Detroit: Enter At Your Own Risk - DPOA Protest

**Lostlegumes** · October-07-12, 07:54 AM

Flyers handed out outside the ballpark warning people about Detroit. Really?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/...at_pco=cfd-1.0

**Lowell** · October-07-12, 10:29 AM

Sounds like the DPOA may have had enough. I wonder why? Could 12 hour shifts and pay cutbacks to those who serve in the most dangerous areas of our state have anything to do with it?

While I sympathize with them completely, scaring away what will be a largely suburban audience attending their protest is bad for the City of Detroit and ultimately for their cause.

The City of Detroit simply can't pay what is needed to provide protection of its citizens and visitors on its own AND care for almost all of the region's poor and disabled and who cannot pay taxes but cost taxes. The rest of the state either needs to take an equivalent share of that problem or provide state or other police protection.

**professorscott** · October-07-12, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Lostlegumes

Flyers handed out outside the ballpark warning people about Detroit. Really?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/...at_pco=cfd-1.0

Childish way to deal with a serious problem. This is going to just get Detroit yet more negative publicity that it doesn't need, and as Lowell pointed out, doesn't even come near discussing the actual root of the problem.

I'm almost to the point of advocating for the Ontario solution though it would likely never get anywhere around here.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-07-12, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

I'm almost to the point of advocating for the Ontario solution though it would likely never get anywhere around here.

Pardon my ignorance, what is the Ontario solution?

**DetroitPlanner** · October-07-12, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Pardon my ignorance, what is the Ontario solution?

Amalgamation.

**Meddle** · October-07-12, 11:11 AM

Maybe the Camden solution.

Abolish DPD and go with a countywide force, different from WCSO.

Most importantly would be all new brass, no holdovers or transfers unless their morality and integrity can be documented.

Maybe even partially dissolve WCSO as far as separating the Jail operations and put the road patrol under the new management.

Other communities like HP could join in if they wish.

**antongast** · October-07-12, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Amalgamation.

Ontario should just annex us, eh.

**Honky Tonk** · October-07-12, 11:39 AM

We're in disagreement here. In fact, I commend their decision to hand out the flyers. My contention for years now has been "If you need a cop, go to a sports event". There are half a dozen on each corner. They've gone through cut-backs, negotiations, mediation, and it all seems to fall on deaf ears. Crime in this City is no joke. Forget murders, property crimes, assaults, snatch & grabs, I bet you can't count them all. As far as the rest of "the State taking an equivalent share", peole in other parts of the state have their own problems. How would everyone feel if Detroit taxes were raised to offset unemployment or the FD in Ishpeming? You can't get local people to come together. I read posts here constantly "Yay Midtown, all other areas, Oh well". Maybe an additinal tax on Midtown residents for the great services they receive? I'm getting tired of paying Detroit taxes and getting bupkis in return. "Leave a message, and a cop will return your call during our normal business hours".

**cla1945** · October-07-12, 12:25 PM

The DPOA, the DFFA and AFSCME have all had enough. As I've said hundreds of times before... paycuts, healthcare cuts, more hours, antiquated equipment or no equipment...then add to the equation, inept leadership, an absent, wussy mayor, a council that fights against anything that may improve Detroit or help it; a Chief of Police who is sleeping around and preaching the gospel; A Lieutenant in the Police force who slept her way to the top. [[saving condoms along the way); another Police officer who works in Internal Affairs who slept her way to her position and finally putting the muzzle of her department issued revolver in her mouth simulating a suicide action; 5 or 6 different Fire Commissioners; 3 or 4 new Commanders... lord knows what else....and I would say, "yes, they've had enough".

Everyone blames a cop for not showing up at a crime scene, yet they are not the ones who make the rules as to when and where they go. Everyone complains about too many officers downtown and thinks it's the officers fault...they are put where the Commanders put them! The Commanders are instructed by the Chief [[Godbee, between pillow talk and work), to detail the cops to different places. The thing with Detroits administration is, make downtown look safe. Place the officers where it makes the most difference and Detroit can generate some money from residents and suburbanites coming down to attend games and spend their money in restaurants. That's the mentality and mindset of the administration....not the officers. Believe me, they want to be out there and do more but they can't act on their own and buck the administration.

The Fire Department gets blamed for not being able to save Ivory Ivey a little girl in Detroit, because the equipment sent was not a pumper truck. It was a TAC unit that was being used to transport firefighters to a scene because the other rigs were out of service. The firefighters were specifically ordered NOT to use the TAC for anything other than transportation. Those firefighters on the scene of that particular fire are haunted, knowing that they may have been able to save her had they had proper equipment.

