How to sell public transit to the masses

**ever_helpful** · September-13-12, 07:53 PM

A Danish TV commercial from Midttrafik. The idea behind the campaign by Danish agency M2Film was to make public transportation more attractive, fun and exciting.

**313WX** · September-13-12, 07:57 PM

Improve its speed and they will come.

**Crumbled_pavement** · September-14-12, 05:14 AM

I don't think it's possible to sell mass transit to this region. This region is fiercely independent and would have a conniption at the idea of sharing [[i.e.: socialized) transportion needs. We demand that any worthwhile person would be able to get around on their own and not need public funds to be able to get around. That isn't changing in our lifetimes, maybe never.

**DetroitPlanner** · September-14-12, 08:02 AM

I liked that one so much I sent it to the boss.

**rb336** · September-14-12, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I don't think it's possible to sell mass transit to this region. This region is fiercely independent and would have a conniption at the idea of sharing [[i.e.: socialized) transportion needs. We demand that any worthwhile person would be able to get around on their own and not need public funds to be able to get around. That isn't changing in our lifetimes, maybe never.

you're wrong on so many levels it isn't funny. when you make a generalization like that, it only takes one bit of factual information to refute:

When the Ilitches did their experiment with trains running to the tiger games, they sold out - quickly - and they weren't cheap. Clearly there is a desire for rail transit here, it just has to go to the right places

**Crumbled_pavement** · September-14-12, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

you're wrong on so many levels it isn't funny. when you make a generalization like that, it only takes one bit of factual information to refute:

When the Ilitches did their experiment with trains running to the tiger games, they sold out - quickly - and they weren't cheap. Clearly there is a desire for rail transit here, it just has to go to the right places

Okay, let me know in the year 3015 when mass transit is actually up and running in Metro Detroit. That is, if I'm still alive in that day and age....

**DetroitPlanner** · September-14-12, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

you're wrong on so many levels it isn't funny. when you make a generalization like that, it only takes one bit of factual information to refute:

When the Ilitches did their experiment with trains running to the tiger games, they sold out - quickly - and they weren't cheap. Clearly there is a desire for rail transit here, it just has to go to the right places

If this was such a success why was it never repeated? You infer that the trains made money. If there was money to be made then why did it stop?

**Goose** · September-14-12, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

you're wrong on so many levels it isn't funny. when you make a generalization like that, it only takes one bit of factual information to refute:

When the Ilitches did their experiment with trains running to the tiger games, they sold out - quickly - and they weren't cheap. Clearly there is a desire for rail transit here, it just has to go to the right places

it was white guys from the oakland suburbs going to a tiger game on four instances [[novelty) .... not a daily commuter heading downtown to work

HUGE difference....

**Hypestyles** · September-14-12, 12:34 PM

I see it less as "independence" than "cultural selfishness".. but either way, no expanded transit anytime soon..

**rb336** · September-14-12, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

If this was such a success why was it never repeated? You infer that the trains made money. If there was money to be made then why did it stop?

Ever heard of the M1 rail plan? yes, it needs to extend to Pontiac. Putting a system into place takes a lot of time. The trains to tiger games was not a practical daily commute issue - too expensive

**Wheels** · September-14-12, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Ever heard of the M1 rail plan? yes, it needs to extend to Pontiac. Putting a system into place takes a lot of time. The trains to tiger games was not a practical daily commute issue - too expensive

The Train Nazi has spoken! "No Train For You"!

**poobert** · September-14-12, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

I see it less as "independence" than "cultural selfishness".. but either way, no expanded transit anytime soon..

Yep. It's 2012 and we have nothing resembling region transit even in the pipeline. I've decided I'm not really interested in living such a place any more than I'd be interested in living in a place without indoor plumbing. It isn't 1965 anymore and that split-level ranch in Warren just isn't enough to keep people here.

**p69rrh51** · September-14-12, 01:42 PM

Many are not old enough to remember when the commuter train ran from Birmingham to Downtown. It was quite popular but suffered from underfunding. I agree with 313WX make it efficient and they will come. But then there needs to be jobs to go to for any system to work.

**DetroitPlanner** · September-14-12, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Ever heard of the M1 rail plan? yes, it needs to extend to Pontiac. Putting a system into place takes a lot of time. The trains to tiger games was not a practical daily commute issue - too expensive

M-1 was never meant to extend anywhere past the Boulevard. It could not be used for regional rail, only short local trips.

**leapfrog** · September-14-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Yep. It's 2012 and we have nothing resembling region transit even in the pipeline. I've decided I'm not really interested in living such a place any more than I'd be interested in living in a place without indoor plumbing. It isn't 1965 anymore and that split-level ranch in Warren just isn't enough to keep people here.

