Wildcat Strike Building At Detroit Water Department?

**Lowell** · September-30-12, 10:13 PM

WXYZ 7 has just shown video of striking workers picketing outside the Detroit Water department plant in Southwest which started earlier today. They are said to be protesting wage cuts and layoffs. It is not clear if they have walked off the job [actually wildcatting], how many there are or if this is part of a larger actions.

It is headed to the courts tomorrow AM as Mayor Bing tries to get an injunction against the action. Water and sewage services are not yet affected.

Local 207 President John Riehl, who represents the workers on strike, says more than 900 staffers have agreed to the stoppage.

But in the statement from water department management Alfonso claimed it was only 30 workers who walked off the job, not 900.

Riehl says his members authorized a strike to protest Mayor Dave Bing’s plan to downsize the department, which includes layoffs of most of the department’s 2,000 workers. The plan also calls for outsourcing many of the positions to a private contractor.

Like most other city workers DPW staffers are also facing a 10-percent pay cut.

Who's next? Cops being forced to work 12 hour shifts while taking wage cuts?

**Zacha341** · October-01-12, 05:29 AM

Yikes! Who are the 'contract' folk to strike break this? Bold folk to cross this line... Would they even know these detailed systems?

Should I/ we start to buy case loads of bottled water? ---

---

**cla1945** · October-01-12, 07:29 AM

With Police and Fire, the City is not holding up their end of any contracts. In my mind, that voids anything agreed upon and the Police and Fire could strike. The City is already in an absolute mess, soon it will be total chaos.

**rb336** · October-01-12, 08:37 AM

If the workers vote to authorize the strike, therefor NOT a wildcat strike

**Wesley Mouch** · October-01-12, 09:27 AM

Oh no! They're on strike? Well then let's forget about that workforce reduction to match workload. Let the taxpayers keep paying. While we're at it -- let's give all the retirees a 14th monthly paycheck! They deserve it. We can just increase the resident income tax rate to 4%. And if that doesn't balance the books, 5%!

**MikeM** · October-01-12, 10:13 AM

Good luck AFSCME:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121001/METRO/210010376/Judge-grants-injunction-halt-water-department-strike?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

**Honky Tonk** · October-01-12, 10:35 AM

"Oh no! They're on strike? Well then let's forget about that workforce reduction to match workload. Let the taxpayers keep paying. While we're at it -- let's give all the retirees a 14th monthly paycheck! They deserve it. We can just increase the resident income tax rate to 4%. And if that doesn't balance the books, 5%!"

I'm with you. Everybody's having financial difficulty except the taxpayer. Highest millage, minimal police, fire, medical, and other City services. If you live and work here, double wammy. I'm getting so sorry I'm living here. If the criminals don't get you, lack of City services will.

**Danny** · October-01-12, 10:42 AM

KING BING is going to be gone next year. I can't wait!

It's so sick that the DPW workers just walk out of their plants and strike. While the wastewater treatment plants left empty causing raw and toxic sewage to flow into your kitchen and bathroom faucets.

Get back to work DPW workers! What good is money and sweet treat benefits while chaos and anarchy in our water supply looms. I do support the union, but you all also serving your proletarian brothers and sisters that needed a clean water to drink and cook food and water their lawns.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-01-12, 11:35 AM

Is anyone else feeling sorry for the hard working DWDS employee?

I do.

Somewhere in behind the guy whose job it is just to watch all fire hydrant repair work, there're some really hard-working guy getting the job done. I'd like to see the pay doubled for the 20% who stay employed after they get rid of the hydrant-watchers and their ilk.

I have no sympathy for the other 80%. They should have demanded not just wages and benefits from their Union. They should have demanded the ability and job descriptions necessary to make a contribution to the city for their paycheck.

**Honky Tonk** · October-01-12, 11:46 AM

I served a couple of years there under contract. Whatever you THINK is going on there, I can assure you you've never seen anything THAT disfunctional. If it were a real business, it would have gone under years ago. Without actually having data, I would say 80% is close. That being said, the other 20% were some of the hardest and concerned workers I have met.

**Kevgoblue** · October-01-12, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I served a couple of years there under contract. Whatever you THINK is going on there, I can assure you you've never seen anything THAT disfunctional. If it were a real business, it would have gone under years ago. Without actually having data, I would say 80% is close. That being said, the other 20% were some of the hardest and concerned workers I have met.

Well, I've never stepped foot in the place, but I call bullsh!t.
I have worked at numerous other companies however and I can ensure you that 80, or more likely 90, percent of the employees are decent people. Just like you, they want to go to work, do their job, go home, get paid on time and not have the boss mess with them. If the situation is as dysfunctional as you claim, chalk that up to the leadership, or lack therof. Maybe the prosecutor can tack that onto the charges for Victor Mercado.

