Official 2012 Presidential Debate Thread

**Papasito** · October-17-12, 02:51 PM

Equal Work = Equal Pay ?

White House?

President Obama’s top female White House aides earn more on average than their male counterparts, a reversal from the pattern in the George W. Bush administration, The Washington Times found in an analysis of 2011 pay records.
Top female employees on average earned nearly 4 percent more than top male employees under Mr. Obama

Obama pays a few women big bucks - Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz29aUDQvtr

Pelosi's Office?

The Daily Caller asked Pelosi about a report in the Washington Free Beacon that revealed that women working for Senate Democrats in 2011 had an average salary of $60,877, whereas male staffers made about $6,500 more.

http://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-gives-s...182037278.html
http://freebeacon.com/senate-dems-betray-lilly/

Practice what you preach

-----------------------------------------

Obama must think he's living in the 1920's.
Right now there are more women in College then there are men.
Time to crawl out from under that rock. Mr. Obama.

...Which may explain why about 70 percent of valedictorians today are girls. And it's not just about grades: It's about jobs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162...n-out-of-step/

**oladub** · October-17-12, 03:13 PM

bailey: No. "abject failure" would be continuing to lose 800k jobs a month. Abject failure would be increasing unemployment. Abject failure would be a "depression" or double dip recession.

Less than promised...ok. I'll give them that. But miles from "abject failure".

You still aren't acknowledging the other half of the equation. Every $1T of additional federal debt is equal to $3,200/American. If the federal debt increased form $10T to $16T under Obama, we each owe an additional $19,200 to the federal government. If Obama started with 7.8% unemployment and the unemployment is still that high, where the heck did my $19,200 go? I don't know but our kids are stuck with the bill. Assuming they are middle class, the middle class will have to pay for Obamanomics. That's why I call it an abject failure.

Apparently it's ok to force people to get insurance against their will at the State level, but not at the Federal?

Probably, according to the 10th Amendment, states have powers not delegated to the federal government unless forbidden.

I'd ask Europe how those austerity programs are working out before implementing them here.
and lets look at those Harding cuts:

Germany had an austerity program. The German prime minister who promoted German austerity was voted out of office but Germany is doing relatively well as a result. The countries that chose not to reign themselves in are now forced into austerity. An alternative is totalitarianism. Obama hasn't and Romney almost certainly won't seriously reign in military spending as Harding did. Always some new mission like sending some advisors into the Central Africa Republic, war planners into Jordan, or maybe attacking Iran.

I agree with you that Romney's numbers are incoherent. My partial solution is along the lines of the phrase, "What if they gave a war and nobody came." Every vote these guys get is an assent to their failed and preposterous promises. We have already lost to the corporations in this round so voting for a third party candidate is a step up from "none of the above".

Related: Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, was arrested yesterday [[begins at 2min10sec) and the story wasn't even on the news.

**Jimaz** · October-21-12, 03:42 PM

Here. Laugh your socks off.

Attachment 16235
"Eye Of The Sparrow" — A Bad Lip Reading of the First 2012 Presidential Debate

**firstandten** · October-21-12, 04:54 PM

Aw man ! the debate is on at the same time as Lions Bears MNF.

**oladub** · October-23-12, 12:22 AM

Intrade suggests that Obama edged Romney in the third debate. This poll shows the percentage of intrade gamblers who think that Obama will win the election.

**firstandten** · October-23-12, 06:50 AM

I think Obama did a little more than edge Mitt in the last debate, however the challenger is also in an impossible spot debating foreign policy with a sitting president. There's just too much information that he's not privy too.

My understanding was that Mitt's team basically wanted to make sure that he

1. Didn't make a gaffe and
2. Not sound like a warmonger

Thats why he agreed with almost everything the Prez has done on foriegn policy, except he tried to BS us with I agree but I would have done it sooner and harder. In some areas Mitt again went into his shape-shifter act.

Got to give it to Mitt when it comes to something he wants he has no core beliefs. Its like I'll say whatever it takes to make the sale. To his credit I don't think he could have done it any other way and make this race so close at this point of the election cycle.

**bailey** · October-23-12, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by firstandten

I think Obama did a little more than edge Mitt in the last debate, however the challenger is also in an impossible spot debating foreign policy with a sitting president. There's just too much information that he's not privy too.

