Blue Flu? Cops sabotaging traffic ticket prosecution?

**Lowell** · October-10-12, 09:27 AM

So alleges Councilman Charles Pugh. He appears to be claiming that DPD officers are showing up unprepared or not appearing at traffic ticket hearings. This is leading to ticket dismissal with the loss of thousands of dollars.

Detroit City Council President Charles Pugh called for an investigation Tuesday into what he says is a deliberate effort by some police officers to deprive the city of thousands of dollars in revenue by showing up unprepared to court hearings for traffic tickets they have issued.

In a letter sent to Interim Police Chief Chester Logan and Chief Judge Kenneth King of the 36th District Court in Detroit last week, Pugh called the officers' performance an "intentional act" to "significantly reduce the amount of revenue generated by the 36th District Court from traffic violations."

from Freep via DeadlineDetroit

If so, would this surprise anybody? Um, maybe the cops are getting some SLEEEP?

**rutlev** · October-10-12, 10:15 AM

Okay, where do we want them? On the street? On patrol? or
wasting time sitting in the 36th for testimony in a traffic violation? Can't have it both ways. Doesn't Pugh have other things to address?

**brizee** · October-10-12, 10:26 AM

I think DPD are making some big miscalculations lately. They're gonna find the general public that usually has their back [[not reciprocated at all BTW) will quickly turn on them.

They also should just follow Highland Park's model. People don't want the points[[because insurance is allowed to fuck this city hogwild on prices). They will let you plead to a no point violation for a higher price. There was a line of twenty people in the morning. No judge. Just a clerk saying anyone who wanted to plead down have your money/payment plan and go down stairs. City gets their money, motorist gets no points on his license.

Detroit and Livonia make you waste your time either grovelling before a judge or rescheduling for an actual trial to bullshit your way out.

**DanFromDetroit** · October-10-12, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

I think DPD are making some big miscalculations lately. They're gonna find the general public that usually has their back [[not reciprocated at all BTW) will quickly turn on them.

I don't know - I fully support any officer who allows me to get out of a ticket.

Also, always always always go to court. Dress nice and be polite. The majority of the time when I have done this [[more often than I'd like) I've received major leniency from the court. Moving violations turned into parking violations, no points, no record with my insurance. It boggles my mind how many people show up looking like bums or don't show up at all and just accept the rate increase etc.

**Zacha341** · October-10-12, 10:52 AM

Thank you! Well stated!

Originally Posted by rutlev

Okay, where do we want them? On the street? On patrol? or wasting time sitting in the 36th for testimony in a traffic violation? Can't have it both ways. Doesn't Pugh have other things to address?

**Wesley Mouch** · October-10-12, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by rutlev

Okay, where do we want them? On the street? On patrol? or
wasting time sitting in the 36th for testimony in a traffic violation? Can't have it both ways. Doesn't Pugh have other things to address?

We want them doing their jobs. And that includes showing up in traffic court.

**p69rrh51** · October-10-12, 12:48 PM

You mean they show up for their court dates?? Its been an ongoing joke for as long as i can remember! Back in my lead foot days I got out of at least 10 tickets because the cops did not show and that is going back over 30 years. The last ticket the judge held me all day long hoping the cop would show up because she was so disgusted with my record in Detroit. Even then the officer did not show. She tried to admonish me but when I brought up the missing cop not doing his job she threw me out of her court. Many of the burbs pay overtime or schedule specific days for court dates, maybe its time for Detroit to wise up!

**Islandman** · October-10-12, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

They also should just follow Highland Park's model. People don't want the points[[because insurance is allowed to fuck this city hogwild on prices). They will let you plead to a no point violation for a higher price. There was a line of twenty people in the morning. No judge. Just a clerk saying anyone who wanted to plead down have your money/payment plan and go down stairs. City gets their money, motorist gets no points on his license.

Detroit and Livonia make you waste your time either grovelling before a judge or rescheduling for an actual trial to bullshit your way out.

Exactly. This is done all over the U.S. In Charlotte, they have an ADA that you can see to get your ticket reduced even if you miss your court date, and the same ADA will be in court prior to your case being called to reduce the court's time with traffic. I, unfortunately, have found out on several occasions how great this system works.

This would be the kind of forward thinking that would help everyone involved. The last thing cops want to do, especially night shift cops, is to be up all night and then have to go to court in the morning.

