Bicyclist Attacks Driver, Gets Shot, Dies

**Meddle** · August-30-12, 10:06 AM

A bicyclist died after being shot by a motorist he attacked after the two collided in a Taylor intersection Wednesday, according to police.

The 46-year-old driver is in custody while the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office reviews facts in the 6:30 p.m. shooting, according Taylor police.

Police were trying to identify the cyclist, a white man in his late 30s or early 40s with graying hair and riding a yellow bike.

Witnesses told investigators the motorist was northbound at Telegraph attempting to turn east onto Northline when the cyclist disregarded a Do Not Walk light. The two collided, and the cyclist immediately went over to the driver's side of the vehicle and started punching the driver.

The motorist pulled out a gun and shot the cyclist once in the chest, according to police. The cyclist died while in surgery a short time later, according to police.

The motorist remained in his vehicle until police arrived and was taken into custody.

Taylor police are asking anyone with information to call 734-287-6611.

http://www.freep.com/article/2012083...text|FRONTPAGE

**downtownguy** · August-30-12, 11:29 AM

Bicyclist Dies Following ‘Road Rage’ Shooting In Taylor

Same story but look at the difference in headlines. The above one comes from WWJ. When I saw that headline my first thought was the driver went after the bicyclist. Turns out, it was the other way around. Without seeing the incident, though, I wonder if the driver felt threatened enough to shoot the guy.

The Freep story says this:

Witnesses told investigators the motorist was northbound at Telegraph attempting to turn east onto Northline when the cyclist disregarded a Do Not Walk light.

Is the Do Not Walk signal relevant here? As a pedestrian who walks rather fast, I often ignore that signal. I thought it was more advisory than anything. Is it illegal for a pedestrian [[or bicyclist) to cross the street on a Do Not Walk signal?

**Meddle** · August-30-12, 11:36 AM

Is it illegal for a pedestrian [[or bicyclist) to cross the street on a Do Not Walk signal?

I always understood that it was the same as a Yellow light if blinking and a Red light if steady.

But it doesn't really matter. You don't walk up to a car and attack the driver.

**Pickford-Bentler** · August-30-12, 11:46 AM

A bicyclist is supposed to dismount and walk a bike across crosswalk with a pedestrian light. If one wants to stay mounted, then they must become part of the traffic in the car lanes. The bicyclist violated both the "do not walk rule" and the "must dismount, when in a pedestrian walkway" rule. Of course, this is all moot seeing as the "pick your battles wisely" rule was also violated.

A am a bicyclist and try my best to not piss off the cars and pedestrians that I share the roads and walkways with.

**firstandten** · August-30-12, 05:11 PM

I heard that this guy was homeless, and that was the reason they had a hard time contacting next of kin. I am also going to guess that the guy probably had mental issues. If that happens to be the case, I doubt the driver of the car will even be charged.

**Scottathew** · August-30-12, 06:37 PM

People need to calm down on the rage.

Last Saturday my wife was at a green light. The car in front of her didn't go, so she went around them without honking, gesturing, or anything.

The next thing she knew that car that was ignoring the green was cutting her off, flicking her off, screaming at her, slamming on her breaks, and followed her from Madison Heights to Royal Oak.

My wife called me up frantic, telling me that she wasn't doing anything to escalate the situation, but this crazy lady was still after her. I instructed my wife to call 911 and drive to the police station.

The woman followed my wife all the way to the Royal Oak police station, but when my wife turned into the parking lot the lady continued down the road and finally left her alone. The dispatchers stayed on the line the entire time with my wife. There were officers in the parking lot to greet her. Thank goodness for the ROPD.

It's just crazy how even when one party isn't even escalating that the other party won't give up.

**Wesley Mouch** · August-30-12, 07:22 PM

Regardless of the start of the argument, it sounds like self defense. The issue will be disproportionate force. I don't know the standards for citizens, but I would expect that you cannot shoot someone attacking you unless you are being assaulted [[he was it seems) and the assault was serious enough that you had a reasonable concern for your safety.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I don't really care that he was a bum or mentally ill. I feel sorry for him -- but I also feel sorry for a citizen who is attacked and at risk of injury or death.

