NHL Winter Classic cancelled

[yaktown]

No big surprise but the NHL has announced the cancellation of the Winter Classic set to be played at Michigan Stadium on Jan 1. All the other festivities at Comerica Park and downtown are cancelled as well. Sad for our area but sadder still that millionaires and billionaries can't get their shit together.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=644824

[401don]

The economic impact of these games [[10 total) would have been much greater than the World Series for the Detroit area. The good news is it will take place next year instead, assuming these idiots have resolved things by then. Notice how much quicker autoworkers and other "normal" folks bargain and settle things compared to rich people who are happy to let things drag.

[p69rrh51]

The economic impact of these games [[10 total) would have been much greater than the World Series for the Detroit area. The good news is it will take place next year instead, assuming these idiots have resolved things by then. Notice how much quicker autoworkers and other "normal" folks bargain and settle things compared to rich people who are happy to let things drag.

That's interesting I remember knock down confrontations between the UAW and the auto companies that lasted far longer than this! Right now workers are getting the S**tty end of the stick, but back in the day the UAW would have rather put the auto companies under than negotiate resaonably! Its all relative!! I took a class at WSU taught by the then head of the federal mediation service here in Detroit. His stories were hilarious! While management was not that greatest the BS the workers pulled when they had the power was beyond ludacris. Like it or not right now its payback for all crap your ancestors dished out and you wonder why jobs went overseas!

And by the way F**K Bettman and Fehr! The NHL is dead to me until they both go away and die!!!

[Bad Brains]

The NHL has been going downhill for years, this is the nail in the coffin for me. When they do resume play, I'm not wasting any of my time and money on this garbage anymore. The NHL has officially replaced the NFL as my most hated pro league.

[mikefmich]

And by the way F**K Bettman and Fehr! The NHL is dead to me until they both go away and die!!!

Only part of your post that is spot on is eff Bettman.

Was your instructors stories first hand? My uncle's were...hired in at Dodge Main in 1923, rose to shift manager at Jefferson Assembly. Though management for many years, he never forgot his roots or the things he saw first hand. Quote on quote.....unions were the best thing that ever happened for the workers, the emerging middle class, and Detroit itself.

[Bad Brains]

Why is everyone hating on Bettman and not the majority of the OWNERS who support the guy?

[Bham1982]

Ann Arbor will probably get the event next year, no? So there's probably no net economic loss, it's just delayed a year.

I would think that the delays to starting the season are far more impactful than a single game 40 miles from Detroit. Downtown businesses depend on JLA business; they aren't going to get a boost from an event at Michigan Stadium.

[mikeg19]

Why is everyone hating on Bettman and not the majority of the OWNERS who support the guy?

If you listen to a lot of hockey insiders, there is a core group of 8-12 owners who are adamant about the hard line stance the NHL is putting up. It seems that the majority of owners are actually questioning why more negotiating isn't taking place and a resolution that seemed fairly simple to hammer out is now dragging into month two. Hopefully we get a season rolling by Thanksgiving, which was initially the thought of most people closely associated with negotiations.

[p69rrh51]

Only part of your post that is spot on is eff Bettman.

Was your instructors stories first hand? My uncle's were...hired in at Dodge Main in 1923, rose to shift manager at Jefferson Assembly. Though management for many years, he never forgot his roots or the things he saw first hand. Quote on quote.....unions were the best thing that ever happened for the workers, the emerging middle class, and Detroit itself.

Actually everything is spot on! My mother was a member of the National Extortion Association and hated it! She crossed every picket line when teachers would strike. Her comment was and which holds true today is that they could care less about the children it was all about their pensions and benefits!
I ran across a former auto worker awhile back and he also hated the UAW! It was all about how to not work and there are 4 to 5 generations of workers who have learned NOT to work.
I am very proud that the one union shop that I have worked for I was retained even though I refused to join the union. The workers will so disgruntled by the union that I almost was able to have the union decertified. Its amazing how fast the bad actors were removed by the national once that happened!
If unions were so great for Detroit how come are there so few jobs and why are we in such a sorry condition now?
Unions are against all things efficient and as consumers we all pay the price for that!
The only things the unions were good for was lining the pockets of the guys who ran them.

