Belle Isle and Central Park

**renf** · September-19-12, 12:51 PM

The front page of today's NY Times features a picture of beautiful Central Park above the fold. Today's Motown papers features stories about Common Council's quick reject of state investments in Belle Isle. Frederick Law Olmsted designed both parks. Some day Belle Isle could be the rival of Central Park. I infer Common Council would like to delay that day.

**Hamtragedy** · September-19-12, 11:15 PM

Central Park's annual budget is around $48M. The entire City of Detroit Department of Parks and Recreation budget is $12M, which includes all the parks [[grass cutting), rec. center operating costs and payroll, and Belle Isle.

The state has not given any figures on what they would spend if the DNR were to take it over, but I am pretty confident they would do more than the COD has done in the past two-three decades [[the term of the lease) and would spend more annually on Belle Isle improvements and maintenance. Then again, we know what happens when you assume, but I'm pretty sure it'd be way better than what we're getting now.

Of course, none of the money saved on BI would be spread among the rest of the Department of Parks and Rec, and I can all but guarantee that.

**Kathleen** · September-20-12, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by renf

Some day Belle Isle could be the rival of Central Park.

I would say that the day has long past when the two parks were rivals. The Belle Isle of 100 years ago was an amazing place...with new buildings...new roads...the fountain...canoes aplenty...a clean beach...a new zoo...and the island was filled with families and couples and friends enjoying the scenery and the music and just being there.

But the two cities have treated their parks differently through the years. Today Central Park is nice, but not what it once was. Belle Isle has farther to go to return to its original bustling beautiful self. Hopefully it will happen in the near future.

**Wheels** · September-20-12, 08:52 AM

You only have to go back to the 70s to remember Central Park as a haven for muggers. Belle Isle can come back to a much better place also!

**rjlj** · September-20-12, 10:46 AM

Agreed. People too easily accept what is rather than what can be.

Here are pictures of New York Central Park when it was in shambles and what it looks like today.

http://www.centralparksunsettours.co...ore-and-after/

Originally Posted by Wheels

You only have to go back to the 70s to remember Central Park as a haven for muggers. Belle Isle can come back to a much better place also!

**Jason** · September-20-12, 11:06 AM

I think saying Belle Isle could be as successful as Central Park is like saying that Detroit could be as successful as New York City.

Belle Isle could become a great park that's one of the best in the country, but it will never be able to beat Central Park. I think Belle Isle's isolated location alone guarantees that.

Shollin · September-20-12, 11:23 AM

I think Belle Isle's location helps it. It's unique that not many other cities have an island park. River Rouge Park is larger than Central Park and that seems to be forgotten.

**Ray1936** · September-20-12, 11:31 AM

Ah, the Belle Isle of a century ago. How I wish I could visit it again....then!

http://www.shorpy.com/node/11443?size=_original#caption

**Kathleen** · September-20-12, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Ah, the Belle Isle of a century ago. How I wish I could visit it again....then!

I wonder if my grandfather or any of his cousins are lurking anywhere in this photo!!!

**EastsideAl** · September-20-12, 12:19 PM

A big part of the difference between the 2 parks is that Central Park remained surrounded by wealth on 3 sides. And that, through the vehicle of the Conservancy, turned out to be its salvation.

There was resistance originally on the part of many of the people who live around Central Park to spending their money on something they saw as a lost cause, and a park primarily patronized by people unlike them. But through the efforts of some well-connected driving forces, like Betsy Barlow Rogers, the people of the surrounding neighborhoods [[and the city administration) were brought to see that it was in their best interests to cooperate in saving and improving the park.

By contrast, back when I briefly worked with the Friends of Belle Isle in the '80s, we made a concerted effort to do much the same sort of fund-raising and organization among the Detroit area's movers and shakers - with a concentration, of course, on nearby Grosse Pointe. Although a few were quite helpful, our efforts were generally met with responses ranging from bemused indifference to outright hostility and racial epithets. It was one of those moments when you realized just how sharp, deep, hostile, and abiding the racial divide around here is.

I wonder if the people working with the new Belle Isle Conservancy do any better with those same folks today, or if they even try anymore?

**Bham1982** · September-20-12, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

There was resistance originally on the part of many of the people who live around Central Park to spending their money on something they saw as a lost cause, and a park primarily patronized by people unlike them.

I know that Central Park was in much worse shape in the 70's and 80's, but I find it hard to believe that the park was "primarily patronized by people unlike them".

The neigborhoods bordering Central Park have been among NYC's wealthiest for more than a century, and the Park has always had heavy use from its immediate neighbors.

Central Park nowadays has a very, very affluent demographic. It feels very curated and posh.

I don't doubt it was less fancy in the lean years back then, but probably was still mostly local folks with money. The Kennedy kids and the like always talk about their childhoods in and around the park during the 70's.

**Wheels** · September-20-12, 01:31 PM

Did he mention he was mugged?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5832,3814944

**EastsideAl** · September-20-12, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I know that Central Park was in much worse shape in the 70's and 80's, but I find it hard to believe that the park was "primarily patronized by people unlike them".

It may or may not have been true, but it was the perception of many, which was a hindrance early on to fund-raising for improving the park. Barlow Ross, among others, has written about this, and there's a scene of a fund-raiser in Frederick Wiseman's Central Park documentary that alludes to this problem.

In any event, I can tell you first-hand that it was a significant issue in fund raising for Belle Isle in the '80s.

**Bham1982** · September-20-12, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Did he mention he was mugged?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5832,3814944

Well, ok, NYC had much higher crime than today back in the 70's, but I'm talking about the clientele.

I don't think there's ever been a period where Central Park wasn't being used by the rich, particularly the immediate neighbors.

**rjlj** · September-20-12, 02:56 PM

What is your basis for your commments? Did you live in NYC in the 70's and 80's and track the people who came to the park or are you making assumptions based on what you read about the Kennedy kids?

How can you say that the park was visited by "mostly local folks with money." What a stupid assumption to make for an area of 8 million people

I hate to reference wiki but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Well, ok, NYC had much higher crime than today back in the 70's, but I'm talking about the clientele.

I don't think there's ever been a period where Central Park wasn't being used by the rich, particularly the immediate neighbors.

**Bham1982** · September-20-12, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

How can you say that the park was visited by "mostly local folks with money." What a stupid assumption to make for an area of 8 million people

Central Park is surrounded by folks with money. This was also true in the 70's.

I find it very odd that you find it "stupid" that the richest neighborhood in the country would have parks utilized, at least in part, by rich people.

Last I checked, parks tend to be utilized by people in close proximity to those parks. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that hordes of New Jerseyans or whomever are the primary users of Central Park.

The larger point is that Belle Isle is different. It has always had a different constituency.

**rb336** · September-20-12, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that hordes of New Jerseyans or whomever are the primary users of Central Park.

Do you know anything about New York? Yes, the locals use it, but it is a major tourist draw, and was "even" in the 70s and 80s. And yes, lots of bridge and tunnel people use it, especially on the weekend

**stasu1213** · September-20-12, 05:32 PM

I think that there is a park in Florida that is almost similar to Belle Isle. It is a small island that is accesible by bridge just as Belle Isle is.

**Wheels** · September-20-12, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I think that there is a park in Florida that is almost similar to Belle Isle. It is a small island that is accesible by bridge just as Belle Isle is.

LMFAO You just described about 1000 or more parks in Florida!

**stasu1213** · September-20-12, 05:55 PM

Central Park could be dropped on the eastside of Detroit in the area that the mayor want to make a tree park. E Vernor east of Cadillac to St Jean and going south to Jefferson is mostly barren saving a couple of blocks