DTE Protests around Detroit

**MaxSpeed** · September-21-12, 02:05 PM

1.DTE should pay its fair share of taxws. In 2011 , DTE posted a $720 million profit, which was a 13% increase from the previous year. DTE actually received a tax refund between 2009-2011 . that's a negative 6% tax rate !
2.DTE needs to stop the shut offs. DTE has shut-off service to over 100.000 Detroit families living in poverty over the last two years, despite all their profits.
3. DTE has donated to vote suppressor. DTE gave campaign money to Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson. Johnson,despite the governor's veto of the Voter Registration Act,has decided to include citizenship questions on ballots,which are intimidating and can suppress voting."

One of the things these people are protesting about is shutt off of their gas/electric for not paying bills... Really? I'm not rich why should I and everybody else be paying for the "people in poverty"....

**MaxSpeed** · September-21-12, 02:06 PM

1.DTE should pay its fair share of taxws. In 2011 , DTE posted a $720 million profit, which was a 13% increase from the previous year. DTE actually received a tax refund between 2009-2011 . that's a negative 6% tax rate !
2.DTE needs to stop the shut offs. DTE has shut-off service to over 100.000 Detroit families living in poverty over the last two years, despite all their profits.
3. DTE has donated to vote suppressor. DTE gave campaign money to Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson. Johnson,despite the governor's veto of the Voter Registration Act,has decided to include citizenship questions on ballots,which are intimidating and can suppress voting."

One of the things these people are protesting about is shutt off of their gas/electric for not paying bills... Really? I'm not rich why should I and everybody else be paying for the "people in poverty"....

**Islandman** · September-21-12, 02:34 PM

I wish I had time to take off of my non-union job to go protest.

**Jimaz** · September-21-12, 02:59 PM

GoodJobsNow.org

**cman710** · September-21-12, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by MaxSpeed

1.DTE should pay its fair share of taxws. In 2011 , DTE posted a $720 million profit, which was a 13% increase from the previous year. DTE actually received a tax refund between 2009-2011 . that's a negative 6% tax rate !

Did DTE pay taxes from 2009-2011? How much? I have to imagine they paid some taxes. If they are indeed paying taxes and received a refund, that is because they paid more than they had to pay under law and their tax rate was not negative 6%.

**Hermod** · September-21-12, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

Did DTE pay taxes from 2009-2011? How much? I have to imagine they paid some taxes. If they are indeed paying taxes and received a refund, that is because they paid more than they had to pay under law and their tax rate was not negative 6%.

According to the Value Line stock reports DTE had effective tax rates of: 2006: 23.9% 2007: 25.1% 2008: 34.9% 2009: 31.6% 2010: 32.7% 2011: 35.9% 2012: 35.0% [[forecast) Gross Sales in 2011 were $8,897,000,000 Net Profit in 2011 was: $624,000,000 Profits were 7% of sales. These figures don't seem to fit the narrative that the protesters are pitching.

**leapfrog** · September-21-12, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

According to the Value Line stock reports DTE had effective tax rates of: 2006: 23.9% 2007: 25.1% 2008: 34.9% 2009: 31.6% 2010: 32.7% 2011: 35.9% 2012: 35.0% [[forecast) Gross Sales in 2011 were $8,897,000,000 Net Profit in 2011 was: $624,000,000 Profits were 7% of sales. These figures don't seem to fit the narrative that the protesters are pitching.

True, but why let figures get in the way of a good rant?

**cman710** · September-21-12, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

According to the Value Line stock reports DTE had effective tax rates of: 2006: 23.9% 2007: 25.1% 2008: 34.9% 2009: 31.6% 2010: 32.7% 2011: 35.9% 2012: 35.0% [[forecast) Gross Sales in 2011 were $8,897,000,000 Net Profit in 2011 was: $624,000,000 Profits were 7% of sales. These figures don't seem to fit the narrative that the protesters are pitching.

Thanks for the information. As I suspected, DET probably just overpaid their taxes for 2009 through 2011 and thus received a refund.

Whether DTE should get government subsidies remains a whole other question, but it sounds like DTE pays their fair share of taxes on an overall basis.

**Detroitnerd** · September-21-12, 04:28 PM

This is why the four big tax avoidance companies exist: To ensure that companies pay as little as possible in taxes.

Taxes are for the little people.

Shollin · September-21-12, 04:36 PM

Why is there always protest for people who don't pay their bills?