[Wesley Mouch]

That's interesting I remember knock down confrontations between the UAW and the auto companies that lasted far longer than this! Right now workers are getting the S**tty end of the stick, but back in the day the UAW would have rather put the auto companies under than negotiate resaonably! Its all relative!! I took a class at WSU taught by the then head of the federal mediation service here in Detroit. His stories were hilarious! While management was not that greatest the BS the workers pulled when they had the power was beyond ludacris. Like it or not right now its payback for all crap your ancestors dished out and you wonder why jobs went overseas!

And by the way F**K Bettman and Fehr! The NHL is dead to me until they both go away and die!!!

Glad you pointed out the follies of both management and labor.

The players deserve a lot of money. And they're getting a lot of money. So the owners are getting a larger share. Who cares? The players still get 'a boatload of money'.

This is no Eagle Pass. This is just pure greed. The owners are greedy. That's their job. They players are greedy. And for no good reason except greed.

The players should tell their union that they're so happy they're making 'boatloads of money' right now -- and they'll take a 25% pay cut so long as ticket prices for the comman man are reduced 25%. The players don't care about the real workers, do they?

[Hamtragedy]

As long as the NHL led by Gary Bettman continues to throw money at teams in cities that don't give a rat's ass about hockey, and continues to prop up those organizations [[or in the case of Phoenix, own) that are bleeding cash year after year, that have no hope of gaining a loyal following, [[some for nearly 20 years now), then the NHL will continue to be the laughingstock of professional sports.

Fire Bettman immediately, then get rid of Columbus, both Florida teams, Nashville, Carolina, and Phoenix.

No one in Columbus, OH cares about hockey, and no one ever has. Same with Carolina and Tampa, sorry, but Karmanos and Stanley Cups don't help. Phoenix is owned by the league. Nashville can't retain their high-profile free-agents, because as nice a coach Barry Trots is, no one wants to play in Nashville, and no one there cares. The team in Miami is a joke.

Put hockey back in Quebec City where it belongs. Move a team to Hamilton. Fold the Islanders while you're at it, unless the move to Brooklyn actually helps. And if Brodeur retires and no one in Newark comes to games anymore, Lou Lamirillo can take the debt ridden Devils to Canada too.

[Bad Brains]

Fire Bettman immediately, then get rid of Columbus, both Florida teams, Nashville, Carolina, and Phoenix.

No one in Columbus, OH cares about hockey, and no one ever has. Same with Carolina and Tampa, sorry, but Karmanos and Stanley Cups don't help. Phoenix is owned by the league. Nashville can't retain their high-profile free-agents, because as nice a coach Barry Trots is, no one wants to play in Nashville, and no one there cares. The team in Miami is a joke.

Put hockey back in Quebec City where it belongs. Move a team to Hamilton. Fold the Islanders while you're at it, unless the move to Brooklyn actually helps. And if Brodeur retires and no one in Newark comes to games anymore, Lou Lamirillo can take the debt ridden Devils to Canada too.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

As a Red Wings fan, I don't even care there isn't a season. I can't get fired up when we are in the same division as Columbus and Nashville and have to play them a combined 16 or whatever times a year. It's boring garbage hockey. Detroit needs to be in the Eastern Conference.

Also, the NHL seems to be the only league where the rules COMPLETELY change when playoffs start. In every other sport, aside from an occasional fluke, the best teams usually wins the championship. How the NHL constantly has garbage 7 and 8 seed teams playing in the finals and winning Stanley Cups is a mystery to me.

[p69rrh51]

As long as the NHL led by Gary Bettman continues to throw money at teams in cities that don't give a rat's ass about hockey, and continues to prop up those organizations [[or in the case of Phoenix, own) that are bleeding cash year after year, that have no hope of gaining a loyal following, [[some for nearly 20 years now), then the NHL will continue to be the laughingstock of professional sports.

Fire Bettman immediately, then get rid of Columbus, both Florida teams, Nashville, Carolina, and Phoenix.

