Casinos are Good

**Strong** · October-29-12, 04:45 PM

I like that Detroit has casinos. Well I like them now since I won $30 the other day. And, I got to admit I was against the idea in the beginning.
See I'm not a big gambler, I don't like losing especially my hard earn nickles.

I was in Greektown the other day and it was crowded with people going to the Tigers game. It looked like they were enjoying themselves, some winning and some losing, some eating at the restaurants and some just sitting around the bar listening to the live band.

Now, its not just that I won $30 after playing only $75 cents, I came to this conclusion because the casinos give people something to do in the city, plus they offer some entertainment with the live bands, restaurant options, and hotel beds. Motorcity's Sound Stage theater is huge, I have attended several concerts there and the performers are right up close. MGM is just plain a beautiful building and they got plenty of convention space and Greektown being so convenient and in the heart of downtown.

True the casinos have a down side with how some people can't control their gambling and lose too much. And, that ain't good at all. Also, casinos are known to create legal activiites but I can't say that I've heard of any increase in crime, etc. I think that the Atlantic City casinos had some problems but not here. [[To the best of my knowledge)

I'm not trying to convince anybody to become a gambler but in The Great Detroit casinos are a winner.

**Hamtragedy** · October-29-12, 09:40 PM

Casinos are always the winners.

Ask the small businesses who lost business to the casino what they think. Ask the venues that used to host some of those concerts what they think. Ask the bar-owners who lost their smoking customers to the Casinos what they think. Ask the dude who spent all night there trying to win the mortgage, or his daughter's education, back, then flew outta the parking lot at 70 MPH at 7 in the morning, what he thought.

I walked thru the greektown a couple years ago, in the lower level of what used to be trappers alley. Beige and windowless, it is the single most depressing place in the state of Michigan. Screw the casinos. This thread sucks.

**Islandman** · October-29-12, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Casinos are always the winners.

Ask the small businesses who lost business to the casino what they think. Ask the venues that used to host some of those concerts what they think. Ask the bar-owners who lost their smoking customers to the Casinos what they think. Ask the dude who spent all night there trying to win the mortgage, or his daughter's education, back, then flew outta the parking lot at 70 MPH at 7 in the morning, what he thought.

I walked thru the greektown a couple years ago, in the lower level of what used to be trappers alley. Beige and windowless, it is the single most depressing place in the state of Michigan. Screw the casinos. This thread sucks.

Thank you.

**jerrytimes** · October-30-12, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Casinos are always the winners.

Ask the small businesses who lost business to the casino what they think. Ask the venues that used to host some of those concerts what they think. Ask the bar-owners who lost their smoking customers to the Casinos what they think. Ask the dude who spent all night there trying to win the mortgage, or his daughter's education, back, then flew outta the parking lot at 70 MPH at 7 in the morning, what he thought.

I walked thru the greektown a couple years ago, in the lower level of what used to be trappers alley. Beige and windowless, it is the single most depressing place in the state of Michigan. Screw the casinos. This thread sucks.

Really? Now while I don't think that the Detroit area needs any more casinos, how can you say that downtown was better off before? Sure, the new stadiums have brought more to help revitalize the area, but thousands of people go downtown daily that normally wouldn't. I'm one of them, and I don't go to gamble often, but I like going to Greektown casino for other reasons. Sure, I'll drop $20 in some slots, but that's about it. I'd never stepped foot in a single Greektown restaurant before the casino was there, now, I do at least once a month.

The complaint about the smokers leaving, that's something that you should be mad at the state about. You should be able to smoke wherever a bar owner wants to allow you too. I know that casinos begged for that, but the government did it. Also, the guy losing his house because of a gambling addiction, oh well. That's that persons problem. If the casinos weren't here, he/she would do that at a different one. The casinos employ tens of thousands of people, not only in Detroit but also in the USA.

**Gistok** · October-30-12, 03:21 AM

Actually the casinos promised over 11,000 jobs in the city... but they've downsized to about 7,000 employees now...

**Honky Tonk** · October-30-12, 04:10 AM

"I walked thru the greektown a couple years ago, in the lower level of what used to be trappers alley. Beige and windowless, it is the single most depressing place in the state of Michigan. Screw the casinos. This thread sucks."