Someone [[and I wish I knew who) needs to start getting rid of all the fat at the top of the administration in all aspects of the City of Detroit government. Then, try to find a few good, honest people with integrity to start making some wise decisions and get Detroit back running again. No need to fire anyone. No need to cut salaries. No need to demoralize any department any further. When a Detroit cop makes what a mall cop makes...that's absolutely sick. The City of Detroit needs to starting backing their employees instead of taking their bone marrow.

**mwilbert** · October-07-12, 12:48 PM

The police have every right to be dismayed about and to protest their inadequate numbers, their working conditions and the history [[right up until the present) of poor management of their department.

What they think handing out flyers will accomplish I have no idea.

**cla1945** · October-07-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

The police have every right to be dismayed about and to protest their inadequate numbers, their working conditions and the history [[right up until the present) of poor management of their department.

What they think handing out flyers will accomplish I have no idea.

Other than walking off the job [[which they are not allowed to do because of contractural obligations even though the City is not holding up their end of the contract), this is about the only form of protest they can do. The flyer simply tells the general public of the circumstances in which they are forced to work in hopes that they will understand what a police officer in Detroit is being asked to give up.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-07-12, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

Other than walking off the job [[which they are not allowed to do because of contractural obligations even though the City is not holding up their end of the contract), this is about the only form of protest they can do. The flyer simply tells the general public of the circumstances in which they are forced to work in hopes that they will understand what a police officer in Detroit is being asked to give up.

It may be the only 'form' -- but it could be done responsibly and with respect to the residents. Not destructively. I have no respect for people who frighten and alarm residents and visitors.

**Wheels** · October-07-12, 03:41 PM

You can't handle the truth!

**cla1945** · October-07-12, 03:46 PM

Wesley Mouch I have to disagree 100%. What made the officers irresponsible in your eyes? How were the officers disrespectful to the residents of Detroit?

There was nothing destructive about what they did or how they did it. The residents of Detroit are already frightened and alarmed at what is happening to their City as we speak. Suburbanites read papers and know what is happening as well. Unfortunately, it is my feelings that the DPD administrators, appointees, commanders, chiefs and others will do their best to target those officers that were out there the other evening and dicipline them. Instead of concentrating on the problems they have, and the biggest ones are Bing and Godbee right now, they will go after the ones who are simply trying to bring problems to the attention of the public.

The flyer simply tried to make people [[residents and non-residents) aware of exactly what is going on in Detroit. Detroit is a violent city...can you dispute that? Detroit has the highest homicide rate in the country...I doubt if anyone could dispute that. The DPD is highly understaffed, working 12 hour shifts, the lowest paid officers in the country, the DPD have made major concessions in wages, pensions, healthcare. The DPD is being bullied by Andy Dillon with threats of another 10% wage cut...can you dispute any of that?

Unfortunately, even the City administrators have "no respect" for the officers who serve and [[try to) protect. Instead of handcuffing thugs and criminals, the police officers hands are handcuffed by the powers that be in Detroit.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-07-12, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

You can't handle the truth!

Ha!

The truth of course is that there's no evidence I'm aware of that DPD is salvageable. The truth is therefore that the Camden solution is called for.

Be a radical. Tear down the system.

**jtf1972** · October-07-12, 04:01 PM

Yet another thing that makes the city look ridiculous. The police have a job to keep the city safe. They hand out flyers warning people to enter at their own risk? Great. Just great. I understand their plight and agree with it, but this will do nothing but give those with contempt for the city another thing to point and laugh at. It will do NOTHING to further their cause.

**drpoundsign** · October-07-12, 04:11 PM

If Drugs were Legal and education better, there would BE less crime

**Zacha341** · October-07-12, 04:14 PM

Or education legal and drugs better - perhaps! ....

....

Jokes aside, to a large degree this about values. Those who don't value education will not partake in the process.

Originally Posted by drpoundsign

If Drugs were Legal and education better, there would BE less crime

**brizee** · October-07-12, 06:20 PM

I'm usually sympathetic to and on the side of labor and collective bargaining.

But the Detroit Police are pissing me off more than a little bit lately.

You have one of the worst response times in the country. You ignore people's problems, you show up hours late, and your dispatchers have the most cavalier don't give a shit attitude.

You have one of the lowest homicide clearance rates in the country. When you can be assed to actually respond to a call you don't do anything to remedy it.

The police department itself has one of the highest homicide rates in the country. You're quicker to abust and shoot the citizenry down than you are to solving a case.

While you're hooting and hollering, what fucking good are you actually doing to the citizens? Detroit may be a dangerous city to enter. And you help it to be that way.

You politicked Engler and congress/senate to do away with residency. That helped to erode the tax base further. Which incidentally geniuses goes to pay your salary!

I'm gonna step out on a limb and assume most cops are red and voted for Snyder. He's the guy that went chainsaw on revenue sharing and pushed this EMF austerity bullshit. Again that pays your salary.

