Mudgie's in Corktown aims for liquor license, faces opposition

[detroitgirl]

Anyone have any insight on what the opposition is about? The only thing I can think of is that since Mudgie's is pretty much right in the middle of a very family friendly, residential area that some in the community would be concerned about drunk driving, loud patrons exiting the restaurant, more traffic, etc.

Any thoughts?

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...ims_for_l.html

[Wesley Mouch]

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...ims_for_l.html

Anyone have any insight on what the opposition is about? The only thing I can think of is that since Mudgie's is pretty much right in the middle of a very family friendly, residential area that some in the community would be concerned about drunk driving, loud patrons exiting the restaurant, more traffic, etc.

Any thoughts?

There's almost always someone opposed to anything. The deeper question is why our liquor laws in Michigan can't encourage reasonable consumption, but mostly serve as barrier to people with new ideas.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Big surprise there [[not). Some of the neighbors were against the private club "Ten Critics" getting their license, and ran them out of Corktown after they invested almost 300k into a derelict property. Then CVS proposed a store at the corner of MLK and Grand River, with extra lighting and a cool facade to add some character. And after the corporate developers told the crowd that they would indeed be selling liquor like almost every other CVS does, some of the neighbors started a bitchfest and CVS never came back. Corner still empty, and still gotta drive past livernois to hit up a 24hr store.

The attitude frequently on display is, "This particular [[insert here) doesn't fit our neighborhood," so read what you will between those lines. I believe the real culprits behind running a few of these businesses out and/or fighting mudgie's license app are a few well connected individuals, not always representative of the majority of the Corktown community.

The community politics at work in this part of Detroit can be heavy. Everybody seems to have their "vision" for Corktown, and some of those visions land on opposite ends of the desired development spectrum.

[rutlev]

Big big difference between Mudgie's and what was going to happen at Ten Critics.

[detroitgirl]

I managed to dig up a little more on this.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...y-backyard.php

[detroitsgwenivere]

Big big difference between Mudgie's and what was going to happen at Ten Critics.

I agree, there are a few significant differences, and there was a lot more opposition to ten critics than I'm sure there is to mudgies serving some drinks with dinner. I'm just giving some backround to what appears to be a pattern of opposition to certain types of developments, and to the nature of one of the many perceptions that is held in the Corktown sphere, that's all.

[jt1]

I agree, there are a few significant differences, and there was a lot more opposition to ten critics than I'm sure there is to mudgies serving some drinks with dinner. I'm just giving some backround to what appears to be a pattern of opposition to certain types of developments, and to the nature of one of the many perceptions that is held in the Corktown sphere, that's all.

Isn't there a school and a playground so close that you could throw a piece of corned beef from Mudgies and hit them both.

If that is the case, and that is the cause of concern I would say it is a valid one.

[Richard]

Tampa and Orlando have neighborhood bars in converted historic bungalows,mostly just allowed to serve beer and wine, they are nice ,the
crowd is mostly younger yuppies and not like a club sene at all ,just casual chic kinda thing , lots of opposition when they were allowed but caters to a whole different group and they blend in nicely now .

[Richard]

Isn't there a school and a playground so close that you could throw a piece of corned beef from Mudgies and hit them both.

If that is the case, and that is the cause of concern I would say it is a valid one.

A lot of cities have a 1000 ft rule when it comes to churches and schools and bars.

[Gannon]

A lot of cities have a 1000 ft rule when it comes to churches and schools and bars.

Curious, that.

Are drunks only dangerous for the first 1000 feet?!

Need to give the vicar and principal some exercise?


Or is this proof that Church Ladies are near-sighted? Put things a wee bit further from them, and they stop their complainin'.


I'd say we need to amend that rule and insure everyone can get a decent brew or glass of vino within one foot of their favorite sandwich!


Cheers

[socks_mahoney]

I was sitting in Mudgies yesterday and overheard a conversation between the owner and pretty young lady. They were reading a letter together that was written by the Father of the Catholic Church nearby opposing something
that mudgies was doing. Now I know what.

Seems to me if they only want to serve beer and wine they should have at it. Mudgies doesn't strike me as a place that's going to get hog wild. Then again then again.

[ferndalien]

Isn't there a school and a playground so close that you could throw a piece of corned beef from Mudgies and hit them both.

If that is the case, and that is the cause of concern I would say it is a valid one.

