Detroit Issues a Challenge to Save the City

**7miledog** · November-01-12, 10:52 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored...ref=goldman-ob

Interesting article. Even if it is sponsored content by Goldman Sachs, which is interesting to me. I've not heard of GS sponsoring content such as this. Is that a bigger story than the article itself?

At any rate, enjoy...

**Wesley Mouch** · November-01-12, 11:02 PM

GS only appears to be a 'sponsor' of the Atlantic article, from a quick glance.

**Honky Tonk** · November-02-12, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored...ref=goldman-ob

Interesting article. Even if it is sponsored content by Goldman Sachs, which is interesting to me. I've not heard of GS sponsoring content such as this. Is that a bigger story than the article itself?

At any rate, enjoy...

I never get what these things are trying to accomplish. You have a City with a corrupt, backward thinking government, marginal police & fire protection, high crime rate, a lighting & power system grid on it's last legs, and a high percentage of high school drop-outs. What do these people realistically hope to change by living here for a year & shopping for veggies @ Eastern Mark-Up?

**erikd** · November-03-12, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I never get what these things are trying to accomplish. You have a City with a corrupt, backward thinking government, marginal police & fire protection, high crime rate, a lighting & power system grid on it's last legs, and a high percentage of high school drop-outs. What do these people realistically hope to change by living here for a year & shopping for veggies @ Eastern Mark-Up?

Exactly.

There seems to be no shortage of people dreaming up grand plans for "saving Detroit." Unfortunately, nobody seems to realize that what we really need to save Detroit is a functional government that provides basic city services. We don't need grandiose visions for creating a futuristic utopia based on nothing but somebody's daydream. We need streetlights that work, 911 responders that show up in less than 2 hours, and public transit that runs efficiently and on time every day.

Fix the basics and most of the other stuff will fall into place.

**royce** · November-03-12, 12:15 PM

Good point, Erikd. Many of the non-profits spend money on things like this when they could donate the money to the city to help out, or use the money to hire unemployed Detroiters to do some of the jobs that the city has no money to do. They could employ citizens to do clean-up jobs or act as security while children walk to school, or any number of jobs. These college-educated folks can find jobs of their own.

**firstandten** · November-03-12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by erikd

There seems to be no shortage of people dreaming up grand plans for "saving Detroit." Unfortunately, nobody seems to realize that what we really need to save Detroit is a functional government that provides basic city services. We don't need grandiose visions for creating a futuristic utopia based on nothing but somebody's daydream. We need streetlights that work, 911 responders that show up in less than 2 hours, and public transit that runs efficiently and on time every day.

Fix the basics and most of the other stuff will fall into place.

Great post !!

When are people going to realize that we don't need a grand strategy to fix Detroit, we don't need folks nibbling around the edges trying to hit a home run or kicking the can down the road. Just do the fundamentals, just do the tried and true things that makes a city livable and everything else will take care of itself.

**maverick1** · November-03-12, 01:33 PM

Actually. I like big grandiose ideas. You start off implementing big grandiose ideas by working in parallel with taking care of the fundamentals. I feel we have to think big here. The city's image and condition is so bad that being just functioning is not good enough.

**Crumbled_pavement** · November-03-12, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

Actually. I like big grandiose ideas. You start off implementing big grandiose ideas by working in parallel with taking care of the fundamentals. I feel we have to think big here. The city's image and condition is so bad that being just functioning is not good enough.

I agree. With the avalanche of problems this city faces it needs to be able to chew bubblegum and walk at the same time while patting its head with one hand and rubbing its stomach with the other. If we can't do 5 - 10 things at one time we might as well forget about it. That's because we have at least 5 - 10 things that need to be done NOW before we can even get to the other 50 or 60 things that can be done down the line.

**Honky Tonk** · November-03-12, 06:29 PM

"Actually. I like big grandiose ideas. You start off implementing big grandiose ideas by working in parallel with taking care of the fundamentals."

Let me know when the paralleling starts, will you? So far grandiose outweighs fundamentals 10-1. High-end groceries, upscale coffee shops, 150 mil plans for a 3 mile choo-choo, meanwhile kids getting off of school buses get robbed and shot, others die waiting for EMS to arrive, and no streetlights.

**canuck** · November-03-12, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by erikd

Exactly.

There seems to be no shortage of people dreaming up grand plans for "saving Detroit." Unfortunately, nobody seems to realize that what we really need to save Detroit is a functional government that provides basic city services. We don't need grandiose visions for creating a futuristic utopia based on nothing but somebody's daydream. We need streetlights that work, 911 responders that show up in less than 2 hours, and public transit that runs efficiently and on time every day.

Fix the basics and most of the other stuff will fall into place.

I think a city the size of Detroit needs to be vigilant about preserving its assets in time, focus on future industrial and other developments. But it also has to dream big along with the ordinary task of fighting crime and blight. Big cities need to provide more than a 7/11 vending machine, and a cop on the beat.