No one in Columbus, OH cares about hockey, and no one ever has. Same with Carolina and Tampa, sorry, but Karmanos and Stanley Cups don't help. Phoenix is owned by the league. Nashville can't retain their high-profile free-agents, because as nice a coach Barry Trots is, no one wants to play in Nashville, and no one there cares. The team in Miami is a joke.

Put hockey back in Quebec City where it belongs. Move a team to Hamilton. Fold the Islanders while you're at it, unless the move to Brooklyn actually helps. And if Brodeur retires and no one in Newark comes to games anymore, Lou Lamirillo can take the debt ridden Devils to Canada too.

Have you ever been to Columbus for a game? I have!! They are fanatics about the Blue Jackets. Don't throw away teams you have NO clue about!!!

[Cincinnati_Kid]

And everyone lambasted the NBA last year for their lockout. The NHL is no different. At least they were able to play a shortened season, doesn't look that way for the NHL.

[Hamtragedy]

I actually don't mind the parity. I watched every single Kings game in the playoffs and they were unstoppable [[they destroyed the Canucks and didn't slow down). Then again, I'm not sure how the Devils made it to the Finals, then were embarrassed like the Tigers.

What I really liked about the cap is how teams like Edmonton and Calgary don't necessarily lose their key players after 4 years because they can no longer afford them, unlike the late 90's where it seemed the Oiler scouts were top notch but Pocklington was too cheap to pay the talent.

What I don't like is these 10 year contracts teams are locking into now because of the cap. Is Zetterberg really going to perform the next 5 yrs like he did the first two of his contract? I sure hope so. Are Parise and Suter really going to do that much in Minnesota? They damn well better, but if the talent's not surrounding them, they'll wind up like Toronto, stuck with huge contracts at the expense of goaltending.

What's frustrating to me is the great lengths the NHL leadership has gone to to marginalize the things that made this sport great. It never was intended to have the mass appeal the NFL or NBA had. The coolest game on ice [[as it became in the 90's) was great because it kind of happened without massive prodding or stupid advertising. Those markets that embraced it really embraced it. By breaking the league into generic conferences and plain-jane named divisions, and following the Bud Selig horrible alignment scheme where we play the same 5 teams 40 times and the other 25 teams once or twice was just plain idiotic and disregarded what actually made the game special.

By force-feeding hockey into markets where it has no prior appeal or even recognition, what was Gary Bettman thinking he was going to do? Were local municipalities all of a sudden going to build ice rinks and kids would line up out the door to pay $15 and hour for ice time twice a week and magically be able to afford $400 in equipment, which was not available anywhere within 400 miles except for the new arena pro-shop which had a double markup on everything?

It was so effin stupid and arrogant for the league to do this. Blame the brass, but also blame the ignorance of clueless millionaires who thought putting hockey in places like Columbus would actually work. Now instead of letting those greedy bastards go broke, my ticket fees go to bail these a-holes out. Sure, alot of Tier I minor league players disguised as professionals will have to find real jobs, but that's the BS the NHL created.

Fire Bettman now.

[p69rrh51]

I actually don't mind the parity. I watched every single Kings game in the playoffs and they were unstoppable [[they destroyed the Canucks and didn't slow down). Then again, I'm not sure how the Devils made it to the Finals, then were embarrassed like the Tigers.

What I really liked about the cap is how teams like Edmonton and Calgary don't necessarily lose their key players after 4 years because they can no longer afford them, unlike the late 90's where it seemed the Oiler scouts were top notch but Pocklington was too cheap to pay the talent.

What I don't like is these 10 year contracts teams are locking into now because of the cap. Is Zetterberg really going to perform the next 5 yrs like he did the first two of his contract? I sure hope so. Are Parise and Suter really going to do that much in Minnesota? They damn well better, but if the talent's not surrounding them, they'll wind up like Toronto, stuck with huge contracts at the expense of goaltending.

What's frustrating to me is the great lengths the NHL leadership has gone to to marginalize the things that made this sport great. It never was intended to have the mass appeal the NFL or NBA had. The coolest game on ice [[as it became in the 90's) was great because it kind of happened without massive prodding or stupid advertising. Those markets that embraced it really embraced it. By breaking the league into generic conferences and plain-jane named divisions, and following the Bud Selig horrible alignment scheme where we play the same 5 teams 40 times and the other 25 teams once or twice was just plain idiotic and disregarded what actually made the game special.