Where I live, there are senior citizen apartments in the neighborhood. I watch as "tour buses" come and pick up the seniors around the first of each month and take them for a "tour" of the casinos. Of course, it isn't @ gunpoint, but still.... I've been to each one once, and yes it is depressing. There are no scantily clothed hot chicks blowing on and rolling dice, like the pictures on the billboards, only old or lost people with oxygen tanks and tubes in their noses mechanically pulling the levers over and over. Everyone I talk to always "hits" it, so I have no idea how the casinos manage to keep their doors open. That being said, @ the time, the estimate was 4 mil $'s weekly were going across Matty's bridge to Windsor. Just like alcohol or drugs, people are going to do what people do, might as well keep the money over here.

**Zacha341** · October-30-12, 05:20 AM

Back when I was doing the stupid casinos I too noted the 'oxygen' tank toting seniors and wondered why the casinos gave that a pass? There'd people smoking like a chimney sitting right next to the person! Where was, is the fire marshal regarding that?? Appropriately silenced I guess.

In general seeing folks of all ages waste their time and money over time at the penny slots was depressing. Most are not winning much - not nearly what they plow in, and many play back their 'winnings' as part of the greed factor casinos bank on.

The payout cages have reduced their staff accordingly. Even the comps at MGM for example have diminished from what they were.

Casino's are VERY good for the "owners" and in a limited manner here in Detroit now as their profit edge has dropped. Nearly all of the people I know who used to gamble have either cut down or ended the USELESS habit all together as I did.

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Where I live, there are senior citizen apartments in the neighborhood. I watch as "tour buses" come and pick up the seniors around the first of each month and take them for a "tour" of the casinos. Of course, it isn't @ gunpoint, but still.... I've been to each one once, and yes it is depressing. There are no scantily clothed hot chicks blowing on and rolling dice, like the pictures on the billboards, only old or lost people with oxygen tanks and tubes in their noses mechanically pulling the levers over and over. Everyone I talk to always "hits" it...

**Zacha341** · October-30-12, 05:27 AM

Over-promising and under-delivering is the agenda and core operating procedure of all Casinos at nearly all levels. No surprise there!

Originally Posted by Gistok

Actually the casinos promised over 11,000 jobs in the city... but they've downsized to about 7,000 employees now...

**Zacha341** · October-30-12, 05:36 AM

Precisely, casino's are self-insulated, surrounding business 'VOIDING' centers of fiscal insolvency for the most part! Some gamblers will rationalize their presence [[I used to), and I say all power to them - for the three joints we're stuck with. Each person has to make a choice. But Detroit needs NO more more blood-sucking CASINO's!

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Ask the small businesses who lost business to the casino what they think. Ask the venues that used to host some of those concerts what they think. Ask the bar-owners who lost their smoking customers to the Casinos what they think. Ask the dude who spent all night there trying to win the mortgage, or his daughter's education, back, then flew outta the parking lot at 70 MPH at 7 in the morning, what he thought.

**Honky Tonk** · October-30-12, 07:04 AM

"Nearly all of the people I know who used to gamble have either cut down or ended the USELESS habit all together as I did."

Good for you, Zacha341!

**Bham1982** · October-30-12, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

R Sure, the new stadiums have brought more to help revitalize the area, but thousands of people go downtown daily that normally wouldn't.

Right, and 100% of that money goes to the casinos.

The casino goers all park in the casino facility, spend their money [[whether gambling, food, whatever) in the casino facility, and then leave.

The only benefit for downtown Detroit is more traffic.

And folks only have "X" consumer spending capabilities. Every dollar they're spending in a casino means "X-1" dollars spent in area restaurants, shopping centers, entertainment venues, etc. It's a zero-sum game when your gamblers are all local.

**mfehan** · October-30-12, 08:01 AM

If people want to gamble, let them gamble. There are always so many who will flame a casino supporter on this site.

I have many friends that are employed by the casino's and although it may not be 11,000 and only 7,000, think of all the jobs it did temporarily create durring the construction.

You cannot deny the fact that the casino's contribute to the tax base of the city and without that money the city would be in a much worse place.

I support the casino's but I also gamble responsibly. Getting mad at the casino's for people who have lost everything due to a gambling problem is like getting mad at the corner liquor store for all the drunks in the neighborhood. At least the casino's offer help to people with gambling problems.

**Bagley** · October-30-12, 08:52 AM

If you'd never spent much time in Greektown before the casino, you might not realize that it used to be an authentic cultural landmark. Now it is a joke in that regard. The Greektown neighborhood added value to the families who lived there and in surrounding neighborhoods. The Greektown casino adds only traffic, litter and human waste on sidewalks. This may be the least thoughtful thread I've ever read. "I won $30 so now casinos are a perfectly acceptable way of taxing the poor and the ignorant."