**cla1945** · August-31-12, 07:21 AM

I have a permit to carry. I would do the same thing in this situation. When the first punch is thrown, I most certainly would feel my life is in danger and protect myself, any way I can. If that means shooting my attacker, I will. That would be the last thing I want to do, but why else would I carry a weapon?
I have had people say to me that the driver of the truck should have driven away [[leaving the scene of an accident)...the driver should have rolled up his window [[did he know the attacker was going to hit him)? Who would expect this person on a bike to get up, after hitting a truck, come over to the driver and start punching?
I hope the police let this man go, he did nothing wrong.

**noise** · August-31-12, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I have had people say to me that the driver of the truck should have driven away [[leaving the scene of an accident)

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, although I probably wouldn't react by killing a man, but this is pretty absurd. Crossing the street is not "leaving the scene of an accident". For that matter, getting yourself out of imminent danger will always override "leaving the scene of an accident".

**Casual** · August-31-12, 08:01 AM

It's good to know getting your ass kicked means you can kill your attacker. George Zimmerman will get off for sure now.

I wonder if the same rules apply to children?

Billy hit me so I pulled out a knife and stabbed him.

**poobert** · August-31-12, 08:20 AM

If I had a dollar for every time I heard "but the people here are nice" from Metro Detroiters, I could finally move out of this godforsaken hellhole of a region.

Crash, punch, shoot. And a crime-tracking map that looks like a bad case of acne. Yeah, real salt of the earth here.

**jcole** · August-31-12, 08:32 AM

why didn't the driver just roll up the window?

**downtown_racine** · August-31-12, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

why didn't the driver just roll up the window?

Maybe the automobile was a Chrysler with a broken window regulator, or someone converted his window to "Detroit diamonds"

**rex** · August-31-12, 09:30 AM

brought a bike to a carfight

**cla1945** · August-31-12, 09:33 AM

I am sure that the man in the truck didn't want to kill his attacker, but under the circumstances how did he know that the idiot on the bike didn't have his own gun? Anyone who is dumb enough to get up off the ground after hitting a truck... [[and it was his fault); then go over to the window of an unsuspecting driver who probably figured he only wanted to discuss the accident..then punch him in the face, more than likely knocking him sideways, limiting the drivers ability to just drive away or roll up a window, was asking for trouble. He was a bully who thought he could intimidate someone and unfortunately, he lost his life because of it.

Driving away, rolling up a window are all good "afterthoughts", but when someone is standing outside your car and has already coldcocked you, those options are gone.

You absolutely can't put your hands on someone else. You can't go around punching people because of your bad actions. People have the absolute right to protect themselves. There is a "Self-Defense Law" in Michigan, those of you with the "perfect" solutions to this unfortunate incident should read it.

**gazhekwe** · August-31-12, 09:49 AM

To me, this unfortunate incident points out one of the ills of gun ownership. This man bought a gun for his protection, was legally carrying it in case something bad happened, so the first thing he thinks of when someone is acting crazy and attacking him with fists is, pull the gun and shoot. Other options might have occurred to him if he did not have a gun which he had already decided was his only defense.

**Crumbled_pavement** · August-31-12, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by cla1945

You can't go around punching people because of your bad actions.

[SARCASM]
What, I can't? That's not the America I want to live in.
[/SARCASM]

**kenp** · August-31-12, 10:09 AM

On bikes you have to be careful. I try to follow the rules as if Im a car but at all times wary if Im seen or something is coming. Many people dont know or care if a bike has the right away which makes it challenging. In other cases bikers dont care either. Not sure what happened in this case but it doesnt warrant attacking someone or being shot either. Society is so out of control sometimes.

**poobert** · August-31-12, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I am sure that the man in the truck didn't want to kill his attacker, but under the circumstances how did he know that the idiot on the bike didn't have his own gun? Anyone who is dumb enough to get up off the ground after hitting a truck... [[and it was his fault); then go over to the window of an unsuspecting driver who probably figured he only wanted to discuss the accident..then punch him in the face, more than likely knocking him sideways, limiting the drivers ability to just drive away or roll up a window, was asking for trouble. He was a bully who thought he could intimidate someone and unfortunately, he lost his life because of it.

