State and Mayor Close to a Deal for State Take-over of Belle Isle

**Lowell** · September-11-12, 09:10 AM

The Detroit News is reporting that agreement is close for State takeover of Belle Isle via a long-term lease.

Council approval is still required and a previous attempt failed 5-4. However it appears that some sweetening by the state combined with a shortening of the length of the lease could tip that close balance.

Council president Charles Pugh said: "I just want a functioning Belle Isle, because we all love that place and dream about how it used to be when we were kids when there were horses and canoes, and there were places to eat and go to the bathroom.

"… I just would like to figure out how we can get a shorter lease, a way out of this so that we don't bind the next several mayors and the next several councils."

Pugh said he would rather see a lease that is renewable every 10 years, for example, but "I'm not opposed to what they're offering." He would support a 30-year lease only if it included an option for the city to get out of it, he said.

"We can't just bind ourselves for a more than a generation," Pugh said. "Thirty years is a long time. What if after 12 years we decide that we want a different direction, or we want to modify the deal that we've signed? You can't."

I support this effort and think that the reduction in costs to the city budget combined with improved governance that would lead to more attendance and spin-off business for Detroit businesses is a win-win combination.

What do you think?

**Hermod** · September-11-12, 09:21 AM

Lowell: The state wants a longer lease to justify and amortize any capital improvements they pay for on the island. They don't want to invest big bucks, in say the casino, only to have the city take it all back a couple of years later.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-11-12, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

The Detroit News is reporting that agreement is close for State takeover of Belle Isle via a long-term lease. ... I support this effort and think that the reduction in costs to the city budget combined with improved governance that would lead to more attendance and spin-off business for Detroit businesses is a win-win combination.

What do you think?

Pugh has it about right. All that matters is the result for his residents.

It would be better if we didn't use incendiary language such as 'State takeover'. While accurate, it emphasizes control. Might it be equally accurate to say 'State finally agrees to fund Belle Isle on behalf of Detroit residents'?

I'm glad to see anything that improves quality of life for people, and shares the burden over a broader tax base.

**rb336** · September-11-12, 09:27 AM

the "we can't just bind ourselves for more than a generation" is, perhaps, the most intelligent remark I've heard from Pugh since he's been on the council.

Any qualms people might have over the state running Belle Isle should be allayed by looking at Milliken State Park

**cla1945** · September-11-12, 09:37 AM

Obviously Detroit can't handle Belle Isle on it's own so I think it's a great idea...not just for Detroit residents but for all residents and visitors in Michigan. Just driving through the neighborhoods to get to Belle Isle sends a message of despair to people, driving around on Belle Isle sends that same message because it has not been maintained, roads, grounds, buildings, etc.
Someone needs to do something to clean up the island, keep it safe and gang free on those hot summer nights....if the State does it, so be it.

**mikefmich** · September-11-12, 09:55 AM

On one hand, it's sad it's come to this. Some folks would run with that and claim hell no, that's our "sparkling" city park we've had for over a century.

Sadly, the sparkle went out of Belle Isle many years ago. It's a shell of what it was, along with the entire east side that's turned into urban prairie.

Hermod hit the nail on the head IMHO. And sadness vis a vis, an emotional outllook probably has no place in a logical and pragmatic survival & financial decision.

I say give it to 'em for 30 yrs. Whatever the state might do, is better than Detroit has done with it for a long time.

OH yeah....put a state police post where the Detroit post used to be there?

**getmoore** · September-11-12, 10:12 AM

Well maybe in 30 years we'll be a much different Detroit and whatever improvements we've gained in those 30 years can be continued without the state's involvement. I hope.

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 10:30 AM

What? There were canoe rentals in the 1970s?

**Wesley Mouch** · September-11-12, 10:42 AM

I look forward to the day when the City of Detroit values its parks again, rather than wasting its money. I hope I see that day.

**jcole** · September-11-12, 10:47 AM

This site says the new livery opened in 1964, so it's not a real stretch to imagine it was there 6 yrs later. And, as I was 14 in 1970 and I remember the canoes, I'd say it was possible.
http://voiceofdetroit.net/wp-content...LE-HISTORY.pdf

**gazhekwe** · September-11-12, 11:36 AM

Yes, there were canoes in the 70s. Not horses though.

**jcole** · September-11-12, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Yes, there were canoes in the 70s. Not horses though.

But there were ponies in the '60's

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Yes, there were canoes in the 70s. Not horses though.

Pugh stretches the truth? I simply don't believe it.

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 11:52 AM

Frankly, I'll just say it again. Belle Isle is beautiful. I don't understand all those who say it's awful, a shell, a shame, or anything like that. It's a great drive. If you don't like the cookouts, head for the nature paths or the lighthouse. Honestly, it's pretty well cleaned up by the city workers. I wonder what island it is that you've seen to say such things...

**Wesley Mouch** · September-11-12, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Frankly, I'll just say it again. Belle Isle is beautiful. I don't understand all those who say it's awful, a shell, a shame, or anything like that. It's a great drive. If you don't like the cookouts, head for the nature paths or the lighthouse. Honestly, it's pretty well cleaned up by the city workers. I wonder what island it is that you've seen to say such things...

Second to Nerdo's motion. BI is a great park. And its maintained pretty well.