I'm sure most of them are also gonna vote for Romney. Yeah good luck getting any Federal assistance to your sorry ass department.

Maybe submit some resumes to Troy or Eastpointe, or Dearborn or wherever the fuck it is you politicked so hard to live.

You made your bed.
Stop bitching like a stuck little girl.
Lie in it.

**313WX** · October-07-12, 08:55 PM

Perfectly said brizee.

As far as voting for Romney, the funny and ironic thing is George Romney was the last Michigan governor that was actually Detroit-centric and legitimately cared about helping the city.

Same goes for the firefighters and teachers in fact.

The blame for Detroit's problems is equally spread across the table:

city folks & suburbanites
city leaders
suburban leaders
folks across the state
state leaders.

**MaxCady** · October-07-12, 09:53 PM

Reminds me of the T-shirt - "Detroit, where the weak are killed and eaten"

**Bad Brains** · October-08-12, 02:44 AM

The city is still shrinking so they are still loosing tax base. Naturally the police force is going to shrink as a result.

They should voice out, maybe it will get them the help they need. I don't know If I agree with this approach. In reality, a very small percentage of the people who go to Tigers games live in the city or really care about what goes on in the neighborhoods. People are talking about this though, so they did something right.

**nain rouge** · October-08-12, 04:04 AM

The cops responsible for Detroit raise an important point suburban visitors should consider whenever they attend a game: do we want to save Detroit or not? Saving Detroit means putting more police on the ground - just to start - and the only way there'll ever be enough money to do things like that is if the suburbs chip in. Otherwise, Detroit is destined to become a collection of urban "villages" surrounded by prairies or farms [[I'm reminded of a recent national article I read that noted how desolate it is between Corktown and downtown, although I can't find the link).

Indianapolis managed to save itself by uniting with the suburbs. So did Jacksonville. At some point in Metro Detroit's a history, the relationship between the central city and the suburbs became a bizarre "us vs. them" battle, ravaging Detroit in the process. In the end, we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.

We're still funding sprawl - new roads and utilities are still being built on the outskirts of our metro area all the time. We could choose to divert that funding back to Detroit, if we really wanted to. But do we really in our heart of hearts think the majority of the city is worth saving? That's the question, and it's a heavy one. Celebrating a new restaurant or apartment opening in Midtown takes our minds off it, but it's always there, looming ominously in the background.

Detroit is dying. That's a fact by almost any measurable. What are you gonna do?

**ronaldj** · October-08-12, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

The cops responsible for Detroit raise an important point suburban visitors should consider whenever they attend a game: do we want to save Detroit or not? Saving Detroit means putting more police on the ground - just to start - and the only way there'll ever be enough money to do things like that is if the suburbs chip in. Otherwise, Detroit is destined to become a collection of urban "villages" surrounded by prairies or farms [[I'm reminded of a recent national article I read that noted how desolate it is between Corktown and downtown, although I can't find the link).

Indianapolis managed to save itself by uniting with the suburbs. So did Jacksonville. At some point in Metro Detroit's a history, the relationship between the central city and the suburbs became a bizarre "us vs. them" battle, ravaging Detroit in the process. In the end, we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.

We're still funding sprawl - new roads and utilities are still being built on the outskirts of our metro area all the time. We could choose to divert that funding back to Detroit, if we really wanted to. But do we really in our heart of hearts think the majority of the city is worth saving? That's the question, and it's a heavy one. Celebrating a new restaurant or apartment opening in Midtown takes our minds off it, but it's always there, looming ominously in the background.

Detroit is dying. That's a fact by almost any measurable. What are you gonna do?

What we do is police our little villages, write grants, clean our little "neck of the woods" Never thought I'd say this but Detroit is dead. Couldn't care about downtown, mid town.... my tax dollars subsidize that bull. Villages rule!

The little villages keep our city going, we preserve historic integrity and yes we do have quality of life.Amazing people still live here. Police response is good, EMS reponse good, Fire Dept response so so. Personally don't blame the fire dept since why risk life or limb for vacant buildings.

**michimoby** · October-08-12, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Indianapolis managed to save itself by uniting with the suburbs. So did Jacksonville. At some point in Metro Detroit's a history, the relationship between the central city and the suburbs became a bizarre "us vs. them" battle, ravaging Detroit in the process. In the end, we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Side note: Indianapolis Metro consolidated as a cost-saving measure more than anything else; the respective police forces were operating in a fairly efficient manner already. There's even some accounts that the consolidation made things far worse.

That said: Indy and Detroit are apples and oranges when it comes to consolidation comparisons. The gains we'd see in Detroit metro wrt efficiency, response times, and general patrol services [[especially outside the Midtown/Downtown/Corktown areas are far, far greater than what's been seen in Indy. Just speculation.