Proposal 1 Fails. What Now?

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 05:39 AM

To say I'm disappointed is a gross understatement, but it's time to move forward and understand the ramifications behind PA 4's repeal. The critical questions on my mind at the moment:

- With legal control of DPS' academic house and oversight of teachers' contracts back in the hands of the school board, what pragmatic efforts will be undertaken in order to improve the system's current deplorable state?

- Furthermore, what happens to the EAA?

- What possible recourse, other than bankruptcy, does Detroit now have in order to get its fiscal house in order? Since repealing PA 4 effectively invalidates the consent agreement, what's the next rational step?

Discussing the merits or drawbacks of Proposal 1 is a moot point now; given that this board samples from a refreshingly broad base of Detroiters, I'm curious to hear your thoughts and see what sorts of perspectives we all have regarding next steps.

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 06:08 AM

Vent: I just woke up and saw the results and am really concerned that I moved here.

Deep breath.

Okay, just have to hope for one or all of three things:
1- Legislature passes new EM law. Seems quite difficult to pass in the face of the direct democratic result weve just seen.
2- Muni bankruptcy. Not unlikely before the next mayoral/cc elections. Theres hope here, tho. A federal BK judge may actually be better than an EM.
3- Cc by district. Not much hope this helps, to be honest. Scarily enough, we may actually have 6-7 terrible cc members rather than 4-5 after districting.

Im going to have to read over the consent agmt. I hope to god it wasnt conditioned on the existence of PA 4.

Oy vey.

**Vic01** · November-07-12, 06:18 AM

here's your answer -

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...cy-manager-law
"Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville says he and fellow Republicans have a proposal for a law to replace the one shot down by voters, but haven't released details because it's under legal review".

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 06:43 AM

Anyone can propose anything; we need it to pass.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 08:04 AM

State Proposal 1 fails, likely due to a high proportion of Detroiters opposing it.

However, in the same breath...Detroit Proposal C passes overwhelmingly, granting uninterrupted legal powers to an unelected official.

This city has gone beyond ludicrous -- we've gone PLAID! :\

**313WX** · November-07-12, 08:39 AM

Common sense finally prevails in the state of Michigan.

Bankruptcy is the right recourse.

Detroit [[and even Michigan) will be better off for it.

EDIT: I also can't wait to see the lawsuits that will start flying.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Common sense finally prevails in the state of Michigan.

Bankruptcy is the right recourse.

Detroit [[and even Michigan) will be better off for it.

EDIT: I also can't wait to see the lawsuits that will start flying.

Bankruptcy is a scary, scary weapon in this fight. But in some respects, it is the right recourse that calls the question: what once could only be enforced by a single appointed EFM [[such as union pension cuts) now has the federal, legal standing to back it up....

...which means that either the unions will negotiate, or riot. That sounds only slightly scary. :\

**313WX** · November-07-12, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by michimoby

Bankruptcy is a scary, scary weapon in this fight. But in some respects, it is the right recourse that calls the question: what once could only be enforced by a single appointed EFM [[such as union pension cuts) now has the federal, legal standing to back it up....

...which means that either the unions will negotiate, or riot. That sounds only slightly scary. :\

And not just that, even a Bankruptcy Judge doesn't have the sweeping powers that an EM had.

I also don't buy all of the fear mongering over a bankruptcy proceeding either, based on past cases in places such as Jefferson County, AL and Orange County, CA.

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I also don't buy all of the fear mongering over a bankruptcy proceeding either, based on past cases in places such as Jefferson County, AL and Orange County, CA.

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

What of the major deficient service in the city today: the lack of access to quality education? The approach to DPS' restructuring completely changes from here on out.

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 10:29 AM

Pre-Prop 1 failure: Lack of access to quality education
Post-Prop 1 faulure: Lack of access to quality education

I understand that your point is medium/long term, though.

**313WX** · November-07-12, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

Exactly, and that's because the BK Judge can declare a moratorium on all debt payments [[half of Detroit's budget goes to debt obligations) until the banks realize they're only getting 5% to 20% of what they're owed.

There would still be budget cuts, no doubt. Of course, they wouldn't be NEARLY as severe either. The grant-funded DDHWP been dissolved either [[which the dissolving of that department went against the city charter).

Also, the unions would still be able to negotiate a new contract.

As far as the bond ratings for the state of Michigan or the surrounding communities, the interest rates on your debt payments may go up a little bit. Big deal. Detroit has been allowed to falter for 40 years, partly because it was deprived of capital from your fleeing to the suburbs and your encouragement of urban sprawl. [[something the vast majority of city centers in other states haven't had to contend with nearly to the extent Detroit has).

**313WX** · November-07-12, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Pre-Prop 1 failure: Lack of access to quality education
Post-Prop 1 faulure: Lack of access to quality education

I understand that your point is medium/long term, though.

Thing is, the problem with the lack of access to quality education won't be solved by an EM...

1. That problem is largely social and unique to Detroit. Even if you had the vest teachers in the world and state of the art school buildings and equipment, you also need parents and kids who give a damn about their education before there's a marked improvement in its quality.

2. Detroit will continue to bleed taxpayers who would normally fund the schools, short term and long term. No matter how much you restructure the debt or kick the can down the road with more debt, at the end of the day you will won't have any type of income to pay it off.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-07-12, 10:51 AM

Don't worry, in a couple of years Michigan will be a "right to work" state anyways. The Repubs are hell bent on that happening.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-07-12, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by michimoby

What of the major deficient service in the city today: the lack of access to quality education? The approach to DPS' restructuring completely changes from here on out.

The burden certainly moves back to the school board and the Unions.