Oh yeah, that 10% that aren't decent people..... a portion of them are excellent people. The rest are douchbags.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-01-12, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Well, I've never stepped foot in the place, but I call bullsh!t.
I have worked at numerous other companies however and I can ensure you that 80, or more likely 90, percent of the employees are decent people. Just like you, they want to go to work, do their job, go home, get paid on time and not have the boss mess with them. If the situation is as dysfunctional as you claim, chalk that up to the leadership, or lack therof. Maybe the prosecutor can tack that onto the charges for Victor Mercado.

Oh yeah, that 10% that aren't decent people..... a portion of them are excellent people. The rest are douchbags.

Read the study in another thread about the right workforce size for DWSD. If you think they have it wrong, you can half the size of the workforce reduction. It would still be more than 1/2 of the workforce.

I have firsthand knowledge of the 'fire hydrant' watcher job. Perhaps they've already eliminated this. Or maybe I'm wrong. But I'll bet not. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge? Bring it on. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Does that mean there are no DWSD jobs that need to be pruned? I see smoke. I think the fire is raging.

You do rightly point out that leadership is a problem. That doesn't absolve anyone else.

**Honky Tonk** · October-01-12, 02:05 PM

"Well, I've never stepped foot in the place, but I call bullsh!t"
"I have worked at numerous other companies however"

Well, Since you've NEVER stepped foot in THAT place, then you're just making things up now based on your emotion, and you really don't know, do you? I just hope that if and when cuts come, the right people are cut and not those actually doing the work. Otherwise someone else will jump in with "I told you so".

**Kevgoblue** · October-01-12, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Well, I've never stepped foot in the place, but I call bullsh!t"
"I have worked at numerous other companies however"

Well, Since you've NEVER stepped foot in THAT place, then you're just making things up now based on your emotion, and you really don't know, do you? I just hope that if and when cuts come, the right people are cut and not those actually doing the work. Otherwise someone else will jump in with "I told you so".

Not at all. I say that based on this thing that they call probablility and statistics. By definition the vast majority of us [[within 2 standard deviations) fall up under the guidelines of what is considered "normal". Unless somehow DWSD hires based on some skewed employment criteria, their pool of employees should be "normal" as well.

It could very well be true, that the level of expectations management has for the employees is incredibly low. But that doesn't mean the individuals are lazy and unconcerned as implied earlier.

How's this example....This Saturday morning you ask your son to take your car up to the car wash. 30 minutes later he returns. The car is shiny and clean and the interior has been vacumed. So was he a good son for getting your car washed [[what you asked him to do) or is he a lazy slacker for not getting the oil changed as well [[which he could taken action upon had he just checked the little sticker on the windshield)?

**Wesley Mouch** · October-01-12, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Not at all. I say that based on this thing that they call probablility and statistics. By definition the vast majority of us [[within 2 standard deviations) fall up under the guidelines of what is considered "normal". Unless somehow DWSD hires based on some skewed employment criteria, their pool of employees should be "normal" as well.

It could very well be true, that the level of expectations management has for the employees is incredibly low. But that doesn't mean the individuals are lazy and unconcerned as implied earlier.

How's this example....This Saturday morning you ask your son to take your car up to the car wash. 30 minutes later he returns. The car is shiny and clean and the interior has been vacumed. So was he a good son for getting your car washed [[what you asked him to do) or is he a lazy slacker for not getting the oil changed as well [[which he could taken action upon had he just checked the little sticker on the windshield)?

Didn't mean to imply they were lazy or unconcerned.

The structure is broken. Leadership is corrupt. Administration is incompetent. And the Union [[by its very nature) is regressive -- not progressive. From what I've seen of the employees -- and I have worked very closely with some of their teams -- they're just fine.

Hope that the 19% who remain around after the 'right-sizing' are the cream of the crop -- not the politically connected.

**Honky Tonk** · October-01-12, 05:43 PM

"How's this example....This Saturday morning you ask your son to take your car up to the car wash. 30 minutes later he returns. The car is shiny and clean and the interior has been vacumed. So was he a good son for getting your car washed [[what you asked him to do) or is he a lazy slacker for not getting the oil changed as well [[which he could taken action upon had he just checked the little sticker on the windshield)?"

This Saturday morning you ask your son to take your car up to the car wash. 6 hours later he returns. The inside of the car is a mess, fast food wrappers all over the carpeting, smells putrid, there's mud in every wheel well, tank's on empty. "Where were you?" "@ the library" "Did you get the car washed" "I forgot" "You FORGOT?" "Daaaad, Bobby & Billy & Frank & Todd are all coming over tomorrow and they're going to help me take it to the car wash." "You're grounded" [[wife comes out of the kitchen) "the agreement we had was that if you son is to be punished, you're to turn the punishing over to me. Futhermore, you never specified a time frame in which the car was to be washed, therefore this is your fault" "Sonny, Daddy didn't mean it, have a cookie and watch TV". Your turn Kevgoblue.

**Kevgoblue** · October-01-12, 07:15 PM

We've all seen the kid you described, and shook our heads. We're disgusted / apalled at the behavior displayed. But at the end of the day, those kids act as they do because for a long time the only thing they've been exposed to is a lack of good parenting. As a result they believe this substandard behavior is acceptable.