My understanding was that Mitt's team basically wanted to make sure that he

1. Didn't make a gaffe and
2. Not sound like a warmonger

Thats why he agreed with almost everything the Prez has done on foriegn policy, except he tried to BS us with I agree but I would have done it sooner and harder. In some areas Mitt again went into his shape-shifter act.

Got to give it to Mitt when it comes to something he wants he has no core beliefs. Its like I'll say whatever it takes to make the sale. To his credit I don't think he could have done it any other way and make this race so close at this point of the election cycle.

I agree with you and many pundits when they say that Willard Romney is the most cynical, craven, say anything candidate to ever run for national office.... and I find it completely depressing that most everyone sees it [[even major swaths of Rs will say they don't trust him) yet, the race is close.

I understand why someone would vote republican... I just don't understand why any republican would vote for a man like Romney.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-23-12, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

I understand why someone would vote republican... I just don't understand why any republican would vote for a man like Romney.

I've been saying this for months, and I'll say it again: He's not Obama. Conservatives have one agenda this election, and one only, and that's to make Obama a one-term president. Nothing else at all matters to them at this moment. Not the economy, not national security, not the character of either candidate - all that matters is that they get a man they desperately hate out of the White House.

**oladub** · October-23-12, 10:24 AM

When Dr. Jill Stein, the Green Party presidential candidate, tried to attend the second presidential debate, she was arrested for "blocking" a wide sidewalk although the swarm of police around her took up much more space. She was taken to a black location where she was handcuffed to a chair for five hours before being released without a charge.

For those of you who aren't into staggering deficits, debts, incessant costly wars, torture, pat downs, the Patriot Act, the encroaching police state, the continuing attrition of civil liberties, Wall Street bailouts, SOPA/PIPA, NDAA, NAFTA, GATT, NDAA, TPP, and corporatism in general, there is a third party debate tonight hosted by Larry King. Unfortunately, the big networks chose not to carry differing points of view.

There are, however, up to three options for viewing the third party debate tonight at 9pm EST. "Tune in Tuesday, October 23 for a special two-hour 3rd party debate between 2012 presidential candidates Jill Stein [[Green Party), Gary Johnson [[Libertarian Party), Virgil Goode [[Constitution Party), and Rocky Anderson [[Justice Party). Unlike the “debates” between Romney and Obama, these candidates aren’t afraid to provide more than rehearsed talking points for answers. Moderated by Larry King, Free & Equal’s 3rd Party Presidential Debate is sure to feature some heated exchanges and a wide array of viewpoints!
Watch Tuesday, October 23 at 8:55pm ET/5:55pm PT on Link TV."

There should be an online view of the debate here:
http://freeandequal.org/updates/link-tv/

Al Jazeera TV, Link TV, and RT America are also broadcasting the debate.

also see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1988014.html

EDITED TO ADD: C-SPAN just announced that it will air the third party debate.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibr...Oct+23%2C+2012

**bailey** · October-23-12, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I've been saying this for months, and I'll say it again: He's not Obama. Conservatives have one agenda this election, and one only, and that's to make Obama a one-term president. Nothing else at all matters to them at this moment. Not the economy, not national security, not the character of either candidate - all that matters is that they get a man they desperately hate out of the White House.

Agreed and it's summed up very well here:

Mitt's entire debate strategy: What he just said, but from a white guy
—Bill Maher

And if you think that is just left wing hackery, this is from the leader of Teabagistan:

**Pam** · October-23-12, 12:32 PM

....

and I find it completely depressing that most everyone sees it [[even major swaths of Rs will say they don't trust him) yet, the race is close.

Well, the media claims it's close. They could be wrong. Polls could be off etc.

**firstandten** · October-23-12, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

....

Well, the media claims it's close. They could be wrong. Polls could be off etc.

Does anybody know if the polls are compensating for the lack of land lines and the increase in cell phones.

**firstandten** · October-23-12, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I agree with you and many pundits when they say that Willard Romney is the most cynical, craven, say anything candidate to ever run for national office.... and I find it completely depressing that most everyone sees it [[even major swaths of Rs will say they don't trust him) yet, the race is close.

I understand why someone would vote republican... I just don't understand why any republican would vote for a man like Romney.