There is a park across the street. That Mudgie's has taken over the maintenance of... [link]

[eastland]

I don't blame the church, school and neighbors. They already have to put up with drunks peeing on their lawns twice a year during the Parade and St. Patrick's Day. The M-Live article says "mixed drinks on special occasions." That means it's going to be a full-fledged bar.

[noise]

Deli's are typically known for their out-of-control nightlife.

[detroitgirl]

Tampa and Orlando have neighborhood bars in converted historic bungalows,mostly just allowed to serve beer and wine, they are nice ,the
crowd is mostly younger yuppies and not like a club sene at all ,just casual chic kinda thing , lots of opposition when they were allowed but caters to a whole different group and they blend in nicely now .

I'm sure in those cities, the police will come straight away if people are causing trouble. In Detroit, we just don't have the public safety support if a troublesome situation arises.

I sympathize with the objections only because Mudgies is located in a neighborhood. I love the place but I don't live next door. If a lot of people from the neighborhood--and over 50 strike me as a significant number--object to the liquor license, Mudgies should just drop this as far as I'm concerned.

As it was also pointed out, there is a playground across the street. As a parent [[and Corktown is very family friendly from what I can tell) I would certainly be very uncomfortable with that combo. Unfortunately, alcohol makes [[some) people very, very stupid.

An alternative, if they can swing it, is to open a second location on Michigan Avenue where, as far as I'm concerned they can serve all the alcohol they want.

[Wesley Mouch]

....snip....Mudgies should just drop this as far as I'm concerned....snip....

Or perhaps they can just move to Royal Oak. Money and business move to where they are wanted. RO is trying to increase the number of liquor licenses.

As it was also pointed out, there is a playground across the street. As a parent [[and Corktown is very family friendly from what I can tell) I would certainly be very uncomfortable with that combo. Unfortunately, alcohol makes [[some) people very, very stupid.

Mudgies is reportedly not trying to become a bar. But want to serve beer/wine with meals. There should be a way to allow beer/wine with dinner, but not hard liquor served by itself. Our liquor laws need updates. If they truly just want to serve beer/wine w/ meals there, this won't cause problems with the playground. [[I do understand the desire to not have drunks around children -- but I also want appropriate commerce in Corktown.)

[Richard]

I'm sure in those cities, the police will come straight away if people are causing trouble. In Detroit, we just don't have the public safety support if a troublesome situation arises.

I sympathize with the objections only because Mudgies is located in a neighborhood. I love the place but I don't live next door. If a lot of people from the neighborhood--and over 50 strike me as a significant number--object to the liquor license, Mudgies should just drop this as far as I'm concerned.

As it was also pointed out, there is a playground across the street. As a parent [[and Corktown is very family friendly from what I can tell) I would certainly be very uncomfortable with that combo. Unfortunately, alcohol makes [[some) people very, very stupid.

An alternative, if they can swing it, is to open a second location on Michigan Avenue where, as far as I'm concerned they can serve all the alcohol they want.

In your OP you asked for thoughts on the matter no offense it looks as though you are looking for support in opposition.

It seems as though that they are not per-say a club and all clubs are not the same,the places I mentioned do not really need a police presence because of the clientele,they are more of lets have a glass of wine and socialize and not so much as lets go get plastered falling down drunk.Most of the patrons live in the neighborhoods and invite friends to have a drink.The wives leave the hubby with the children and have a night out with the girls close by or visa versa, Within walking distance.

So I guess as a neighborhood it is a line between having a business that serves a purpose verses a vacant building.

Have they actually talked to Mudgies and maybe meet them 1/2 way?It does seem as though on the surface there was already an existing license so that may be an issue.

As a neighborhood you will be able to find fault in any business setting up shop,the trick is to get the neighborhood revenue support and find a happy medium.Seems as though if they are maintain the city park across the street that should count as something towards goodwill as I would assume that the residents also use the park?

Is the requirement to have a mix of food and alcohol say 70% food must be sold to 30% alcohol which in turn makes it a food venue that serves alcohol with the meal,and not a club per say.No mixed drinks and no live entertainment with band members over one.

How are they going to address your security concerns? Did you ask them?

If the neighborhood establishes acceptable guidelines that they would feel comfortable with and work with the business owners to reach some kind of happy medium it becomes a lot better as a neighborhood verses say for instance Mudgies saying fine we can move elsewhere even maybe downtown,then where will Corktown be?

Sorry WM ,posted at the same time.but same bases.

