappeared.

**detroitbob** · November-09-12, 05:08 PM

Nothing new...the city started turning signal lights into flashing stop/caution, then turned them off and now removing [[or scrapping). I first noticed this starting 10 years ago at scattered secondary streets in S'west Detroit and adjoining areas.

**Detroit Signal** · November-09-12, 06:41 PM

To the best of my recollection, here are about 100 intersections that were decommissioned during the last 10 years. Feel free to add:

1. CASSAND HENRY
2. CLIFFORDAND HENRY
3. CLIFFORDAND ADAMS
4. SECONDAND HENRY
5. CASSAND ELIZABETH
6. CLIFFORDAND ELIZABETH
7. COLUMBIAAND CLIFFORD
8. PARKAND ELIZABETH
9. BUCHANANAND VINEWOOD
10. 24^TH ANDBUCHANAN
11. LAWTON AND BUCHANAN
12. JOY RD AND ABINGTON
13. CONGRESS E AND STAUBIN
14. ST AUBIN AND CANFIELD
15. DEQUINDRE ANDCANFIELD
16. MADISON AND WITHERELL
17. PARK AND ADAMS
18. HARPER AND BRUSH
19. JOHN R AND PIQUETTE
20. JOHN R AND HARPER
21. BRUSH AND FORT E.
22. SCHOOLCRAFT AND STOUT
23. BUCHANAN AND SCOTTEN
24. E GRAND BLVD ANDCONCORD
25. CASS AND STATE
26. RUSSELL AND CANFIELDE
27. HARPER AND RUSSELL
28. DEQUINDRE AND VICTOR
29. JEFFERSON W AND ZUG
30. 14^TH ANDBUCHANAN
31. KERCHEVAL ANDDICKERSON
32. GRAND RIVER AND PINE
33. GRAND RIVER AND FIFTH
34. 12^THANDTEMPLE
35. KERCHEVAL ANDLAKEVIEW
36. KERCHEVAL AND GARLAND
37. KERCHEVAL AND TOWNSEND
38. KERCHEVAL AND CONCORD
39. CHARLEVOIX ANDELMWOOD
40. FIRST AND HOWARD
41. E GRAND BLVD ANDOAKLAND
42. CANFIELD E ANDMCDOUGALL
43. CANFIELD E ANDDICKERSON
44. CHRYSLER AND FERRY E
45. THIRD AND PURITAN
46. THIRD AND CALVERT
47. THIRD AND HAZELWOOD
48. SECOND AND SEARS
49. DEARBORN ST AND I-75
50. FISHER AND WATERMAN
51. FISHER AND GREEN
52. LAFAYETTE W ANDDRAGOON
53. MICHIGAN AND COCHRANE
54. CHENE AND MACOMB
55. MC DOUGALL ANDFREDERICK
56. HORTON AND CAMERON
57. BRUSH AND BETHUNE
58. JOHN R AND BETHUNE
59. BRUSH AND EUCLID
60. 12^THANDJEFFERSON W
61. 12^THANDEDSEL FORD
62. 14^TH AND WLAFAYETTE
63. FISHER AND WLAFAYETTE
64. CENTRAL AND WLAFAYETTE
65. WOODROW WILSON ANDCALVERT
66. VAN DYKE AND ELAFAYETTE
67. TIREMAN AND FAUST
68. ST CYRIL AND MILLER
69. CONCORD AND MILLER

**Detroit Signal** · November-09-12, 06:43 PM

70. 14TH ANDTEMPLE
71. GRATIOT AND BELLEVUE
72. 14TH ANDCALVERT
73. 12TH ANDCALVERT
74. LAWTON AND MCGRAW
75. MORAN AND E GRANDBLVD
76. SECOND AND EUCLID
77. SECOND AND HAZELWOOD
78. THIRD AND EUCLID
79. MAPLEWOOD ANDBEECHWOOD
80. JOHN R AND OWEN
81. BRUSH AND OWEN
82. BEAUBIEN AND PIQUETTE
83. BRUSH AND PIQUETTE
84. BROADSTREET AND KAY
85. JOY AND BEECHWOOD
86. CONCORD AND ELAFAYETTE
87. E GRAND BLVD AND FREDERICK
88. VAN DYKE ANDFREDERICK
89. CHENE AND CANFIELD
90. CHICAGO AND LAWTON
91. MCDOUGALL AND FERRY E
92. ST ANTOINE AND FERRYE
93. JOY AND ABBINGTON
94. SOUTHFIELD AND LYNDON
95. HARPER AND BEAUBIEN
96. MILFORD AND BEECHWOOD
97. GRAND RIVER ANDWREFORD
98. MICHIGAN AND GREUSEL
99. 12TH ANDMCGRAW
100. WGRAND BLVD AND VINEWOOD
101. 2NDAVE AND CANFIELD
102. SCOTTENAND I-94
103. I-96 and UNDERWOOD
104. JEFFERSONAND HART

**jerrytimes** · November-10-12, 10:42 AM

I don't pay attention to signals at night in Detroit anyway, so who cares. I stop, look, drive through at every one. I've been doing it for years.

**Gannon** · November-10-12, 10:58 AM

That is almost the verbal equivalent of a nuclear bomb, Jerry, careful with that.

I've even tried to prove when Mayor Archer issued that executive decree allowing it, especially for suburbanites when they were 'afraid' of waiting for nothing. Got me out of a ticket one morning on Brush, crossing the freeway before the stadiums were built!

Cheers!

**313WX** · November-10-12, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

I don't pay attention to signals at night in Detroit anyway, so who cares. I stop, look, drive through at every one. I've been doing it for years.