By force-feeding hockey into markets where it has no prior appeal or even recognition, what was Gary Bettman thinking he was going to do? Were local municipalities all of a sudden going to build ice rinks and kids would line up out the door to pay $15 and hour for ice time twice a week and magically be able to afford $400 in equipment, which was not available anywhere within 400 miles except for the new arena pro-shop which had a double markup on everything?

It was so effin stupid and arrogant for the league to do this. Blame the brass, but also blame the ignorance of clueless millionaires who thought putting hockey in places like Columbus would actually work. Now instead of letting those greedy bastards go broke, my ticket fees go to bail these a-holes out. Sure, alot of Tier I minor league players disguised as professionals will have to find real jobs, but that's the BS the NHL created.

Fire Bettman now.

You have to be kidding the players were offered 50% of the revenue sharing and turned it down?? There are 2 sides to the story the players are not innocent in this deal either!! Fire Fehr along with Bettman and deal with 3rd world status. Maybe then we will get the league we can be proud of!

[Wesley Mouch]

You have to be kidding the players were offered 50% of the revenue sharing and turned it down?? There are 2 sides to the story the players are not innocent in this deal either!! Fire Fehr along with Bettman and deal with 3rd world status. Maybe then we will get the league we can be proud of!

I agree that the owners and Bettman are greedy bastards. But at what point are players greedy? If 50% isn't enough, what is? 60%? 90%?

We know owners are greedy. I accept that. I'm disappointed in the players. Is an **AVERAGE salary of $2.4 million** not enough? Did you read that figure. Sure, its probably before taking the current cuts. So if you go from 57% to 50% its a cut of about 11% -- so is an AVERAGE salary of over $2,000,000 not enough?

[[Source: Yahoo Sports article)

[Bad Brains]

I actually don't mind the parity. I watched every single Kings game in the playoffs and they were unstoppable [[they destroyed the Canucks and didn't slow down). Then again, I'm not sure how the Devils made it to the Finals, then were embarrassed like the Tigers.

A little parity can be cute once in a while, but it can also be frustrating. It all kind of began with the Devils in 95'. They were by all standards a pretty bad team that used the left-wing lock to take advantage of the random change in rules [[and had a hot goalie who became one of the best ever). Wings were FAR superior.

I tried watching some Kings games, and to me personally it was boring. Last season's finals might have been more a snooze-fest than that Anaheim-New Jersey finals in 2003, and I'm a huge hockey fan. The casual fan was probably even less interested.

When you change the rules of the game as soon as playoffs start and constantly have teams that aren't the best meeting in the finals, it's not good for the game.

[p69rrh51]

I agree that the owners and Bettman are greedy bastards. But at what point are players greedy? If 50% isn't enough, what is? 60%? 90%?

We know owners are greedy. I accept that. I'm disappointed in the players. Is an **AVERAGE salary of $2.4 million** not enough? Did you read that figure. Sure, its probably before taking the current cuts. So if you go from 57% to 50% its a cut of about 11% -- so is an AVERAGE salary of over $2,000,000 not enough?

[[Source: Yahoo Sports article)

Why is it so bad that owners are greedy? To be the owner of any enterprise is to be greedy in that you want more! Its your team, company etc.. why shouldn't you reap the lion share of the profits. Last time I checked this is still a capitalist economy for the most part. There is more to just plunking down some cash and buying the team. Just getting the doors open for a game is a tremendous undertaking.
When its all said and done the players are a commodity. They sell their skills in exchange for money. When did they achieve ownership status? They want be owners without having to pay the salaries of the staff, the insurance, the maintainence on the arena, selling tickets and the other mundane operations that go along with owning/running a team. They are already paid for the performance no matter if its good or bad, please tell me what entitles them to anything beyond their salaries? If most of us asked for a cut of the profits from our employer we would be laughed at or shown the door.

