Anybody Know Elmer/Porab/Gasm Tag artist in Detroit?

**Scottathew** · September-03-12, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by rex

i disagree. Most of what gets wrote on are abandoned burnt out or neglected shells of buildings. Their owners long since relented and moved on. I suppose this makes them property of the city. Whats wrong with painting things of this nature. If anything get upset at the city for allowing these surfaces to remain standing. Occasionally the freeway gets it but its pretty unusual for anything nice or an open for business to be hit up. If you dont like it ignore it.

What's wrong with it? Do people want to buy a house that's tagged with graffiti? Do people want to live next to vandalism? Do people want to live in a neighborhood covered with vandalism?

No. Vandalism is simply a sign of crime and decay, and people don't want to live near it.

If they want to tag up a house, then they can buy that house and tag it up.

Vandalism is part of the problem in Detroit, not some kind of artistic solution.

**rex** · September-03-12, 02:54 PM

nobody tags houses with graffiti. Perhaps neighborhood kids, gangs marking turf and random scrawl. Not saying it doesn't happen but its not typical. The majority of structures that get lit up might as well be pulled down. Look at google maps arial views. Plenty of these buildings have structural damage, holes in the roofs and subsequent water damage, fire damage,open to the elements. If in the unlikely event a building thats been painted with graffiti is in any shape to be reopened as a business it would probably need to be repainted anyways. Graffiti or not. Think you guys are really overestimating the quality of commercial and industrial building-stock in the neighborhood areas and along the thoroughfares. A little graffiti isn't whats holding Detroit back. Not a big deal. Something to look at.

**rjlj** · September-03-12, 04:54 PM

I hate these guys. They really suck and deserve a severe ass beating.

**mauser** · September-03-12, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

I hate these guys. They really suck and deserve a severe ass beating.

Again I ask - why is Tyree Guyton immune from your venom on this issue ? He is the most prolific graffiti "vandal" the city has ever seen - HANDS DOWN.

Is it that all the hot air suddenly deflates when the blowhards actually know a graffiti "vandal"s identity ?

rjlj - are you ready to go give "Dr." Guyton a "severe ass beating" ? Because he is a pretty big dude.

**Wheels** · September-03-12, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by mauser

He is the most prolific graffiti "vandal" the city has ever seen - HANDS DOWN.

True statement. Why his garbage collections are viewed as art is beyond me. He would have been arrested in most cities.

**warsaw7** · September-03-12, 09:10 PM

This may be the worse thread ever, not to mention the most tiresome. We get people don't like graffiti/vandalism/street art, stop beating a dead horse.

Why in god's name would the police be there?! I wish people would understand the police have bigger things to worry about then going and catching some artists at a legit gallery! I have nothing more to say in regards to this topic, so please stop with the graffiti topics......

**Honky Tonk** · September-03-12, 09:48 PM

“nobody tags houses with graffiti”
BS, Ya’ll’s boy GASM does. I can name 3 off the top of my head.
“Not saying it doesn't happen”
2 sentences ago you just did…
“The majority of structures that get lit up might as well be pulled down”
And you’re what? A building inspector? The graffiti judge and jury?
“A little graffiti isn't whats holding Detroit back”
Well it sure isn’t doing jack to promote or bring Detroit back either, is it? Other than luring a few shutterbugs to come down and take pictures. But then that’s what it’s all about for these vandals, isn’t it? “Hey look @ me; I scribbled my name on something!”
“Not a big deal”
Not for you, you probably don’t have anything invested, so what if you destroy someone else’s property.

“Again I ask - why is Tyree Guyton immune from your venom on this issue ?”
Tyree confided his "garbage pile" to one neighborhood, and has for years now. Last time I checked, Tyree wasn’t waiting for someone to go home @ 5, so he could staple stuffed animals all over their place of business. Tyree painted dots on buildings all over the city for sure, to draw the city’s attention to buildings that NEEDED to be removed. He wasn’t the cause of their demise.

**rjlj** · September-03-12, 10:35 PM

Good point dmauserfunk. My standpoint is from a matter of who has contributed to the community and who has talent. Guyton has contributed to the community in a positive manner. Gasm, porab and elmer bubble letters contribute nothing to this city. Any middle schooler does the same on their trapper keeper. Just because you know them from running into them while taking pictures around the city does not legitimize them. They have done nothing to put beauty or turn a negative into a positive in this city.