But I favor the State stepping up to the plate and spending state-wide money on a state-wide asset. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, Detroit needs to focus its energies on core issues -- competence in police, fire, trash, health, streets/traffic, records, administration, code enforcement and the like. Let others spend their time and energy on important, but secondard things like parks and recreation. All the major parks in Detroit would be best managed by Huron-Clinton or the State -- Chandler and Rouge immediately come to mind as large parks that can only distract from core issues.

But I agree -- Belle Isle is a gem -- and the love the City has been giving it shows -- even if its not as much as we would all like.

**Eber Brock Ward** · September-11-12, 12:25 PM

Jeez, it's almost like battered spouse/Stockholm syndrome.

Look, by just about any measure, Belle Isle is not a healthy, functioning city park. And while it's a gem, it's a gem that's got all sorts of gunk on it that's barely holding in it's setting, if you want to stretch out the metaphor.

I encourage those that maintain that it is in even 3 out of 10 shape to get out of the region and see how things should be. We, as Detroiters, should *DEMAND* more, and vote out any goons that get in the way of any type of progress/improvement with political grandstanding, no matter whether they're city, state, non-profit, whatever actors.

Perfect/enemy of the good and all that.

**corktownyuppie** · September-11-12, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by getmoore

Well maybe in 30 years we'll be a much different Detroit and whatever improvements we've gained in those 30 years can be continued without the state's involvement. I hope.

Or maybe in 30 years we'll be a much different Detroit, and the state will be a much different state, and we'll care less about who's involved and more about how awesome the park is and how we can continue to improve it?

**jpbollma** · September-11-12, 12:42 PM

This is nothing but good. I hope they can do the same with other parks.

**dmike76** · September-11-12, 01:14 PM

I really hope the Clowncil doesn't manage to screw this up. Unfortunately, as we all know, they probably will.

**esteban** · September-11-12, 01:28 PM

Sorry, but I see this in stark, simple - and many would say unrealistic - terms. Belle Isle belongs to Detroit, and whether you like it or not, Detroit is the largest city in Michigan. If you can't help and support the larger, why should we believe you can maintain the lesser?

**mikefmich** · September-11-12, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Frankly, I'll just say it again. Belle Isle is beautiful. I don't understand all those who say it's awful, a shell, a shame, or anything like that. It's a great drive. If you don't like the cookouts, head for the nature paths or the lighthouse. Honestly, it's pretty well cleaned up by the city workers. I wonder what island it is that you've seen to say such things...

I don't know how old you are....but get in a time machine back to the 1950's & early 60's. Or I could post pic of my grandparents & great grandparents there circa 1900-1920.

If you are old enough to go back 50-55 yrs.....I got nuthin'.

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by mikefmich

I don't know how old you are....but get in a time machine back to the 1950's & early 60's. Or I could post pic of my grandparents & great grandparents there circa 1900-1920.

If you are old enough to go back 50-55 yrs.....I got nuthin'.

You could say the same about the whole city. Sure, there are fewer amenities on the island, I grant you. But I still manage to enjoy myself there, and I'm afraid it's not as undesirable as some posters on this board would make it out to be.

That is, unless the posters aren't really talking about the island so much as the melanin content of recreation-seekers.

**corktownyuppie** · September-11-12, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

You could say the same about the whole city. Sure, there are fewer amenities on the island, I grant you. But I still manage to enjoy myself there, and I'm afraid it's not as undesirable as some posters on this board would make it out to be.

I'm not saying that you can't enjoy yourself there. I enjoy myself there.

But I think more people would enjoy it if there was toilet paper in the stalls. If there wasn't litter on the ground. Etc.

This isn't about melanin. Look at Grand Circus Park. Right across the Kale building is a beautiful fountain. It's where the Occupy Detroit movement camped. On any given day, most of the people sitting in the vicinity are black. Few are highly educated with high incomes. I do smell lots of marijuana, so they are certainly high something. Yesterday I walked through there and a bunch of guys invited me to join their dice game, which I did for a short time. They drank what were presumably 40-oz. beers [[I couldn't tell because they were in paper bags) and weren't causing any trouble.

No one is trying to sweep them off the streets.

Even with the state's proposal, Belle Isle would be free to any pedestrian or biker who walked or rode onto the island.

Take the deal.

**jpbollma** · September-11-12, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

You could say the same about the whole city. Sure, there are fewer amenities on the island, I grant you. But I still manage to enjoy myself there, and I'm afraid it's not as undesirable as some posters on this board would make it out to be.

That is, unless the posters aren't really talking about the island so much as the melanin content of recreation-seekers.

Wow, so the fact that a large number of people are unhappy with the island is race based? Weird, pretty sure half of the clownil and mayor support a state assisted plan and they certainly aren't white. Definitely a cheap shot there.

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

Wow, so the fact that a large number of people are unhappy with the island is race based? Weird, pretty sure half of the clownil and mayor support a state assisted plan and they certainly aren't white. Definitely a cheap shot there.

No, not a cheap shot. As a Caucasian, I am quietly listening to white metro Detroiters in bars and barbershops and I know how racist white metro Detroiters can be. You bet your boots that such prejudices play into this, though usually in coded ways.

The "race card" is always quietly in play. The only people who get accused of playing it are those who acknowledge its existence.