Federal cops pull over car on Bagley. Why?

**Lowell** · September-15-12, 12:24 PM

I watched the roof lights of a white squad care begin to flash as it turned onto Bagley from Grand Circus Park. A Mercedes pulled over near me and the officers got out, not Detroit Police but green-uniformed federal Border Patrol agents.

I have seen them loitering along the river front, riding bikes and in other locations, but pulling over a car in the middle of town? That was a first.

I made some calls and finally connected with an Agent Ramer, their PR officer. What was the jurisdiction of the officers, what could they stop someone for, and how far from the border could they operate, I asked.

His reply in essence was they can stop anyone anywhere, anytime. The following is the paraphrased conversation I had.

What is law on this, I asked.

Him: Section 287 of Immigration and Nationality Act allows them to do what they wish if they think there is ‘reasonable’ threat to public safety and within a ‘reasonable’ distance of the border.

Is failing to signal a lane change a reasonable threat to public safety, I asked.

Him: I can’t speak to a specific situation but the law allows them to act if they consider it a reasonable threat to public safety.

What is a reasonable distance from the border 5 miles? 2000 miles?

Him: I can't speak to the situation, but if they feel it is a reasonable distance they can take action.

So there is no set distance?

Him: Section 287 says a reasonable distance.

Everything is so reasonable!

Good, bad or ugly?

**eastland** · September-15-12, 12:48 PM

Definitely good. Any increased law enforcement presence from local, state and federal agencies is welcomed.

**mauser** · September-15-12, 12:52 PM

Goon Squad. Bad.

**rb336** · September-15-12, 01:18 PM

I saw a map where virtually the entire state is marked as within the "reasonable distance" for the border patrol. Even New Buffalo and Marquette

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 01:18 PM

Is failing to signal a lane change a reasonable threat to public safety, I asked.

POs will use anything they can if they want to stop you for any reason. If they think you have contraband in your trunk, they won't seek a warrant if they can 'catch' you in some kind of traffic violation. If they can't come up with anything else, they'll invent a reason -- like swerving or a bad turn or they thought they saw you flick something out the window.

**Detroitnerd** · September-15-12, 01:23 PM

I think I remember somebody telling me that their jurisdiction is within 100 miles of any waterways that connect to an international border. So, yeah, pretty much anywhere outside Casper, Wyo., by that definition.

**Jimaz** · September-15-12, 01:30 PM

Other than if we were at war with Canada or something else of that magnitude, this shouldn't be allowed in the USA.

At least they didn't confiscate your camera.

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

At least they didn't confiscate your camera.

Yeah, I was just thinking that. Wondering why they didn't slam him to the ground, beat the crap out of him, take his phone and delete the pictures.

**Ray1936** · September-15-12, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Yeah, I was just thinking that. Wondering why they didn't slam him to the ground, beat the crap out of him, take his phone and delete the pictures.

Yeah, that's what I used to do when I was on the job.

You guys are all commenting on a specific event of which you have no knowledge whatsoever.

**jiminnm** · September-15-12, 02:23 PM

ICE has drug and immigration checkpoints on all [[I think) highways in southern NM. The one on northbound I-25, about 20-25 miles north of El Paso, requires all traffic to be routed through the checkpoint.

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 02:25 PM

Ray, there are dozens of stories in recent weeks about Cops all over the country doing just that. It's becoming a wide trend.

It isn't the same as it was in your day.

Just one story, but this page links to many others: https://knightcenter.utexas.edu/blog...-photographing

**detroitsgwenivere** · September-15-12, 02:26 PM

I've had a few run ins with border patrol, at the riverfront and in my neighborhood. Once when hanging out late night at the riverfront by Fox Creek, they approached my car head on at a high rate of speed, passed me and then sped into a 180 like they do in car commercials. They shone this stadium quality light at my car while they ran my plate. Definitely intimidated at that point, we figured there was no way out so we just continued to consume our alcoholic beverages

and prayed we would finish them before the officers made it to our windows. They were back there for about 10 min., and then they just took off. Not mad at em if all their stops ended like that.

100 miles inland from any border or its waterway is the rule. Which means pretty much all of Michigan if you look at it on a map.

**mikefmich** · September-15-12, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I think I remember somebody telling me that their jurisdiction is within 100 miles of any waterways that connect to an international border. So, yeah, pretty much anywhere outside Casper, Wyo., by that definition.

I thought it was 50? But you could be right. Another little gem, they are VERY free to do searches when they invoke that 50-100 mile law BS.

**Detroitnerd** · September-15-12, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Yeah, that's what I used to do when I was on the job.