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

Really? Now while I don't think that the Detroit area needs any more casinos, how can you say that downtown was better off before? Sure, the new stadiums have brought more to help revitalize the area, but thousands of people go downtown daily that normally wouldn't. I'm one of them, and I don't go to gamble often, but I like going to Greektown casino for other reasons. Sure, I'll drop $20 in some slots, but that's about it. I'd never stepped foot in a single Greektown restaurant before the casino was there, now, I do at least once a month.

The complaint about the smokers leaving, that's something that you should be mad at the state about. You should be able to smoke wherever a bar owner wants to allow you too. I know that casinos begged for that, but the government did it. Also, the guy losing his house because of a gambling addiction, oh well. That's that persons problem. If the casinos weren't here, he/she would do that at a different one. The casinos employ tens of thousands of people, not only in Detroit but also in the USA.

**Strong** · October-30-12, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Casinos are always the winners.

Ask the small businesses who lost business to the casino what they think. Ask the venues that used to host some of those concerts what they think. Ask the bar-owners who lost their smoking customers to the Casinos what they think. Ask the dude who spent all night there trying to win the mortgage, or his daughter's education, back, then flew outta the parking lot at 70 MPH at 7 in the morning, what he thought.

I walked thru the greektown a couple years ago, in the lower level of what used to be trappers alley. Beige and windowless, it is the single most depressing place in the state of Michigan. Screw the casinos. This thread sucks.

I have supported more than the casino as a result of the casinos. I have eaten at several Greektown restaurants because Greektown casino doesn't really have a nice restaurant or I wanted to try something else, MGM restaurants are too expensive, being that they are buffets and Motorcity are also expensive.
I have had hung out with friends who got hotel rooms in each of the casinos and had big fun.
I have talked with waitresses and slot helpers and they all express appreciation for having a job.
And, I know people who came to Detroit to gamble which also lead them to see other attractions, like our museums and concert venues but the casinos was the major reason for their visit.
Finally I agree that I don't want any more casinos anywhere near Detroit.
And maybe just maybe my next $.75 cents will bring another $30.

**Gannon** · October-30-12, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Strong

I have supported more than the casino as a result of the casinos. I have eaten at several Greektown restaurants because Greektown casino doesn't really have a nice restaurant or I wanted to try something else, MGM restaurants are too expensive, being that they are buffets and Motorcity are also expensive.
I have had hung out with friends who got hotel rooms in each of the casinos and had big fun.
I have talked with waitresses and slot helpers and they all express appreciation for having a job.
And, I know people who came to Detroit to gamble which also lead them to see other attractions, like our museums and concert venues but the casinos was the major reason for their visit.
Finally I agree that I don't want any more casinos anywhere near Detroit.
And maybe just maybe my next $.75 cents will bring another $30.

Beginner's Luck. Ever heard of it?!

My first time in a casino was the Las Vegas Holiday Inn's "Kiddie Casino" over a decade ago, on a date with a woman who turned out to be Channel 5's Traffic and Weather girl in LA. [[I was wondering why it seemed she knew so many people while we were walking down the strip)

I knew I had $60 bucks in my pocket to 'waste', she agreed she'd quit at $40. While wandering around and trying various games, we discovered we shared the same birthdate, 11-28. Down to our last bucks, we decided to put it "all" on the Roulette Table. You guessed it, we won. Ended up leaving with more money than we came in with...the rest of the night was as magical.

I didn't take that as any imagination that the next time would, or COULD be anywhere near as amazing. I've still not stepped into any of the casinos here willingly...and feel the need to remind everyone that when the one opened in Windsor, the number of gambler's anonymous chapters in Detroit went from 5 to 200 within a year...well before any of this scourge hit this side of the straight.

Five to TWO HUNDRED, according to the Free Press at the time.

No cheers on this one, I am not a fan of any of the casinos. But, since the argument seems to be a similar one to guns, neither seem to hurt people on their own...they both need willing users in order for any victims to be made. Not unlike suicide with a gun, my stance on freedoms to do what I want up until it negatively affects anyone else forces me to stand down and say my piece while letting others learn the same lesson Zacha and her friends did. Casinos are a one-way wealth siphon, which sucks gambler's souls away through their wallets.

