Mr. Moroun, please stop the lying

**Detroitdave** · September-17-12, 04:49 PM

As we draw closer to voting this fall we are bombarded with commercials on prop 6 .
It is soooooo one sided and just right out lies .
We are all pretty familiar with the bridge and the history with Mr Moroun.
If you've seen the commercials you'd think that "WE" are going to have to pay for this bridge. Anyone paying attention knows better , however with all the one sided press can there be a fair vote when only one side gets to flood the airwaves with their negative message that's not true?
How is it that we don't get a fair and true message from the other side?
I'm aware the state can't legally air commercials , but can someone [[with money) step in and make this fair.
Does this mean that people with money can flood the airwaves with just their views and get their way?
Just typing this I've seen that DAMN commercial 6 times !!!!!
WTF ! I mean come on !! In my opinion anyone flooding the airwaves this much clearly has to be worried that his greedy empire is threaten .
I mean the guy has a monopoly on the damn bridge and half the tunnel , how much more does the SOB want ?
In my opinion NO single person should own an international bridge.
Also this bridge has live way past it's life time. When it's time for Mr. Moroun to update or try to get a bridge I hope the state and the people remember how he is treating Detroit and Michigan and give him the same treatment !

Shollin · September-17-12, 04:56 PM

I like how they say our grand children will pay for this bridge. I'm a grand child from when the mackinaw bridge was built. How is that effecting me? I also like how they say it could pay for teachers and police as if state income taxes pays for those things. State income taxes pays for things like infrastructure, or you know, bridges.

**Detroitdave** · September-17-12, 05:16 PM

Also I was listening to NPR and Mr Marouns bridge gets Federal funds also !
What a hippocratic ! for the agents and other funds !

**Hermod** · September-17-12, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

As we draw closer to voting this fall we are bombarded with commercials on prop 6 .
It is soooooo one sided and just right out lies .
We are all pretty familiar with the bridge and the history with Mr Moroun.
If you've seen the commercials you'd think that "WE" are going to have to pay for this bridge. Anyone paying attention knows better , however with all the one sided press can there be a fair vote when only one side gets to flood the airwaves with their negative message that's not true?
How is it that we don't get a fair and true message from the other side?
I'm aware the state can't legally air commercials , but can someone [[with money) step in and make this fair.
Does this mean that people with money can flood the airwaves with just their views and get their way?
Just typing this I've seen that DAMN commercial 6 times !!!!!
WTF ! I mean come on !! In my opinion anyone flooding the airwaves this much clearly has to be worried that his greedy empire is threaten .
I mean the guy has a monopoly on the damn bridge and half the tunnel , how much more does the SOB want ?
In my opinion NO single person should own an international bridge.
Also this bridge has live way past it's life time. When it's time for Mr. Moroun to update or try to get a bridge I hope the state and the people remember how he is treating Detroit and Michigan and give him the same treatment !

Your rant isn't exactly 'fair and balanced". You only tell one side of the story and claim the other side is lying.

**Detroitdave** · September-17-12, 06:29 PM

How many commercials have you seen for the other side ?
and pretty much everyone on this blog knows the history of mr. maroun.
Please feel free to tell the other side of the story , it's a free country and I would love to hear it . What is the other side of the story? the people should decided or mr maroun wants his way ?
Seriously please feel free . I believe I am a fair person, so I'm open to hear :-)

**Hermod** · September-18-12, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

How many commercials have you seen for the other side ?
and pretty much everyone on this blog knows the history of mr. maroun.
Please feel free to tell the other side of the story , it's a free country and I would love to hear it . What is the other side of the story? the people should decided or mr maroun wants his way ?
Seriously please feel free . I believe I am a fair person, so I'm open to hear :-)

I didn't say that I disagreed with you. I said that your screed was not fair and balanced. Yours was simply an attack on the position of the other side.

"How is it that we don't get a fair and true message from the other side?"

You claim that their advertising is not "fair and true" but your rant is completely "fair and true".

Obviously, the people will decide on the issue between the two sides. Your problem is that Maroun's side has a larger bullhorn.

**Meddle** · September-18-12, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

Does this mean that people with money can flood the airwaves with just their views and get their way?

You answered your own question. Money. And the money-corrupted Supreme Court has permitted it.

In my opinion NO single person should own an international bridge.

I've said that for years. The U.S. and Canada should seize control of the Bridge.

**MrMister** · September-18-12, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Your rant isn't exactly 'fair and balanced". You only tell one side of the story and claim the other side is lying.

The other side is lying.

I actually truly get confused when I watch those commercials, because I have tried to stay abreast of the facts regarding the bridge[[s), and the "facts" that are used in those commercials are ludicrously blatant lies.

I'm all for a little political back and forth, but it makes me sad that its become completely acceptable to fabricate truths.