You guys are all commenting on a specific event of which you have no knowledge whatsoever.

Your post testify to a stellar character, Ray. I think all of us here number you among the good guys.

Sadly, judging by widespread reports of police brutality and total lack of accountabiligy, police have changed a lot since your day. Militarized, heavily armed, unfamiliar with the people they're "policing," today's cops resemble a occupying army more than a public safety force.

The days of "Sam the neighborhood cop" are over, it seems.

**detroitsgwenivere** · September-15-12, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

ICE has drug and immigration checkpoints on all [[I think) highways in southern NM. The one on northbound I-25, about 20-25 miles north of El Paso, requires all traffic to be routed through the checkpoint.

Fuck ICE. One of their black SUV driving dbags almost killed me back in '09. While doing full speed, they attempted a cannonball run going northbound across Vernor in SW and slammed into the back of my Caddy, hit two other parked cars, and kept going. When DPD showed up to take the report [[a miracle I know), upon hearing I was hit by a fed, the officer refused to take the report and said I had to take it up at headquarters, where I was told that I had no recourse, that federal vehicles are exempt from any liability, and that's what my having insurance is for!!! I was absolutely livid. I bought that car a week and a half before and it wasn't even titled in my name yet. It cost me thousands of dollars to repair the damage.

Like I said, Fuck ICE.

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 02:42 PM

If they want to search your car, they WILL search your car. If they ask, and you say No, some will consider that probable cause to impound the car and get a search warrant. Others will call for a K9 and keep you standing beside the road until one arrives, hoping you'll get annoyed enough to give consent.

If you still don't, when the dog arrives, there is a good chance it will 'hit' on almost every car in one way or another. They will then use that as grounds to conduct the search against your will.

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 02:45 PM

We've got a dog out here in Podunkville that isn't even properly certified. That doesn't keep GI Joe Deputy from walking it around cars to see if it hits on anything.

**Goose** · September-15-12, 02:47 PM

if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, have you papers in order and present them when asked....

once the new rail system is in place they will use the box cars to ship undesirables out to the Pontiac labor camps....

**Motor City Sam** · September-15-12, 03:05 PM

I'm glad when I see them on the riverfront and I have no problem seeing them elsewhere in the City. The last complaint I would have about Detroit is "too much law enforcement presence".

**Meddle** · September-15-12, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

have you papers in order and present them when asked....

Your Papers NOW!! You WILL show me your papers!!

If you do not show me your papers, you may be shot!

**Motor City Sam** · September-15-12, 03:15 PM

I agree with Ray. There is some serious "jumping to conclusions" in this thread.

And do people actually think that police brutality and misconduct is more prevalent these days than it was in the past, even with dashboard cams, camera phones, consent decrees, and much more diversified departments, etc.? My father, a 75 year old Black man who was born in Tennessee and raised in Detroit, would strongly disagree with that thought.

**Jimaz** · September-15-12, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

ICE has drug and immigration checkpoints on all [[I think) highways in southern NM. The one on northbound I-25, about 20-25 miles north of El Paso, requires all traffic to be routed through the checkpoint.

I was stopped on I-10 near Juárez, Mexico a few years ago. I-10 is only 200 yards from the border there. The cop was armed and alone. He was so huge that he didn't need any help. He just looked at me and waved me on. I was alone in a Mustang GT.

**cla1945** · September-15-12, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Your post testify to a stellar character, Ray. I think all of us here number you among the good guys.

Sadly, judging by widespread reports of police brutality and total lack of accountabiligy, police have changed a lot since your day. Militarized, heavily armed, unfamiliar with the people they're "policing," today's cops resemble a occupying army more than a public safety force.

The days of "Sam the neighborhood cop" are over, it seems.

Sadly, judging by the widespread reports of car jackings, muggings, murders, rapes, kidnapping and total lack of accountability, crooks have changed a lot since Rays day. Militarized, heavily armed, unfamiliar with the people they are targeting, today's thugs resemble a occupying army more than a police force does and should!

**softailrider** · September-15-12, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, have you papers in order and present them when asked....

once the new rail system is in place they will use the box cars to ship undesirables out to the Pontiac labor camps....

Will they have classical music playing while the undesirables board the trains?

**Detroitnerd** · September-15-12, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

Sadly, judging by the widespread reports of car jackings, muggings, murders, rapes, kidnapping and total lack of accountability, crooks have changed a lot since Rays day. Militarized, heavily armed, unfamiliar with the people they are targeting, today's thugs resemble a occupying army more than a police force does and should!

But, in actuality, crime rates have been steadily dropping since the 1970s.