[yaktown]

Ann Arbor will probably get the event next year, no? So there's probably no net economic loss, it's just delayed a year.

I would think that the delays to starting the season are far more impactful than a single game 40 miles from Detroit. Downtown businesses depend on JLA business; they aren't going to get a boost from an event at Michigan Stadium.

It's actually more than just the one game at the Big House. There were two weeks of activities planned at Comerica Park, tens of thousands of people would have been downtown for the festivities.

[mikefmich]

No one in Columbus, OH cares about hockey, and no one ever has. .

You couldn't be more wrong about that in any sense of the word. I've been stuck here for 5.5 yrs. and was driving down to games since 2002. There is a good core fan base here, & Nationwide has never been as empty as Olympia & the Joe was during the Dead Wings days. The fans here are almost fatalistic in their optimism.

[Wesley Mouch]

Why is it so bad that owners are greedy? To be the owner of any enterprise is to be greedy in that you want more! Its your team, company etc.. why shouldn't you reap the lion share of the profits. Last time I checked this is still a capitalist economy for the most part. There is more to just plunking down some cash and buying the team. Just getting the doors open for a game is a tremendous undertaking.
When its all said and done the players are a commodity. They sell their skills in exchange for money. When did they achieve ownership status? They want be owners without having to pay the salaries of the staff, the insurance, the maintainence on the arena, selling tickets and the other mundane operations that go along with owning/running a team. They are already paid for the performance no matter if its good or bad, please tell me what entitles them to anything beyond their salaries? If most of us asked for a cut of the profits from our employer we would be laughed at or shown the door.

Greedy Bastard wasn't mean as an insult. I agree with you. But they are greedy. And I only call them bastards because they collectively [[all league) have allowed sports to become profit obsessed. They are getting their just rewards. They created the monster [[greedy players). I don't have sympathy.

But my main point was to change the focus to the greedy of the players. They have no excuse. Be rewarded well. Be rewarded very well. That's fair. Demanding a share of profits -- not fair. You are right.

[p69rrh51]

Greedy Bastard wasn't mean as an insult. I agree with you. But they are greedy. And I only call them bastards because they collectively [[all league) have allowed sports to become profit obsessed. They are getting their just rewards. They created the monster [[greedy players). I don't have sympathy.

But my main point was to change the focus to the greedy of the players. They have no excuse. Be rewarded well. Be rewarded very well. That's fair. Demanding a share of profits -- not fair. You are right.

The players should be compensated well for a good performance! Their salary should reflect that and nothing else. What I do like is each contract is individually negotiated.
Sometimes as fans we forget/do not know about what goes on to present the game to us, and for the most we should never have to worry about it. Modern Marvels on the history channel has one episode partially dedicated to the provisioning of a Stadium. Even though its a football stadium one gets the idea of what it takes to present us with a good experience.
In the end we the fans are biggest losers, along with the business' that derive some of their income from the games. A fact that the players and owners seem to forget!!

[SMRJim]

...I took a class at WSU taught by the then head of the federal mediation service here in Detroit....

Who was the instructor? My dad was a federal mediator in Detroit from 1959 to 1981, he worked for Dave Tanzman and then Larry Berry, so it could have been one of them if this was way back when. My dad taught some labor relations courses at DCB for a couple of years in the early 80s, never at WSU though. I'm sure he had some interesting stories for his students, he could tell a good story with the best of them. When we were kids we would take the bus downtown before Christmas to go to Cobo Hall and Hudsons, but the first stop was always his office in the federal building.

[p69rrh51]

Who was the instructor? My dad was a federal mediator in Detroit from 1959 to 1981, he worked for Dave Tanzman and then Larry Berry, so it could have been one of them if this was way back when. My dad taught some labor relations courses at DCB for a couple of years in the early 80s, never at WSU though. I'm sure he had some interesting stories for his students, he could tell a good story with the best of them. When we were kids we would take the bus downtown before Christmas to go to Cobo Hall and Hudsons, but the first stop was always his office in the federal building.

Its been almost 30 years since I took the class and I cannot remember who the instructor was. Although he taught one of the best courses I took at WSU.