It does require some digging, but lots of pertinent info can be found here
http://www.partnershipborderstudy.com/

This biggest piece of misinformation is that somehow this will cost our great great great grandchildren both of their legs and one of their arms.
The Canadian government is fully funding the project, however many of the construction workers, and materials suppliers will be American.
The only thing the U.S government will be responsible for is the Plaza on the U.S. side.

**antongast** · September-18-12, 08:53 AM

Everyone's talking about Prop. 6, but Prop. 5 is also Moroun-funded, would do much broader and longer-lasting damage to Michiganders' ability to govern ourselves effectively, and has majority support in recent polls. I wish more people were mobilizing against it, because it seems like the effects would be pretty disastrous if it passed.

**Hermod** · September-18-12, 09:16 AM

Think of it this scenario:

Suppose there was no existing bridge and that this would be the first bridge across the river. Up until now, all river crossing was by passenger ferry, car ferry, and railroad ferry. There is a large and thriving industry owning and operating these ferries and they employ a large number of crew members all organized under a powerful union [[lets say the Teamsters).

Now the proposal is made to build this bridge.

Wouldn't you think the airwaves would be packed with advertising from the DR Ferry owner's Association and the Teamsters emphasizing the ongoing maintenance costs of the bridge even though Canada would pay for the construction?

Don't you think those two groups would be pushing ballot initiatives to block the construction?

Wouldn't they be trying to tie the thing up in the courts with environmental and navigation issues? "Ooooh what a danger to the striped river rat found only in the Detroit River." "What if an ore freighter rammed the bridge and totally blocked the river for months?"

A lot of you who hate Maroun today would be cheering on the Teamsters in that scenario.

**Oldpuck** · September-18-12, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Think of it this scenario:

Suppose there was no existing bridge and that this would be the first bridge across the river. Up until now, all river crossing was by passenger ferry, car ferry, and railroad ferry. There is a large and thriving industry owning and operating these ferries and they employ a large number of crew members all organized under a powerful union [[lets say the Teamsters).

Now the proposal is made to build this bridge.

Wouldn't you think the airwaves would be packed with advertising from the DR Ferry owner's Association and the Teamsters emphasizing the ongoing maintenance costs of the bridge even though Canada would pay for the construction?

Don't you think those two groups would be pushing ballot initiatives to block the construction?

Wouldn't they be trying to tie the thing up in the courts with environmental and navigation issues? "Ooooh what a danger to the striped river rat found only in the Detroit River." "What if an ore freighter rammed the bridge and totally blocked the river for months?"

A lot of you who hate Maroun today would be cheering on the Teamsters in that scenario.

I do hate Moroun today and I fully intend to hate him tomorrow. Thank you.

**Detroitdave** · September-18-12, 02:59 PM

Thanks MrMister and Hermod, it might seem like a rant , but this has been a big part of Detroit politics recently . I wont go into it too much further because this subject has been cover many,many times on this site .

The only reason I brought up the subject is Mr. Moroun keeps flooding the airwaves with his ads and it's pretty annoying .

Hermod you might haven gotten some push back from the Ferry company , but I doubt much from the Teamsters , I would think they would benefit from the bridge. It has been said the big 3 would benefit greatly from a second bridge.

I don't hate Mr.Moroun I feel those who have the means have a civic duty to [[a) make money , but also the civic responsibility to not intentionally hold and entire region back for their own selfish gains.[[b) Be a responsible business leader and not try to keep a monopoly . His intentions are and have been clear.

Mr. Moroun has a colorful history of being as business leader, we all know his past run ins with the state over I75 and the access to His bridge, he was put in jail over this issue. I'm not making this stuff up.

We all know the lack respect he has shown the people in southwest Detroit .
I don't want to beat a dead horse here. I just think the commercials are too much .
For one business man to hold one of states and this countries most important international crossing hostage for his own person gains is bit much .

There have been countless surveys done showing this is a good thing for the state, the prime minister of Canada was just on Craig Fahle's show , saying Mr. Moroun is being dishonest and misleading .
When people go to vote just remember the complete picture and make their own choice and not be influence by a staked deck .

OK enough of my rant ! :-) Have a great day ! :-)

**Hermod** · September-18-12, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

Hermod you might haven gotten some push back from the Ferry company , but I doubt much from the Teamsters , I would think they would benefit from the bridge. It has been said the big 3 would benefit greatly from a second bridge.

OK, in my scenario, lets say one of the Maritime Unions which would be thrown out of work by the new bridge.

The fact remains that anyone who is economically disadvantaged by a government course of action will do everything in his power to oppose it regardless of "the greater good".

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

I don't hate Mr.Moroun.

For what it is worth, Dave, I would never voluntarily enter into a business dealing with the man. My point is that his commercials are no more slanted or biased than the commercials and news columns in support of the bridge. His are just more prevalent.