Originally Posted by mauser

Again I ask - why is Tyree Guyton immune from your venom on this issue ? He is the most prolific graffiti "vandal" the city has ever seen - HANDS DOWN.

Is it that all the hot air suddenly deflates when the blowhards actually know a graffiti "vandal"s identity ?

rjlj - are you ready to go give "Dr." Guyton a "severe ass beating" ? Because he is a pretty big dude.

**Richard** · September-03-12, 10:52 PM

Graffiti database ,snap a pic upload it and it matches across what is posted on the Internet and matches up styles for felony convictions as the evidence is stored . No need to catch in the act and no hiding by going to another state.

Ask the guy in Cali doing 3 years,busted because he uploaded to flicker the pics were the evidence .

It is a qaulity of life issue and some seem not to care about about others .

**rjlj** · September-03-12, 10:58 PM

Let me just point out how awesome GASM is, please note the fine picture in the attached article. I met the Cranbrook students that built this house, awesome guys. Now who deserves recognition and praise?

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2012/0...newal-efforts/

Originally Posted by mauser

Again I ask - why is Tyree Guyton immune from your venom on this issue ? He is the most prolific graffiti "vandal" the city has ever seen - HANDS DOWN.

Is it that all the hot air suddenly deflates when the blowhards actually know a graffiti "vandal"s identity ?

rjlj - are you ready to go give "Dr." Guyton a "severe ass beating" ? Because he is a pretty big dude.

**neavling** · September-03-12, 11:43 PM

I would have less of a problem with graffiti if so much of it wasn't crap. There's clearly a lack of talent coming from the hands of graffiti artists. Sure, there are a few good taggers, but for the most part, it's all the same trite, bubbly lettering that is nothing more than an ego stamp.

**canuck** · September-04-12, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by neavling

I would have less of a problem with graffiti if so much of it wasn't crap. There's clearly a lack of talent coming from the hands of graffiti artists. Sure, there are a few good taggers, but for the most part, it's all the same trite, bubbly lettering that is nothing more than an ego stamp.

You're being so judgemental! And you are right.

**mauser** · September-04-12, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by rjlj

My standpoint is from a matter of who has contributed to the community and who has talent. Guyton has contributed to the community in a positive manner.

I see - so you are the arbiter of what is "art" and not, and that is what the city should go by when prosecuting like crimes....If somebody "contributes" to the community, they can go bat-sh*t crazy with graffiti...but anybody else who does graffiti is 1.) not an "artist" and not "talented" and 2.) should be met with physical violence at your behest. That isnt fuddy duddy, thats is straight up ignorance.

Point made.

**mauser** · September-04-12, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Last time I checked, Tyree wasn’t waiting for someone to go home @ 5, so he could staple stuffed animals all over their place of business. Tyree painted dots on buildings all over the city for sure, to draw the city’s attention to buildings that NEEDED to be removed. He wasn’t the cause of their demise.

Okay, so YOU are justifying graffiti/vandalism by an individual. You think you know the motivations for Guytons vandalism, but how do you know that any of the other graffiti vandals dont think the same thing while they spew their crap everywhere ?

Everybody will make excuses for Tyree Guyton, but he is exactly the same as any other street artist/graffiti vandal. Exactly the same.

The only justification I hear is that Guyton was able to channel his vandalism into a profit making venture - i.e. his career. The dots are self promotion advertisements, and have nothing to do with helping the city see blight.

If we roll with the theory that Guyton vandalizes property that is not his in order to draw attention to it - I have to ask, are people having a hard time noticing blight in Detroit ? By this logic, ISNT TYREE GUYTON THE ORIGINAL RUINS PORNORGRAPHER ?

I say "yes".

**mauser** · September-04-12, 05:23 AM

The simple fact is, right now there are more graffiti writers painting in Detroit than there are Detroit police. Dont believe me ? Check it out - there is more graffiti in the city right now than at any point in its history, and there is going to be much more as time goes on.

https://www.facebook.com/GraffitiArchive

Dont like it ? If you are a Detroit resident, you need to increase your police population X10. Surely you are not expecting the graffiti people to turn themselves in, because apparently Detroit police are too busy to take a police report from a murderer. On the EastSide, they would have to phone in their confession because the Police shops are closed after business hours.