You can't just fix the basic stuff anymore and hope for something to come out of it. You need to also provide a sense of purpose and excitement. That is part of the american spirit, otherwise you cannot raise expectations and investment.
One of the traits that distinguished the US from other nations for two hundred years was the willingness, and the ability to think big to the point of gross caricature sometimes. It doesnt matter if a new shopping mall hits downtown Detroit. If it closes in a year it wnt be the end of the world. But it certainly hurts the psyche of those who would want the city to enjoy the glory of yesteryear to see that happen. So this means that the people are intimidated by the prospect of new developments as much as the lack of. The fear of failure has crept into the mind of Detroit where once pondered a "sky is the limit" mentality. A fine balance of self-preservation and progressive thought would make a world of difference, so dont knock on those who come with big ideas. Just get involved in the process.

**softailrider** · November-03-12, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Great post !!

When are people going to realize that we don't need a grand strategy to fix Detroit, we don't need folks nibbling around the edges trying to hit a home run or kicking the can down the road. Just do the fundamentals, just do the tried and true things that makes a city livable and everything else will take care of itself.

That takes money - where is that going to come from? The middle class tax base left a couple of decades ago.

**southofbloor** · November-03-12, 11:19 PM

'Save the city' sticks in my craw. Sounds very Texan baptist comes to the rust belt to establish an 'art epicentre in slum community gospel coffee shop'. But that said I like the idea of smart people moving to Detroit who can contribute positive energy and good ideas to the good stuff that's already here, especially people who pay taxes and can help establish/ maintain a middle class tax base. Detroit has been a national leader in innovation because of its smart immigrants. It can be that again - these people might be a small part of that. Welcome them and use what they have to offer.

**firstandten** · November-03-12, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

That takes money - where is that going to come from? The middle class tax base left a couple of decades ago.

I don't have anything against grandiose ideas, you use those ideas to build upon the things you are already doing successfully. To use a basketball example its like the kids who grabs a ball and starts shooting three pointers and they haven't learn to shoot a lay-up.

**Honky Tonk** · November-04-12, 04:50 AM

"I don't have anything against grandiose ideas, you use those ideas to build upon the things you are already doing successfully."

Exactly. It's like having a birthday cake that's all icing. I'm happy that there are signs that young people have discovered the "Big City" and are moving in, but Detroit needs sustainability. I'm going to repeat myself here, until you have in place a government that isn't concerned with self-serving interests, you have icing. And the likelyhood of regime change is small because you're out voted. Personally, I'm getting tired of pouring money into the sinking ship, it's time to man the lifeboats. And I don't need a $200 Pataginia jacket and a $15 watermelon to do that.

**Crumbled_pavement** · November-04-12, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"I don't have anything against grandiose ideas, you use those ideas to build upon the things you are already doing successfully."

Exactly. It's like having a birthday cake that's all icing. I'm happy that there are signs that young people have discovered the "Big City" and are moving in, but Detroit needs sustainability. I'm going to repeat myself here, until you have in place a government that isn't concerned with self-serving interests, you have icing. And the likelyhood of regime change is small because you're out voted. Personally, I'm getting tired of pouring money into the sinking ship, it's time to man the lifeboats. And I don't need a $200 Pataginia jacket and a $15 watermelon to do that.

So let's start outnumbering the slugs. If the productive people run off, all we will have left are the unproductive people. We expect them to magically become productive because all the productive people have left. So far that hasn't happened, and newsflash, it never will. Again I say this, Detroit will never rise from the ashes at this point unless we learn how to do 5 - 10 things at the same time. This isn't New York or Chicago where we have a single issue to fix, we have an ungodly slew of issues that all need to be fixed NOW.

**rex** · November-04-12, 09:14 AM

someone always seems to think they know what Detroit needs. Heres my .2
Large amounts of low/no skill jobs for its mostly unskilled workforce. Its nice that people with some skills and training are moving downtown and all that but there are still hundreds of thousands of Detroit residents who are harder to place in a job. People who draw resources and contribute next to nothing. That and gated communities. Make Brush Park exclusive. Same with Indian Village and Boston Edison. Big ass fences with extra streets added for building and growth

**southofbloor** · November-04-12, 10:41 AM

There are not going to be high paying unskilled jobs in Detroit ever again. Those people have to become skilled at something. And someone has to figure out how to get them to that point. People with skills and training who come to know and love Detroit will build businesses here and impact the way city government operates. Other industrial cities outside of the US have gone through this transition already - Manchester, Glasgow etc with some good success. And I think city government is going to change pretty substantially with 2013 election by districts. That's a huge shift - will take a while to feel the results but could be a great thing for supporting good governance.

**corktownyuppie** · November-04-12, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by southofbloor

There are not going to be high paying unskilled jobs in Detroit ever again. Those people have to become skilled at something. And someone has to figure out how to get them to that point.

You missed one step. Before those people become skilled at something they [[and their leaders) need to realize those jobs aren't coming back. Once you the realize that, it will be easier for them to accept the help from outsiders whom they distrust to help get them to skilled employment.

I understand the totally valid and justifiable vitriol against the racist politics of the suburbs. But just as not all of us represent the attributes they hate, not all of them are racist whiteys trying to oppress, either.