**leapfrog** · September-18-12, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Your rant isn't exactly 'fair and balanced". You only tell one side of the story and claim the other side is lying.

Isn't a major difference that his "rant" is personal opinion shared on an Internet forum while Moroun's ad's are "political ads" - there should at least some truth in advertising.

**Hermod** · September-18-12, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by leapfrog

Isn't a major difference that his "rant" is personal opinion shared on an Internet forum while Moroun's ad's are "political ads" - there should at least some truth in advertising.

OK, two commercials:
1. Obama's policies have kept us from slipping into a deeper depression.
2. Obama's policies have kept us mired in this recession.

Which one is "truth in advertising" and which one is "lying"?

**leapfrog** · September-18-12, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

OK, two commercials:
1. Obama's policies have kept us from slipping into a deeper depression.
2. Obama's policies have kept us mired in this recession.

Which one is "truth in advertising" and which one is "lying"?

Now you are comparing two political ads, which is not what you were originally doing. Please recall that you compared the ads to the OP's post - they are simply not the same.

And to answer your question, example two is clearly the ad that is "lying"

**Bham1982** · September-18-12, 06:48 PM

While Moroun doesn't appear to be the greatest person out there, and obviously his ads are slanted, the essence of his message seems accurate to me, even if the motives are selfish.

His main contention is that the Governor is lying when he says the bridge is "free". The reality is that it will cost Michiganders hundreds of millions, or possibly more. This whole "Canada's paying for it" nonsense has to end, now.

We don't need a new bridge, IMO. We have four SE MI road crossings, none of them at capacity, and now we need to divert scarce resources to build a fifth, because folks don't like Moroun, and because Canada wants to move the bridge. Since when do Canadian politics influence Lansing votes?

**leapfrog** · September-18-12, 07:03 PM

I agree- I'm not convinced of the need for a new bridge either. My only point is that to compare an opinion posted on an Internet forum against a political ad is disingenuous.

Incidentally, our Governor has stated publicly many times that should this proposal pass, he doesn't believe this will stop the new bridge, despite the litigation we know will follow as a result.

**rb336** · September-18-12, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

His main contention is that the Governor is lying when he says the bridge is "free". The reality is that it will cost Michiganders hundreds of millions, or possibly more. This whole "Canada's paying for it" nonsense has to end, now.

have you looked at the business plan? It is being paid for by bonds that will be paid by tolls, bonds guaranteed by the Canadian government, not us. If you don't think we need a new bridge, you are being horribly myopic, for reasons explained at length in this forum numerous times.

We don't need a new bridge, IMO. We have four SE MI road crossings, none of them at capacity,

really? why is it every time I go by the Ambassador, it is literally bumper to bumper with trucks?

**Detroitdave** · September-18-12, 07:37 PM

The ambassador bridge has lived long past it's life , It's 83 years old !, we can't ride on that bridge forever , yes we do need an additional span.
if for nothing more than safety reasons, since 9/11.
God forbid anything happen to the ambassador bridge, what will happen.
and if we didn't need a 2nd span why is Mr Mauron so hell bent on building his own? Why is he spending 4.6 million this year alone to kill the 2nd span ?
Also building a second span will provide thousands of jobs which we sorely need , last time I checked ?
Here is a quick source
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....tches_poi.html
It's not prefect but it's the best offer we'er ever going to get .

**jerrytimes** · September-18-12, 08:13 PM

I'm amazed that a private individual [[Maroun) can stop an international bridge from being built.

**Hermod** · September-18-12, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

I'm amazed that a private individual [[Maroun) can stop an international bridge from being built.

Construction of all kinds of roads, bridges, canals, and dams gets stopped or delayed for years and years and years by activists.

Salt the ground with a few arrowheads and some bones and "ooooh,oooh, ooooh, it is a sacred Indian burial ground"

**Richard** · September-18-12, 08:48 PM

The bridge is not something dropped in place it is the 4 billion dollars that is being spent not covered that our grandchildern will be paying for.

But I guess it is like everything else , do not ask questions just trust us because we are the gov and we know what is best for you.

**Richard** · September-18-12, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I've said that for years. The U.S. and Canada should seize control of the Bridge.

I am with you the gov should have the power to take any buisness just like Chavez that way there would be no evil buisness owners just us workers putting it all in one pile to share.Then we could all live in state controlled housing like good little subjects.

Shollin · September-18-12, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

The bridge is not something dropped in place it is the 4 billion dollars that is being spent not covered that our grandchildern will be paying for.

But I guess it is like everything else , do not ask questions just trust us because we are the gov and we know what is best for you.

I'm a grand child from when the Mackinaw Bridge was built. Apparently I'm still paying for it. How is it effecting me?