Thinkaboutit.

[p.s. you will also need to PAY your police for them to be effective. no tickey, no washey.]

**Richard** · September-04-12, 09:29 AM

If you base it on statistics 20% of graffiti taggers are over 21,most taggers over are tagging multiple buildings.One tag is a misdemeanor $500 fine over one tag becomes a felony.

Like I posted above any tag picture posted on the internet is automatically added to the database this matches up styles so for instance if you tag and have a similar style to somebody else you will still be matched up and can be charged with the whole batch.

If you tag in Seattle and then move to Detroit and start tagging that style can be matched up and Seattle will come and get you because it is considered a serious matter in other cities and the amount of damage caused is worth the trip.

The minors tagging are the easy one because you can charge their parents with the bill and all you need to do once again is match styles and charge for whether it was done by them or not.This is what pays for a graffiti task force even if it is only one because you do not need to catch in the act.

Is it a case of that the police force is stressed to the breaking point where the qauilty of life issues are not a priority or are the qauility of life issues creating the stress because if you do not address them you are creating a attitude of lawlessness based on the police is not going or cannot address them anyways so it is an acceptable practice to some and they see no harm.

You see it here posted all of the time it is okay to trespass,scrap,tag etc because the buildings are vacant so nobody cares about them and that justifies the act ,but it is really maybe a bunch of self centered individuals that feel it is their right, but they are not taking into consideration that there are others that live within their city that are trying to do good and they by their actions are creating the two steps forward one step back.

Its been posted here before many times this is not all rocket science and Detroit does not have the exclusive right to lawlessness it just seems as though there is a knack of placing people at the top whose favorite line is there is no funds to take care of these problems.

Funds are not applied for because of a lack of knowledge of what is available or the funds are applied for and directed elsewhere.

The Federal Government has allocated $3 million from the Proceeds of Crime Fund to help local councils clean up and prevent graffiti, said Minister for Justice Jason Clare.
Grants of $50,000 to $150,000 will be offered to local governments to invest in measures including cleaning up graffiti, reducing graffiti through improved lighting, CCTV in graffiti hotspots and preventing graffiti through better education.

http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com....oast-graffiti/

Using Federal Funds From The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development

http://www.aurora-il.org/community_services/neighborhoodredevelopment/using_federal_HUD_funds.php

Etc,etc,etc, there is no way anybody can use there is no money excuse pretty much every city in the country seems to get it,but this is yet another example of why you guys need to deal with the new city charter and if you want improvements in the neighborhoods get some representation,the first of the year is coming up fast yet nobody is stepping forward and campaigning,why is that? You like who is and are comfortable with who is your currant representation on city council? Are they doing a good job for you?

**rex** · September-04-12, 09:34 AM

its good to see you guys renting so much space in your heads over this. Nothing like upsetting uptight people

**Richard** · September-04-12, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by rex

its good to see you guys renting so much space in your heads over this. Nothing like upsetting uptight people

LOL okay a happy medium would be voluntary tagger fund where the taggers would contribute to a fund that would be used for clean up,then they would have a unlimited palate to start with. How many would contribute?

**mauser** · September-04-12, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Etc,etc,etc, there is no way anybody can use there is no money excuse pretty much every city in the country seems to get it,but this is yet another example of why you guys need to deal with the new city charter and if you want improvements in the neighborhoods get some representation,the first of the year is coming up fast yet nobody is stepping forward and campaigning,why is that? You like who is and are comfortable with who is your currant representation on city council? Are they doing a good job for you?

City council ? "Representation" ? Dude, we are talking about Detroit, Michigan. They are not allowed to have representatives or elected officials, the whole thing is run by the Governor and his appointees. [[Emergency Financial Managers)

And what the Governor wants more than chasing kids with spray paint cans, is to bust that police union to pieces and spread it to the wind - just like they did with the teachers union. They DONT CARE about the people. They are concerned with money, power and land grabs.