Mitt has been running for president since he left the governor's office... and he was running for president when he was in the governors office so we are talking at least since 2006 or 2007. I understand Mitts wife said this is it, if we don't get in. What I am saying is there is an air of desperation with Mitt because he knows the window of this particular opportunity will close for him after this election cycle if he doesn't win

The Repubs I'm sure don't like him but they are acting like " the enemy of my enemy is my friend " crazyness because of the hate they have for Obama.
Frankly I feel it all boils down to white male privilege. That term is mostly applicable to how women feel about how white males perceive them. But it is a term that many blacks feel is a truism

I think many folks felt that Obama getting elected was an aberration in the first place due to the fact that the economy tanked and any Repub at the time was toxic and folks like John Edwards whom the Repubs could have lived with imploded.

So it has come down to Repubs supporting a guy they really don't like because it gives them the best chance to get that black guy out of the white house.

**oladub** · October-23-12, 10:16 PM

Just watched the third party debate. What can I say? The smell of fresh air after a prison break comes to mind. Sacred cows were destroyed. My wife and I didn't leave the room for 90 minutes. It felt like taking a bath after listening to the Obama and Romney garbage.

The candidates didn't all agree. It was free rolling from free college educations to legalizing marijuana to balancing the budget in 2013. or spending like crazy, but it was impassioned debate and poked a lot of holes in the Romney/Obama assumptions balloon.

C-Span posted the entire debate immediately!
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/ThirdPartyPresid
The debate stars at about the 6min mark.

**oladub** · October-26-12, 01:18 AM

The Free and Equal Elections Foundation today announced that Gary Johnson and Jill Stein will advance to the final third party Presidential debate on Tuesday, October 30th from 9:00 to 10:30 Eastern Time in Washington DC.
http://freeandequal.org/updates/winners-of-october-23-presidential-debate/

**oladub** · November-04-12, 08:13 PM

as posted at http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...btjXheEtTe5.99

Unlike at the Obama/Romney debates, no topics will be off limits. Corporatism, TSA pat downs, killing US citizens abroad, waging unconstitutional wars, growing commercial hemp, legalizing pot, the Fed, the virtues of socialism vs. capitalism can all be discussed.

Final Third-Party candidate debate on November 5

Air Time: Monday, November 5, 2012 at 9pm et / 8pm ct / 7pm mt / 6pm ptTV Channels: C-SPAN, RT America, Al Jazeera English Participants: Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson, Green Party candidate Jill Stein

**firstandten** · November-04-12, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

as posted at http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...btjXheEtTe5.99

Unlike at the Obama/Romney debates, no topics will be off limits. Corporatism, TSA pat downs, killing US citizens abroad, waging unconstitutional wars, growing commercial hemp, legalizing pot, the Fed, the virtues of socialism vs. capitalism can all be discussed.

Final Third-Party candidate debate on November 5

Air Time: Monday, November 5, 2012 at 9pm et / 8pm ct / 7pm mt / 6pm ptTV Channels: C-SPAN, RT America, Al Jazeera English Participants: Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson, Green Party candidate Jill Stein

Thank you I will make a point to watch !

**rb336** · November-04-12, 11:06 PM

after all the polls close, eh? Not much point. Might have voted for Rocky if he was on the MI ballot

**Papasito** · November-05-12, 05:07 PM

Rosanne Barr and Cindy Sheehan are on the ballot, so it's not too late if you're looking for an alternative.

___________________________________________
Obama Debating Himself?

Here's an interesting video from a website called "Words Matter".
This video is very compelling, of Barack Obama contradicting himself, titled
"Was Hillary Right About Obama?"

Website Here: http://wordsmatter2012.com/

It goes over immigration reform, top priority initiatives, and Hillary's accusations of Obama "Peddling False Hope" [[A claim Hillary made when running against him in 2008).

Words Matter 2012 was inspired by a speech...

Delivered by then-Candidate Obama in February 2008 in which he insisted that his words mattered and that it is our responsibility to hold our politicians accountable. This research project is devoted to doing just that. Our goal is to give voters a non-partisan and objective insight into what politicians promise when seeking support versus what is delivered after the votes are counted and the confetti swept away.

Words Matter 2012 will be the first in a series of such accountability projects by using the promises made by President Obama in 2008 as compared to what he has delivered thus far.
Next year Words Matter 2013 will continue the project for whoever prevails in November.