I believe my earlier quote was "It could very well be true, that the level of expectations management has for the employees is incredibly low."

As a general rule people will rise to your level of expectations. This is true for both your children and your employees. If you demand nothing from them, then that is exactly what you will get.

Maybe our difference in opinion lies in motivation theory. I'm more of a believer in Theory Y.
http://www.netmba.com/mgmt/ob/motivation/mcgregor/

**Honky Tonk** · October-02-12, 07:06 AM

Textbook philosophy is nice. My position there exposed me to every last detail of the operation, from the guy in the street digging with a pick-axe, to the Waterboard Commissioner, [[@ the time), himself. I spent time @ all locations. From the Commissioner’s office to the water processing plant in Port Huron, and everything in between. You can read all the philosophy you want, have the best intentions to implement whatever case study you find, but in the real world, what went on there, went on there. I’m willing to bet nothing has gotten more efficient in the past years. I’ve also worked for and currently am working for a Fortune 500 company. The comparison is staggering. I stand by my claim.

**Searay215** · October-02-12, 08:32 AM

Now I do not pretend to know all about how many people it really takes to run this water treatment plant, but it seems that all sectors of our working world has had to do more with fewer people. Although the number they are talking about seems to be a bit high for reduction, and again to be replaced by outsourcing, which is cheaper labor. I'd like to see how much the average person there makes with benefits and what they have been asked to give back. Sometimes people [[unions) will cut off their nose to spite their face.....Auto workers fought it for years, but finally when push came shove they relented.
Personally I hope they can find a middle ground that is acceptable, but I'm not sure that can happen.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-02-12, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

Now I do not pretend to know all about how many people it really takes to run this water treatment plant, but it seems that all sectors of our working world has had to do more with fewer people. Although the number they are talking about seems to be a bit high for reduction, and again to be replaced by outsourcing, which is cheaper labor. I'd like to see how much the average person there makes with benefits and what they have been asked to give back. Sometimes people [[unions) will cut off their nose to spite their face.....Auto workers fought it for years, but finally when push came shove they relented.
Personally I hope they can find a middle ground that is acceptable, but I'm not sure that can happen.

Agreed overall. More facts on what people really are being paid including benefits. This should be public record for all civic employees. But more important -- how hamstrung management is on work rules at DWSD. I can't emphasis enough as someone who has supervised union labor that this is the real issue -- can management get labor to change and modernize processes? Or is the Union resisting progressive, long-term, efficient changes in favor of member and union management benefits today.

Its a mistake to assume that a Union is looking out for its members. They mostly are concerned for their own survival. So they don't mind telling members to 'fight' -- when they should 'adjust'. 1) Union management gets backslaps for being tough, and 2) Union management would rather lose any one shop, than take an industry-wide haircut. They're paid on overall member dues. Just like a corporation, they work to their own benefit first. -- except the Wobblies.

**Danny** · October-02-12, 04:18 PM

The DPW workers' strike continues. So drink the water at your own risk!

You failed us Mayor Bing. You will be out real soon.

Mike Duggan for Mayor for Detroit 2013 He will save our city and put its services back to work immediately.

**Patrick** · October-02-12, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

The DPW workers' strike continues. So drink the water at your own risk!

You failed us Mayor Bing. You will be out real soon.

Mike Duggan for Mayor for Detroit 2013 He will save our city and put its services back to work immediately.

And now they are without jobs...finished

**Wesley Mouch** · October-02-12, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

And now they are without jobs...finished

The workers realized that the gig was up. If the consultant is even close to right, then 4 out of 5 workers will get the big bye-bye. Or maybe it'll just be 3 of 4. Or 2 out of 3. The odds for each individual workers aren't very good.

If you know you are in one of the classifications that do next to nothing -- why not strike.

The real question is... will the taxpayers care? If they're smart -- they won't. They'll be better off being abused by a privatized water board then massively abused by Mercado, Friends, and Associates.

Bye bye.

**detmsp** · October-02-12, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

Now I do not pretend to know all about how many people it really takes to run this water treatment plant, but it seems that all sectors of our working world has had to do more with fewer people. Although the number they are talking about seems to be a bit high for reduction, and again to be replaced by outsourcing, which is cheaper labor. I'd like to see how much the average person there makes with benefits and what they have been asked to give back. Sometimes people [[unions) will cut off their nose to spite their face.....Auto workers fought it for years, but finally when push came shove they relented.
Personally I hope they can find a middle ground that is acceptable, but I'm not sure that can happen.

Searay, the plan is to actually pay the workers more. The idea is that right now the job descriptions are incredibly narrow, so you end up having 4 people all doing different tasks that could potentially be handled by one person. The plan would be to use higher wages to attract more capable people who have the skills to replace the work currently being done by multiple people.

**corktownyuppie** · October-02-12, 09:23 PM

Agreed. Average wages will actually rise. Because it makes more sense to pay $90,000 to one person who can do 4 jobs rather than $35,000 to 4 people who accomplish the same thing.