Not sure where you are writing from, but democracy has been suspended in the State of Michigan. It is for our own good. </sarcasm>

**mauser** · September-04-12, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by rex

its good to see you guys renting so much space in your heads over this. Nothing like upsetting uptight people

Agreed ! In the meantime, every square inch of the city is being coated with beautiful paintings...ahwell...

**mauser** · September-04-12, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Let me just point out how awesome GASM is, please note the fine picture in the attached article. I met the Cranbrook students that built this house, awesome guys. Now who deserves recognition and praise?
http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2012/0...newal-efforts/

rjlj - You are seriously joking with this example - arent you ???????? Do you not see the giant TYREE GUYTON DOT on your example of vandalism ? You only see the GASM tag right ?

Hypocritical much ?

**mauser** · September-04-12, 12:33 PM

For rjlj and everybody else suffering cognitive dissonance in the process of trying to argue about graffiti - first of all NO, Tyree Guyton does NOT limit what he does to Heidelberg Street. YES, he has in fact tagged historic brick structures that have since been rehabilitated - although they still suffer the scars of his retarded dot tags.

Here is one on Gratiot Avenue:
http://goo.gl/maps/WZJPo

No need to plug a photo of one of these dots into Richards imaginary database, because we all know who does them. And as for any criticism about GASM or whoever else not creating "art", I submit that Tyree Guyton has come up with the WORST graffiti tag in Detroits history. One that requires only a slop bucket of paint and one arm. No talent needed, just the will to paint on other peoples property.

Okay, now that we have done away with the need for Richards Carnivore style government database to identify and locate this prolific vandal, how do we find him ? Do we need more Detroit police ? A different City Council ? A federal grant ?

No ?
No...Because he is right here in Brush Park:
http://goo.gl/maps/eoBgl

You will start to see his slop dots etc on various Brush Park structures as you approach his studio.

**Richard** · September-04-12, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by mauser

City council ? "Representation" ? Dude, we are talking about Detroit, Michigan. They are not allowed to have representatives or elected officials, the whole thing is run by the Governor and his appointees. [[Emergency Financial Managers)

And what the Governor wants more than chasing kids with spray paint cans, is to bust that police union to pieces and spread it to the wind - just like they did with the teachers union. They DONT CARE about the people. They are concerned with money, power and land grabs.

Not sure where you are writing from, but democracy has been suspended in the State of Michigan. It is for our own good. </sarcasm>

I agree with you 100% but are you familiar with the new charter and how it will benefit you?

I do not agree with many things the state is doing but on the other hand if they had not stepped in what would the results have been? I do not really believe they were given no other choice but after the first of the year the question is how many will be willing to take their city back and tell the state thanks but we have this now and are ready to move forward.

It really does not matter where I am posting from I can read,and never in the farthest reaches of my uptight mind would I ever even think of going into a city while she is down and contribute even more to the problems because I can.

I do not venture into the realm of the suburbs so I guess the question I have is this also a problem there? Do you see graffiti in say Birmingham,Romulus,Gross point etc.? and if so how is it perceived there or does it not matter because they live in the burbs so they are uptight anyways.

**Honky Tonk** · September-04-12, 01:00 PM

ISNT TYREE GUYTON THE ORIGINAL RUINS PORNORGRAPHER ?
Again I ask - why is Tyree Guyton immune from your venom on this issue ?
Are you ready to go give "Dr." Guyton a "severe ass beating" ?
You think you know the motivations for Guytons vandalism?

"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.........."

**SWMAP** · September-04-12, 01:13 PM

I also feel venomous on the issue of graffiti - especially as spray-painted on brick buildings that will forever be marred by the paint even if power-washed. This is the situation in SW Detroit where your heroes have ruined vast numbers of buildings that will never look the same. Last night, a huge tag appeared on the side of the brick turn-of-the-last century building on the corner of Cavalry & West Vernor. this building has been lovingly cared for by a succession of owners and even now, is occupied by a nice professional business. So much for the much- avowed 'respect" that taggers demonstrate.

As for Guyton - that I know of , he has never ruined a brick building that does not belong to him with irremovable spray paint. As far as I have seen, his work can all be easily remediated.