[poobert]

Big surprise there [[not). Some of the neighbors were against the private club "Ten Critics" getting their license, and ran them out of Corktown after they invested almost 300k into a derelict property. Then CVS proposed a store at the corner of MLK and Grand River, with extra lighting and a cool facade to add some character. And after the corporate developers told the crowd that they would indeed be selling liquor like almost every other CVS does, some of the neighbors started a bitchfest and CVS never came back. Corner still empty, and still gotta drive past livernois to hit up a 24hr store.

The attitude frequently on display is, "This particular [[insert here) doesn't fit our neighborhood," so read what you will between those lines. I believe the real culprits behind running a few of these businesses out and/or fighting mudgie's license app are a few well connected individuals, not always representative of the majority of the Corktown community.

The community politics at work in this part of Detroit can be heavy. Everybody seems to have their "vision" for Corktown, and some of those visions land on opposite ends of the desired development spectrum.

I lived in Corktown when CVS came to a community meeting about that particular location - this was BEFORE they announced anything about alcohol. Residents were still denouncing them and ridiculing them. Some were being downright hostile and insulting. The group from CVS was very professional and clearly personally eager to share their proposals but got shut down pretty quickly.

Take into account as well that Norm's Liquor Express is right accross the street, and that the location they proposed technically wasn't even in Corktown.

I am tired as shit with this country's attitude towards alcohol. It harkens back to our fanatical Calvinist heritage followed by Methodist revivals. Virtually anywhere else in the West people drink wine and beer in controlled amounts throughout the day. Here you have tee-totallers screaming about the evils of having a beer with a sandwich and on the other hand raging idiots who can't hold their alcohol and/or control themselves. Frankly I'd like to be able to go have a beer with lunch but would probably get fired for it, idiotically. Have wine with dinner and get pulled over in one of the jack-boot suburbs? Your life is over. Any chance of being a succesful citizen is eliminated.

Corktown needs to get over itself, anyway. Someone had a beer someone near a playground? The youth of America is doomed.

[stromberg2]

The place is too small to have bands. The place closes at 9 most nights, so no club. Greg would just like to serve a couple of beers and some wine. People won't go there to get hammered, they are going for deli sandwiches and a brew. Geez...

Stromberg2

[DetroitHabitater]

does anyone have a address/email address where we can write letters of support?

[poobert]

Photo of a recent protest by the residents outside of Mudgie's:

[eastland]

Deli's are typically known for their out-of-control nightlife.

How many deli's serve liquor? I've never been in one.
I doubt if they are going to the expenses of buying a license and paying extra liability insurance just to serve the odd beer here and there.

[Jimaz]

Photo of a recent protest by the residents outside of Mudgie's:

Wait. Are they implying that if you want to prevent them from kissing you, you have to take a drink? Why do they want to turn everyone into drunks?

[Richard]

How many deli's serve liquor? I've never been in one.
I doubt if they are going to the expenses of buying a license and paying extra liability insurance just to serve the odd beer here and there.

In small business every penny counts,if adding beer and wine adds to the bottom line to make it successful and not necessary a club.

My kids were partially raised next door to a full liquor bar,they had bathrooms so nobody was using the street and people hung out inside so you never even knew there was a bar there.

I have a friend that has a hand rolled cigar shop and they sell beer and wine as an added revenue source and also as a convenience to the customer,they come in and buy a cigar and have a beer while smoking it.The neighbors that live behind the building? They come over and have a beer and a cigar.

[detroitgirl]

In your OP you asked for thoughts on the matter no offense it looks as though you are looking for support in opposition.

None taken. Initially I honestly didn't know what to make of this but the more I thought about it, I realized that I sympathize more with the opposition. I still think that given the nature of Detroit's lack of public safety, serving alcohol in a more or less residential area is just asking for trouble. Mudgie's can have the best of intentions, but it has absolutely no control over patrons who come in who can't handle their liquor and then start trouble.

But what I think doesn't at all matter.

I like Mudgie's. I will still patronize them even if they get their license. I personally have no problem with them if they do serve alcohol. But then again, I don't live there. It's the people who live in the community who will have to live with the consequences.

The article I linked to stated that:
The city received 6 letters of opposition and a petition signed by 42 near-by residents and property owners

It sounds like pretty strong opposition to me.

And finally, on another point, some people are acting as if Corktown will fall to a swift demise if Mudgie's closes shop. I love their food so I would hate to see them go, but Corktown is on the rise now. Another business will come along, and if they want to serve alcohol they will know to keep it on the Avenue.