**Lowell** · October-10-12, 03:17 PM

A lot of places are giving out the tickets then offering to change them to non-point tickets if one takes a traffic safety course, either with the jurisdiction or online. They get a cut, no points are issues. win-win

**DetroitPlanner** · October-10-12, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by rutlev

Okay, where do we want them? On the street? On patrol? or
wasting time sitting in the 36th for testimony in a traffic violation? Can't have it both ways. Doesn't Pugh have other things to address?

Not to mention they now have screwy schedules. They only work 3 or 4 days a week, weekends, etc. Court don't work like that! If you're working 12 hour days and your scheduled to be in court on an off day, how are you going to make that work?

**DetroitPlanner** · October-10-12, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

You mean they show up for their court dates?? Its been an ongoing joke for as long as i can remember! Back in my lead foot days I got out of at least 10 tickets because the cops did not show and that is going back over 30 years. The last ticket the judge held me all day long hoping the cop would show up because she was so disgusted with my record in Detroit. Even then the officer did not show. She tried to admonish me but when I brought up the missing cop not doing his job she threw me out of her court. Many of the burbs pay overtime or schedule specific days for court dates, maybe its time for Detroit to wise up!

LOL! I remember those days! Yeah that was about 30 years ago. Being a teen with a license and a 360 cubic inch engine was fun till ya got caught! I remember pleased not guilty several times with a big ole $h!t eating grin on my face and a lecture!

Lowell, I got a ticket last year. I had just entered the town of Oscoda from the very rural AuSable River Rd and a cop was there right as the speed changed. It was my first ticket in 20+ years and after I paid it I got a notice from the SOS that if I elected to take a driver's safety course I would get no points. It took me a day but it save me bucks over several years.

**Sandhouse** · October-10-12, 03:46 PM

"I got a notice from the SOS that if I elected to take a driver's safety course I would get no points. It took me a day but it save me bucks over several years."

Don't be too sure. The new law that took effect a couple months ago allows you to take an approved driver re-education course, and avoid accrual of driver-license points. These are the points recorded by the Secretary of State, and they are used to identify candidates for license suspension [[12 or more) or the $200 points tax [[7 or more). These points live on your license for two years.

These are not the same as insurance-eligibility points, which are calculated by your insurance company, and used to determine your premiums. If you pled guilty to a moving violation in friendly Oscoda, the conviction is on your driving record, where it may be seen by the next cop to pull you over [[he'll have your record in hand before he gets out of his car) and your insurer, who may jack up your rates for years to come.

The training-class law is of very limited utility, since most drivers never get 7 points; it was basically a fund-raiser for the National Safety Council, which approves the driver-education class suppliers and takes a cut. Now, if it expunged your driving record, that would be valuable. But it doesn't.

**sirrealone** · October-11-12, 06:57 AM

If they can't respond to 911 calls until hours later, how do they have time to be writing traffic tickets in the first place?

**Zacha341** · October-11-12, 07:30 AM

Because one generate revenue perhaps....

....

**Hermod** · October-11-12, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Because one generate revenue perhaps....

....

Bingo!! Pugh's interest is in the revenue loss to the city.

I remember a city in Texas called Belton. They annexed just enough land to get a section of Highway 190 into their jurisdiction. They kept their one and only patrol car on that little stretch.

Killeen, TX [[Fort Hood) was bone dry in those days and the soldiers had to go 30 miles east to Temple TX to get a mixed drink in a bar. On their way back to Fort Hood, they passed over the little stretch of the highway belonging to Belton.

The Belton cop never cited them for DUI [[unless they were falling down drunk), he just gave them a speeding ticket. The standard fine was $3.50 with $15.00 in "court costs". If you wanted a court date to protest the ticket, the Justice of the Peace hit you with a $100.00 bond. Most of the soldiers just paid the $18.50 [[this was 1963 when a PFC drew about $80 a month in take home pay).

Belton had almost zero property taxes and made their town budget off that little stretch of highway 190.

**Honky Tonk** · October-11-12, 07:47 AM

"[[because insurance is allowed to fuck this city hogwild on prices)"

I object. Let's be a bit more real here. Detroit is one of the WORST areas for auto theft, parts theft, vandalism, or scams. You seriously can't expect insurance companies to just keep paying out.