Poobert, you've mentioned in several threads your intention/desire to move. I think you were considering Chicago at one point in time. Are you seriously considering the move, or are you "blowing off steam"? I'm curious because while I don't always agree with your comments, I do enjoy reading them and they often give me something to think about [[I was a lurker long before I joined).

It would be a loss to the area if you actually did relocate.

**rb336** · September-14-12, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

M-1 was never meant to extend anywhere past the Boulevard. It could not be used for regional rail, only short local trips.

Did you read where I said "it needs to be extended to Pontiac"? At one point it was going to connect to a system up Woodward to 8 Mile. Regardless, M! is a start and the people directly involved with it I've heard have all said that they view it as a pilot project

**poobert** · September-14-12, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by leapfrog

Poobert, you've mentioned in several threads your intention/desire to move. I think you were considering Chicago at one point in time. Are you seriously considering the move, or are you "blowing off steam"? I'm curious because while I don't always agree with your comments, I do enjoy reading them and they often give me something to think about [[I was a lurker long before I joined).

It would be a loss to the area if you actually did relocate.

That's very nice of you to say, thanks.

To answer your question, I do have every intention of relocation. I own my home and took the 1st time homebuyer tax credit so I still have to stick around for a while. I'm not underwater and stand to walk away from the table with some money as it is, but I'd like to put more equity into it as well. I also have a good job and enjoy my home and neighborhood but don't intend to stay in any of those forever. The timetable is just a couple more years so I'll have a good deal of money to start my new life; I don't see much changing for the better around here in that timeframe, sadly.

**hudkina** · September-14-12, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I don't think it's possible to sell mass transit to this region. This region is fiercely independent and would have a conniption at the idea of sharing [[i.e.: socialized) transportion needs. We demand that any worthwhile person would be able to get around on their own and not need public funds to be able to get around. That isn't changing in our lifetimes, maybe never.

The people of this region are far more progressive than many think. We already have a regionally-funded park system, a regionally-funded art museum, a regionally-funded zoo, and we may get a regionally-funded transit authority very soon.

**professorscott** · September-14-12, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by hudkina

we may get a regionally-funded transit authority very soon.

Amen. We almost did this year. Talk to your State Senator and State Rep about this. [[I did, not that it helped.)

The Gov wants it and a lot of the legislature is on board but not enough of the legislature. If you think this is important, as I do, talk to your state peeps.

By the way to the person who made the comment about indoor plumbing - amen! This situation makes us an absolute laughing stock among the developed parts of the world, and is absolutely a huge contributor to our economic failures.

**rb336** · September-14-12, 06:50 PM

It is also a big reason all your kids are moving to chicago

**Goose** · September-14-12, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Amen. We almost did this year. Talk to your State Senator and State Rep about this. [[I did, not that it helped.)

The Gov wants it and a lot of the legislature is on board but not enough of the legislature. If you think this is important, as I do, talk to your state peeps.

By the way to the person who made the comment about indoor plumbing - amen! This situation makes us an absolute laughing stock among the developed parts of the world, and is absolutely a huge contributor to our economic failures.

to equivicate public transporation to indoor plumbing is ludacris..... *yes, the rapper

99% of people benefit from indoor plumbing, you can in no way say that anywhere near that percentage would use or benefit from a "rail system"

especially in a region like detroit, every dollar put towards public transportation is opportunity cost taken from businesses like Ford and even the Government Motors.....

**rb336** · September-14-12, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

99% of people benefit from indoor plumbing, you can in no way say that anywhere near that percentage would use or benefit from a "rail system"

Would you benefit from decreased congestion? how about leaving your car near home instead of fighting for a space around Ford Field? Or the increased economic opportunities that virtually every study has found follow new rail systems?

**canuck** · September-15-12, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

99% of people benefit from indoor plumbing, you can in no way say that anywhere near that percentage would use or benefit from a "rail system"

especially in a region like detroit, every dollar put towards public transportation is opportunity cost taken from businesses like Ford and even the Government Motors.....

Why did GM drop the ball on transit? Wasnt there money to be made by building buses the way they did for a long time? I dont think it is an either/or in this case; it clearly is a bad business decision that affects cities like Detroit more than others with weaker ties to the auto industry.

**Hermod** · September-15-12, 06:58 AM

Building buses or other transit vehicles is unfortunately a "feast or famine" business. Transit systems get money from a federal grant or local bond issue and buy a whole fleet of "modern vehicles" at one time. Then they run them for years. Finally, the whole fleet is worn out at oat the same time and they go for another bond issue or grant to make another quantity buy. For a manufacturer, a steady replacement of the fleet at say 5-10% a year, year in and year out is far preferable.