**scottn55** · September-21-12, 04:46 PM

While I neither agree nor disagree with the "citizenship question" I do wonder... How exactly is inquiring about somebody's citizenship "indimidating" and how does this "suppress voting"? Being a citizen of the United States is a prerequisite to voting so it seems like an appropriate question to ask. Perhaps somebody can enlighten me on that one...

**Hermod** · September-21-12, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

This is why the four big tax avoidance companies exist: To ensure that companies pay as little as possible in taxes.

Taxes are for the little people.

Everybody doing their taxes tries to pay as little as possible within the law.

Here is a little coincidence for you:

COSTCO [[corporate leftist saint) earned $3.30 a share in 2011 and had a tax rate of 35.3%.

DTE [[evil corporate exploiter) earned $3.67 a share in 2011 and had a tax rate of 35.9%.

If DTE should be forced to give away free electricity, shouldn't Costco be required to give away free food?

**MaxSpeed** · September-21-12, 05:25 PM

"If DTE should be forced to give away free electricity, shouldn't Costco be required to give away free food?"
Good point

**Hermod** · September-21-12, 05:52 PM

Apple Inc:

2011 Sales were $108,249,000,000 WITH Net Profits of $25,922,000,000 which is a profit margin of 23.9 per cent.

Apple's tax rate in 2011 was only 24.2 per cent!!!

Where the hell is my free I-Phone 5???

**mwilbert** · September-21-12, 09:27 PM

Utilities generally pay quite a bit of tax. DTE was part of an [[apparently legal) energy tax credit scam 5-10 years ago where they were able to get an advanced fuels credit by spraying some kind of chemical on coal and claiming this amounted to a transformation of the coal into a new fuel, but in general slow-growing utilities like DTE don't have enough depreciation to offset their income.

If society wants to subsidize some people's electricity, fine, but I don't see why it should be DTE's responsibility.

**Bad Brains** · September-22-12, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

If DTE should be forced to give away free electricity, shouldn't Costco be required to give away free food?

As a customer, if I want a different company to provide electricity, who can I call to change providers?

**Hermod** · September-22-12, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

As a customer, if I want a different company to provide electricity, who can I call to change providers?

What part of "regulated utility company" do you not understand?

What concerns me about utility companies [[electricity, natural gas, and in some places water) is the recent trend of form holding companies with the regulated business being a subsidiary and another subsidiary being an unregulated company. The unregulated company then sells to the regulated company where these "costs" can be passed through.

State regulation authorities need to really take a close look at these practices as I can foresee a lot of opportunities for abuse.

**Goose** · September-22-12, 07:24 AM

if people are "intimidated" by a simple "are you a United States citizen" question on their ballot application then I fear they will be completly lost while trying to understand the actual ballot and probably should refrain from voting in general...... but it's your right - so by all means go fill in the dot for the idiot that promised you the most crap based on your limited to no research on issues and your kindergarden level understanding of the issues..... what a great society we have!!!!

**JBMcB** · September-22-12, 09:56 AM

Another name for "tax loophole" is "incentive." DTE spends money on renewable energy, they get a tax credit. DTE spends money on updating coal-fired power plants, they get a tax credit. DTE offers discounted rates to poor people, they get a tax credit.

If you want DTE to pay the full 40% corporate tax rate, then you need to end those programs.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-22-12, 10:07 AM

1) DTE's rates are reasonable. Go to Toledo and ask.

2) DTE is regulated by the PSC. Not perfect. But reasonable control on profitability

3) Who cares if they're taxed. So tax them, and then have your rates increased? What's the sense in that.

The protesters should spend their time raising money to pay the utility bills of those who are poor.

I would, however, suggest we might provide a basic amount of Kwh per household FREE -- which would of course require an increase in the rate for the remainder. Also a 'demand' rate, made easier by Smart Meters could be used to make larger consumers pay their appropriate share.

But fighting for DTE to give away power is a fools errand.

**leapfrog** · September-22-12, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

if people are "intimidated" by a simple "are you a United States citizen" question on their ballot application then I fear they will be completly lost while trying to understand the actual ballot and probably should refrain from voting in general...... but it's your right - so by all means go fill in the dot for the idiot that promised you the most crap based on your limited to no research on issues and your kindergarden level understanding of the issues..... what a great society we have!!!!

Well thankfully we have the likes of you to keep us all informed on just how uninformed we are

**redvetred** · September-23-12, 08:42 AM

DTE is not a charity which doles out money or gives away free electric power. Someone has to pay for it - the rate payers. If you want to reduce rates get rid of mandated renewable energy programs and go with the cheapest energy sources - nuclear, coal or natural gas only. Stopping theft will also reduce customer costs.