Driving away, rolling up a window are all good "afterthoughts", but when someone is standing outside your car and has already coldcocked you, those options are gone.

You absolutely can't put your hands on someone else. You can't go around punching people because of your bad actions. People have the absolute right to protect themselves. There is a "Self-Defense Law" in Michigan, those of you with the "perfect" solutions to this unfortunate incident should read it.

It is good to know in your view of society, we are all inches from death.

I've been in a few scuffles before, with a few punches thrown. While wise decisions were not made all-around, all parties involved are still leading happy lives. Again, I lament that in your worldview one of us should have been fair game for slaughter rather than dusting ourselves off and walking away.

I know things unfold quickly and hindsight is 20/20, but it seems like there were thousands of other possibilities that could have involved no one getting killed. I'd probably feel like slugging somebody who hit me while I was riding my bike, which apparently is a death sentence.

So then you go on to say that maybe the cyclist may have had a gun. Another fine example of a utopian NRA society - assume everyone you bump into is armed to the teeth and blow them to kingdom come before they can do the same to you. What a nightmarish hell to live in.

I've always been pretty supportive of gun rights but there are just way too many bullets flying around. Even with law-abiding citizens, bullets are lethal and turn far too many situations that real men could have walked away from into a blood bath. I'm not into that, sorry.

**cla1945** · August-31-12, 11:19 AM

^^^Society is a sick puppy today. Those who are running the streets randomly murdering people do not abide by any set of laws or rules, they live by their own standards, and they are certainly not the guidelines I wish to live my life by.

It's good to know that you've been in a few "scuffles" before and lived through it. Nice that everyone is now living happy lives...but that isn't always the outcome of some scuffles. This isn't an ideal world and if I can do anything to protect myself or loved ones, or perhaps even you someday, then I will do that and carry a weapon until I can't hold it any longer.

Incidentally, from what I read...the cyclist actually hit the truck, not the other way around. The incident was not as "simple" as you make it...just another day on my bike and someone shot me. This was a choice the cyclist made to get up and try to kill the driver, plain and simple.

I advocate the right to protect my family and myself. I am certainly not some crazy person who will just pull out my weapon on a whim. I have gone through required classes to learn how to use my weapon [[even though I already knew how); when to use my weapon...and I've done it all legally. Those of us who carry a concealed weapon do so because of those idiots [[like the man on the bike) who wish us harm for reasons that I can't comprehend.

**kryptonite** · August-31-12, 11:33 AM

there are photos in online news reports that show damage to the right side of the truck supporting the eyewitness who said she saw the bike run into the truck.

She also claims that the bicyclist was aggressive and violent toward the driver, attacking the driver punching him in the head multiple times.

You don't just drive off from an accident. That leaves you open for hit-and-run charges. And how would you just roll up the window with the attacker already partly into the cab of the truck? I don't have a weapon or a permit to carry but I can understand how someone with a weapon would choose to use it if physically attacked.

**noise** · August-31-12, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by cla1945

Driving away, rolling up a window are all good "afterthoughts", but when someone is standing outside your car and has already coldcocked you, those options are gone.

Have you heard of fight or flight?

**noise** · August-31-12, 11:35 AM

To be totally honest, I think the world would be a better place if some people did get punched once or twice.

The Earth will keep spinning and your black eye will heal.

**noise** · August-31-12, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

You don't just drive off from an accident. That leaves you open for hit-and-run charges.

No matter how many times this is repeated, it's absolute BS in the context of this situation.

**Wesley Mouch** · August-31-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by noise

Have you heard of fight or flight?

I'm not sure what you are advocating. But if you think he should have just fled, you're making a lot of assumptions about the situation.

Suppose the crazed guy striking you says 'I've got a gun, and I'm going to kill you now'. While your shielding your head, do you have the luxury of being able to know what he will really do next?

People who defend attackers have probably never been truly threatened by a crazoid. Its really easy to counsel peace from your couch. Much harder on the spot.