**poobert** · October-30-12, 10:08 AM

These casino threads, while they bring up many valid points, always have a slight odor of good old-fashioned Puritanical abstentionism. If Joe is going to blow his money on gambling, he'll find a way to do that without a casino. Sorry, but take some responsibility.

What I hate about the casinos really is the aesthetic. I realize casinos these days are rarely pretty places but everything about them does generally suck. I would have liked the city to exercise some non-superblock suburban planning for once and demand they be built in some kind of cohesive way, like a "strip." As they stand, they have all the charm of a Wal-Mart that allows smoking. There are way nicer places to hang out in this town. Frankly I'd spend more time in them if they weren't so fucking low-brow.

As for the crowd being depressing, well, have you seen Metro Detroit? Health problems, elderly, and poorly-dressed, you say? Are you new here? It sounds like the Lions game I just went to.

You scoff at the jobs but if you're scoffing at 9,000 jobs in Detroit I invite you to come to the eastside. Jobs don't flow like milk and honey around here. I know a lot of people who work or have worked for the casinos and earn a decent living. That is hard to come by in our day and age, and you can't eat lofty principles. Same goes for tax revenue. The cops would probably rather have a paycheck than some sermon on the evils of casinos.

**TKshreve** · October-30-12, 10:19 AM

There's something ironic about the ~9000 jobs created by the casinos being correlated with the amount of livelihoods that are more or less wrecked by the existence of said casinos.

**Bham1982** · October-30-12, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

You scoff at the jobs but if you're scoffing at 9,000 jobs in Detroit I invite you to come to the eastside.

Keep in mind that we're probably not talking about net new jobs here. Personal spending is fixed, so every dollar going to "gaming" is presumably a dollar not going to some other job-creating expense.

**Danny** · October-30-12, 10:22 AM

CaSINos are evil!

Shollin · October-30-12, 10:23 AM

I read a study recently that the casinos contribute about 15% of Detroit's general budget via tax revenue. Imagine Detroit's financial crisis without that revenue. People scoff at 7000-9000 good paying jobs, but praise a Buffalo Wild Wings who might hire 50-100 employees, most who may be minimum wage, part time dishwashers.

**poobert** · October-30-12, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by TKshreve

There's something ironic about the ~9000 jobs created by the casinos being correlated with the amount of livelihoods that are more or less wrecked by the existence of said casinos.

Before all you needed to do was go to Windsor to wreck said life. You can really bet on anything - sports, elections, horses - in order to wreck yourself. People who have a problem should get help.

It's like Prohibition. The logic was that alcohol ruined lives so that getting rid of alcohol would prevent people from ruining their lives. How well did that work out? The junkie will stop at nothing to get his fix, and those who don't have a problem will still figure out ways to do what they enjoy.

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Keep in mind that we're probably not talking about net new jobs here. Personal spending is fixed, so every dollar going to "gaming" is presumably a dollar not going to some other job-creating expense.

Those 9,000 people with jobs now have a paycheck to spend and I'm willing to bet it won't be at the casino.

Create 9,000 jobs and fill 15% of the city's budget and I'll shut up.

**TKshreve** · October-30-12, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

Those 9,000 people with jobs now have a paycheck to spend and I'm willing to bet it won't be at the casino.

Create 9,000 jobs and fill 15% of the city's budget and I'll shut up.

Um....... You had me quoted for that second part when in fact it was not me who said that.

But just to add, how do you know that those who work at casinos are not visiting casinos themselves? Seems like a bit of an assumption to me.

**poobert** · October-30-12, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by TKshreve

Um....... You had me quoted for that second part when in fact it was not me who said that.

Sorry about that, fixed.

The second part is indeed an assumption. And assumption that the people who work at the casinos are in fact buying cars, paying rent, shopping, and dining at places that are not the casino.

**jcole** · October-30-12, 05:12 PM

If you work in a casino, you are prohibited from gambling in that casino, so that knocks out at least 1/3 of the places employees can gamble.

**softailrider** · October-30-12, 06:39 PM

I have absolutely no problem with casinos. They can build as many of them as they want - they don't bother me at all. Sometimes I'll feel like playing Blackjack or shooting dice, if I go I'm well aware I'm going to lose most of the time. Sometimes, I'll walk out with some of their money. Most of the time I'll think about going down to gamble, decide I'm better off keeping my money and I don't go.

Adults have to be held accountable for their actions. Not trying to sound harsh but, If you gamble away your kids lunch money and you have to forage in garbage cans for food, ask the casinos to bar you from entering, they'll be happy to accommodate you.