What Detroiters have still failed to embrace is that they need outsiders more than they need us.

That understanding will become much more concrete once we can get everyone to surrender this fallacy that high paying unskilled jobs will magically return.

**Crumbled_pavement** · November-04-12, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

What Detroiters have still failed to embrace is that they need outsiders more than they need us.

I agree with everything you said but this. If we keep the pissing contest up about who needs who more then we never make progress. How about this, both the city and suburbs need each other. Let's stop keeping score and start working together.

**Honky Tonk** · November-04-12, 12:01 PM

What the COD REALLY needs is competent leadership capable of making the right decisions. Until you have that in place, all this is just pie in the sky. The most honest thing Obama said was during a Chrysler visit that the auto industry, as we knew it, WASN'T coming back. The City fathers AND the populace, need to get a grip and start adjusting.

**313WX** · November-04-12, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I agree with everything you said but this. If we keep the pissing contest up about who needs who more then we never make progress. How about this, both the city and suburbs need each other. Let's stop keeping score and start working together.

Agreed.

You have to show the people you're disenfranchising to create this "new Detroit" that they will somehow benefit from this in the long run instead of simply getting steamrolled over by those with special interests. That's one thing that hasn't been done yet.

It's not as esy as just "getting a grip" or "forgetting the past" or "dealing with it." While suburbanites are able to come down and watch a Tigers/Red Wings/Lions game then drive back out to their safe McMansions and while yuppies consider downtown their college/post-graduate playground, what exactly are the 600,000 or so Detroiters getting out of all of this? Damnation?

Otherwise, you're just encouraging them more and more to block any type of change, and if that fails, move to a city/state where their voice is heard [[and quite frankly the last thing Detroit and Michigan needs to lose is more people). The Detroiters outside of downtown/midtown are not lab rats that are simply to be used for experimentation. They're humans as well, many of which also pay taxes and deserve some type of hope for a better futurw

**maverick1** · November-04-12, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I agree with everything you said but this. If we keep the pissing contest up about who needs who more then we never make progress. How about this, both the city and suburbs need each other. Let's stop keeping score and start working together.

I agree. We need each other and I'm tired of the pissing contest. There is no one without the other. If the suburbs think they can thrive without a core they're nuts. If Detroit thinks it can thrive in a bubble..... well we see how that's working out.

**maverick1** · November-04-12, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Agreed.

You have to show the people you're disenfranchising to create this "new Detroit" that they will somehow benefit from this in the long run instead of simply getting steamrolled over by those with special interests. That's one thing that hasn't been done yet.

It's not as esy as just "getting a grip" or "forgetting the past" or "dealing with it." While suburbanites are able to come down and watch a Tigers/Red Wings/Lions game then drive back out to their safe McMansions and while yuppies consider downtown their college/post-graduate playground, what exactly are the 600,000 or so Detroiters getting out of all of this? Damnation?

Otherwise, you're just encouraging them more and more to block any type of change, and if that fails, move to a city/state where their voice is heard [[and quite frankly the last thing Detroit and Michigan needs to lose is more people). The Detroiters outside of downtown/midtown are not lab rats that are simply to be used for experimentation. They're humans as well, many of which also pay taxes and deserve some type of hope for a better future

And this basically sums up the issue with most Detroiters. If you make sure the current residents are part of the progress and assure that they won't be kicked to the side you've eliminated at least 50% of the issues the residents here have.

**p69rrh51** · November-04-12, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

I agree. We need each other and I'm tired of the pissing contest. There is no one without the other. If the suburbs think they can thrive without a core they're nuts. If Detroit thinks it can thrive in a bubble..... well we see how that's working out.

The suburbs have been thriving/flourishing for decades without any need for the city. I know many who have not set foot in the city for as long as 25-30 years and who have all their needs met. Look at Ye Old Butcher Shoppe, everyone went overboard about ONE specialty market opening up when we should be asking why there are not the 30-40 YOBS that should already be here. I have not purchased clothing, hardware, electronics, and other basic needs in the city in over 25 years, and until last week I had not purchased any non eastern market groceries in the city in over 30 years. What Detroit needs to learn is the burbs have ABSOLUTELY no need for the city!

**Bham1982** · November-04-12, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

What Detroit needs to learn is the burbs have ABSOLUTELY no need for the city!

I disagree, in terms of overall benefit [[I think the suburbs, overall, would probably be stronger with a stronger central city), but you're right that the suburbs don't "need" Detroit anymore.

Some suburbs could possibly be hurt by a Detroit rennaisance. I would speculate that some of the ridiculous prices I see for "urban" living in Birmingham are caused by lack of options in the region. Most folks with money would never consider Detroit, so the people wanting a "city" experience come to a few blocks in the suburbs, and tear everything down for million dollar city homes.

There are tiny city lots [[no house) as narrow as a lot in SW Detroit that go for 500k not too far from me. The surrounding area isn't really that urban or cosmopolitan, but I think the prices are so high because there are no truly high-end Detroit neighborhoods.

I guess some people could speculate that some suburban politicans/jurisdictions benefit from urban decay. Overall, though, it hurts the region.