I've started doing the same thing, especially with the additional cuts to the street lighting and police department.

Heck, I'd probably be safer stopping along side a cornfield in Iowa with the Children of the Corn. And at least I'll be able to keep most of my tax dollars.

**Junkin4Life** · November-11-12, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit Signal

70. 14TH ANDTEMPLE
71. GRATIOT AND BELLEVUE
72. 14TH ANDCALVERT
73. 12TH ANDCALVERT
74. LAWTON AND MCGRAW
75. MORAN AND E GRANDBLVD
76. SECOND AND EUCLID
77. SECOND AND HAZELWOOD
78. THIRD AND EUCLID
79. MAPLEWOOD ANDBEECHWOOD
80. JOHN R AND OWEN
81. BRUSH AND OWEN
82. BEAUBIEN AND PIQUETTE
83. BRUSH AND PIQUETTE
84. BROADSTREET AND KAY
85. JOY AND BEECHWOOD
86. CONCORD AND ELAFAYETTE
87. E GRAND BLVD AND FREDERICK
88. VAN DYKE ANDFREDERICK
89. CHENE AND CANFIELD
90. CHICAGO AND LAWTON
91. MCDOUGALL AND FERRY E
92. ST ANTOINE AND FERRYE
93. JOY AND ABBINGTON
94. SOUTHFIELD AND LYNDON
95. HARPER AND BEAUBIEN
96. MILFORD AND BEECHWOOD
97. GRAND RIVER ANDWREFORD
98. MICHIGAN AND GREUSEL
99. 12TH ANDMCGRAW
100. WGRAND BLVD AND VINEWOOD
101. 2NDAVE AND CANFIELD
102. SCOTTENAND I-94
103. I-96 and UNDERWOOD
104. JEFFERSONAND HART

Thry should replace all outdated signals with these signals shown below:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/images/sign27.jpg

because its more safer and efficient compared to the ones strung overhead in my opinion

**Junkin4Life** · November-11-12, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit Signal

To the best of my recollection, here are about 100 intersections that were decommissioned during the last 10 years. Feel free to add:

1. CASSAND HENRY
2. CLIFFORDAND HENRY
3. CLIFFORDAND ADAMS
4. SECONDAND HENRY
5. CASSAND ELIZABETH
6. CLIFFORDAND ELIZABETH
7. COLUMBIAAND CLIFFORD
8. PARKAND ELIZABETH
9. BUCHANANAND VINEWOOD
10. 24^TH ANDBUCHANAN
11. LAWTON AND BUCHANAN
12. JOY RD AND ABINGTON
13. CONGRESS E AND STAUBIN
14. ST AUBIN AND CANFIELD
15. DEQUINDRE ANDCANFIELD
16. MADISON AND WITHERELL
17. PARK AND ADAMS
18. HARPER AND BRUSH
19. JOHN R AND PIQUETTE
20. JOHN R AND HARPER
21. BRUSH AND FORT E.
22. SCHOOLCRAFT AND STOUT
23. BUCHANAN AND SCOTTEN
24. E GRAND BLVD ANDCONCORD
25. CASS AND STATE
26. RUSSELL AND CANFIELDE
27. HARPER AND RUSSELL
28. DEQUINDRE AND VICTOR
29. JEFFERSON W AND ZUG
30. 14^TH ANDBUCHANAN
31. KERCHEVAL ANDDICKERSON
32. GRAND RIVER AND PINE
33. GRAND RIVER AND FIFTH
34. 12^THANDTEMPLE
35. KERCHEVAL ANDLAKEVIEW
36. KERCHEVAL AND GARLAND
37. KERCHEVAL AND TOWNSEND
38. KERCHEVAL AND CONCORD
39. CHARLEVOIX ANDELMWOOD
40. FIRST AND HOWARD
41. E GRAND BLVD ANDOAKLAND
42. CANFIELD E ANDMCDOUGALL
43. CANFIELD E ANDDICKERSON
44. CHRYSLER AND FERRY E
45. THIRD AND PURITAN
46. THIRD AND CALVERT
47. THIRD AND HAZELWOOD
48. SECOND AND SEARS
49. DEARBORN ST AND I-75
50. FISHER AND WATERMAN
51. FISHER AND GREEN
52. LAFAYETTE W ANDDRAGOON
53. MICHIGAN AND COCHRANE
54. CHENE AND MACOMB
55. MC DOUGALL ANDFREDERICK
56. HORTON AND CAMERON
57. BRUSH AND BETHUNE
58. JOHN R AND BETHUNE
59. BRUSH AND EUCLID
60. 12^THANDJEFFERSON W
61. 12^THANDEDSEL FORD
62. 14^TH AND WLAFAYETTE
63. FISHER AND WLAFAYETTE
64. CENTRAL AND WLAFAYETTE
65. WOODROW WILSON ANDCALVERT
66. VAN DYKE AND ELAFAYETTE
67. TIREMAN AND FAUST
68. ST CYRIL AND MILLER
69. CONCORD AND MILLER

how about something like this?

http://www.fandwelectrical.com/image...ille_large.jpg

**Zacha341** · November-11-12, 09:48 AM

Rotfl! ---

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Originally Posted by 313wx

heck, i'd probably be safer stopping along side a cornfield in iowa with the children of the corn. And at least i'll be able to keep most of my tax dollars.

**Zacha341** · November-11-12, 09:54 AM

I work not far from Mack and just avoid it all together. I don't know what it is about that area [[and others). I try to stay on the freeway as much as possible and really avoid areas on the east side that I do not know. I had too clods hit me years ago. BOTH were stop sign runners. NO thank you for future interactions when I can avoid them.