Before all the EFM/EM wars, the movement to reform was painfully slow. We'll see if they can wait out this financial storm and stop the move to school choice, then nothing will happen.

Does anyone see the school board or Unions bringing reform to help our students? If so, why?

**adamjab19** · November-07-12, 12:05 PM

Well Detroiter's will have to speak up more and expect more out of their defunct governments instead of voting in the old corrupt, non-functioning elected officials. It seems what people want since they voted this down....

**guito13** · November-07-12, 12:25 PM

Essentially Detroiters think they are doing just fine....

http://www.photozo.com/album/data/4507/spiral.jpg

**noggin** · November-07-12, 12:27 PM

To quote the NY Times, "Let Detroit go bankrupt!"

**DetBill** · November-07-12, 12:41 PM

I was dissapointed but not surprised that Prop 1 went down,, Many of the citizens of Detroit saw the EM measure as an example of everyone meddling in their own affairs. The only problem they refuse to acknowledge is they have consistently shown that they are incapable of handling the city and its many issues. Many seem to live in some dreamland that they can handle everything just fine [[ unbelievable) and anyone from outside the city will just destroy it [[ they are doing a good job of it themselves. ) They also seem to not realize that the EM situation was probably the best of two evils as they would at least have some degree of influence in the mind and management of the city. When/if bankruptcy comes they will have none and the financial managers will literally take a carving knife to anything they feel they need to,, and many innocent people will endure more hardships. Once again, many Detroiters have shown they do not have the intelligence to consider this situation in its wholeness. Bankruptcy is probably the best long term solution for Detroit as it will eliminate the city councils power totally and the influence of many people who have no ability to keep Detroit going. Interesting to see how these groups will react. I am sure that the many business interests who are investing presently are not too happy with the prop 1 result. Detroit is lucky to have these few individuals who are still trying to turn the city around.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-07-12, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by DetBill

I was dissapointed but not surprised that Prop 1 went down,, Many of the citizens of Detroit saw the EM measure as an example of everyone meddling in their own affairs. The only problem they refuse to acknowledge is they have consistently shown that they are incapable of handling the city and its many issues. Many seem to live in some dreamland that they can handle everything just fine [[ unbelievable) and anyone from outside the city will just destroy it [[ they are doing a good job of it themselves. ) They also seem to not realize that the EM situation was probably the best of two evils as they would at least have some degree of influence in the mind and management of the city. When/if bankruptcy comes they will have none and the financial managers will literally take a carving knife to anything they fell they need to,, and many innocent people will endure more hardships. Once again, many Detroiters have shown they do not have the intelligence to consider this situation in its wholeness. Bankruptcy is probably the best long term solution for Detroit as it will eliminate the city councils power totally and the influence of many people who have no ability to keep Detroit going. Interesting to see how these groups will react. I am sure that the many business interests who are investing presently are not too happy with the prop 1 result. Detroit is lucky to have these few individuals who are still trying to turn the city around.

Good thoughts.

I can only think that a those opposed to EM laws truly are in denial of the causes for the problems with the City, DPS, Allen Park, and so on. If you believe that the problem is that Wall Street has stolen the money from the middle class, then you can believe that things will get better when this problem is fixed. Steps then such as Obama's re-election are seen as validation that the problem was really the right-wing, pro-business world. This denial fascinates me. It also amuses me that the radicals are defending the status quo here. And the conservatives are trying to take radical steps to save Detroit. The world is sometimes funny.

**Danny** · November-07-12, 12:49 PM

I'm glad the prop. 1 failed. Good riddance that EM dictatorship law. This will teach Gov. Snyder, the Nerd not to mess withDetroit and other city and school governments. Snyder will deal his business inLansing, Detroit and other city gov'ts and school board will do theirs.

**guito13** · November-07-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm glad the prop. 1 failed. Good riddance that EM dictatorship law. This will teach Gov. Snyder, the Nerd not to mess withDetroit and other city and school governments. Snyder will deal his business inLansing, Detroit and other city gov'ts and school board will do theirs.

Danny, how has that been working out for the city/dps over the last few decades?

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm glad the prop. 1 failed. Good riddance that EM dictatorship law. This will teach Gov. Snyder, the Nerd not to mess withDetroit and other city and school governments. Snyder will deal his business inLansing, Detroit and other city gov'ts and school board will do theirs.

With all due respect, Danny, as a citizen and taxpayer I WANT someone from the outside "messing" with Detroit. Right now, my money is being pissed away because there's nobody competent enough controlling the purse strings!

If 'messing' means my city's financial house is in order, then bring it on, please.

**rex** · November-07-12, 01:08 PM

CRC suggests Detroit's debt is 20 billion dollars
according to Gary Brown in June Detroit spent 360,000 more
per day than it brought in.
If 700K Detroiters each chipped in 28,500 it would just about
cover the city' debt.

**313WX** · November-07-12, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Good thoughts.

I can only think that a those opposed to EM laws truly are in denial of the causes for the problems with the City, DPS, Allen Park, and so on. If you believe that the problem is that Wall Street has stolen the money from the middle class, then you can believe that things will get better when this problem is fixed. Steps then such as Obama's re-election are seen as validation that the problem was really the right-wing, pro-business world. This denial fascinates me. It also amuses me that the radicals are defending the status quo here. And the conservatives are trying to take radical steps to save Detroit. The world is sometimes funny.

People can oppose measures for a number of reasons.

Some may oppose something simply because they disagree with the measure and believe there's a better way to handle the problem [[besides the radical steps as you say being taken now), not necessarily because they don't understand the depth of the problem.

Jefferson County in Alabama also tried to "restructure its debt" and it still ended up in bankruptcy court, and their debt load was much lower than Detroit's. They weren't bleeding the number of taxpayers Detroit is either.