"I spent 4 years at UM and never set foot in Detroit"

**Patrick** · August-19-12, 12:39 PM

"I spent 4 years at UM AA and never set foot in Detroit"

The above quote was from a friend of mine who attended UM Ann Arbor in the early 2000s for undergrad. He was, like many UM students, from the east coast and not really familiar with the region. However, during his time at UM, he told me that he visited Chicago 15 or 20 times, without having any friends or knowing anyone there. hell, most of his friends never visited Detroit.

We have had countless arguments about Ann Arbor's relationship with Metro Detroit SE Michigan. I just wondered if there is really that much of a disconnect between AA and Detroit? Maybe I can even be more detailed and ask if there is a major disconnect between UM AA and Detroit.

Thoughts?

**The first time he actually visited Detroit was for a wedding this year...8 years after graduating from UM. He was blown away by the DIA and downtown.

**Lowell** · August-19-12, 01:05 PM

I'd say he didn't get much of an education. I feel sorry for him, but happy he finally made it.

**mikefmich** · August-19-12, 01:12 PM

Kinda dated in a way....there was a time when there was a large gap between the two with nothing but cornfields in between.

**dtowncitylover** · August-19-12, 01:48 PM

I'm of the young generation and even I remember that gap that mikefmich refers too. Ann Arbor seemed so far. And its only in the recent years that it truly has become a part of Metro Detroit [[especially if that commuter rail ever gets going). However, it still retains its own identity.

**313WX** · August-19-12, 02:00 PM

He probably meant Detroit proper.

Where as in Detroit you go to Royal Oak, Ferndale, Birmingham, etc. for a good time [[outside the city proper), when you go to Chicago you're going to be downtown or on the North Side [[within the city proper).

**Patrick** · August-19-12, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

He probably meant Detroit proper.

Where as in Detroit you go to Royal Oak, Ferndale, Birmingham, etc. for a good time [[outside the city proper), when you go to Chicago you're going to be downtown or on the North Side [[within the city proper).

Nope, not even Metro D...well, maybe once in Plymouth but that was the furthest east.

**Meddle** · August-19-12, 02:08 PM

I always thought 275 [[and whatever before it was built) was sort of the edge of the world for much of the population of A², at least the student/transient population.

The few times I was there, the feel was more yuppie/hippie/college town, more aligned with Lansing.

West of Livonia doesn't really like to be considered Metro Detroit.

**Bham1982** · August-19-12, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Nope, not even Metro D...well, maybe once in Plymouth but that was the furthest east.

I find this hard to believe. He never went to Metro Airport, Ikea, Canada, casinos, malls, nothing?

Ann Arbor is certainly a different animal from Metro Detroit, but I don't think it would be possible to live there four years and not [[at a minimum) pass through the tri-county area.

**wolverine** · August-19-12, 03:27 PM

When I attended Michigan 2003-2009, part of the problem was getting to and around Detroit. My first 3 years I didn't have a car. We simply couldn't get there unless we knew someone with a car. Getting to Chicago on the other hand was easy. Amtrak took us right to downtown where we had an abudance of frequent bus service, el trains, and Metra. We could go anywhere in the Chicagoland area we wanted for less than $7 and get there fast.

Take Amtrak to Detroit and you're pretty much stranded. I did it once before. It was the worst idea. I waited forever for buses that never came or even skipped me. It was just impossible getting around and really the only areas I could visit with some sort of ease were Midtown and Downtown simply by walking.

Eventually at the end of my senior year and all through graduate school I owned a car, but it seemed like my classmates were more interested in going to Chicago just because the quantity of things you could pack into a weekend were far greater.

**Meddle** · August-19-12, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I find this hard to believe. He never went to Metro Airport, Ikea, Canada, casinos, malls, nothing?

DTW is not Detroit, nor anywhere near it.

IKEA didn't exist when I was in the area, and even today I would probably not go there.

Nothing really to speak of in Canada or the Bandit Farms.

Malls? With Briarwood and Twelve Oaks among others, who needs Detroit?

As noted, Chicago is easy to get to as is Lansing and other areas.

I can see very easily not going to Detroit in 4 years at A².

**DetroitPlanner** · August-19-12, 03:51 PM

Sounds like a pretty arrogant thing to say. Par for the course I'm sorry to say. Lots of UM students think that AA is the center of the universe. I doubt you would get that same comment out of am EMU grad.

**Bham1982** · August-19-12, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

When I attended Michigan 2003-2009, part of the problem was getting to and around Detroit. My first 3 years I didn't have a car. We simply couldn't get there unless we knew someone with a car.
Getting to Chicago on the other hand was easy. A

Most Michigan students have cars, and for those who don't, it isn't exactly difficult to find a ride, whether you're going in either direction. I don't think that's a big issue.

And the 3 daily Amtraks in either direction are pretty limited. Obviously there's a big transit difference once you get in Chicago relative to Detroit, though.

I always thought Chicago had pretty poor connections from its train stations relative to cities in other parts of the country [[Union Station and Ogilvie Station both lack CTA rail service, and I suspect most visitors just take a cab or get picked up by car), but obviously relative to Detroit, there's no point in even comparing.

**ismoakrack** · August-19-12, 04:02 PM

I went to UM during the same time as the OP's friend, and no one I knew ever wanted to come to Detroit, even just to explore. Most were from Metro Detroit, and had parents who were terrified of Detroit and forbade their kids from going there for any reason. They all had the attitude that no one lived there and there was nothing to do. Folks I knew who grew up in Ann Arbor seemed totally oblivious to Metro Detroit's existence as a whole. They were mostly fans of cities like Austin, Portland and Denver. Most didn't seem to care for Chicago even.

**Patrick** · August-19-12, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by ismoakrack

I went to UM during the same time as the OP's friend, and no one I knew ever wanted to come to Detroit, even just to explore. Most were from Metro Detroit, and had parents who were terrified of Detroit and forbade their kids from going there for any reason. They all had the attitude that no one lived there and there was nothing to do. Folks I knew who grew up in Ann Arbor seemed totally oblivious to Metro Detroit's existence as a whole. They were mostly fans of cities like Austin, Portland and Denver. Most didn't seem to care for Chicago even.

I actually noticed that view as well with UM folks from AA. The love for Chicago seems to be a major thing at MSU since damn near all their grads end up in the Windy City. UM...eh, not so much.

**Bham1982** · August-19-12, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

DTW is not Detroit, nor anywhere near it.

Well this here pretty much explains the issue. You don't seem to understand that "Detroit" refers to "Metro Detroit".

Slavish adherenace to city proper only, in the context of modern-day cities, is pretty silly. If I visit Paris and stay in La Defense, or visit LA and stay in Beverly Hills, should I be adamant that I am NOT in Paris or LA or wherever? Sydney, AUS, is technically a small town in population. 95% of the population is outside Sydney.

Originally Posted by Meddle

I can see very easily not going to Detroit in 4 years at A².

I can definitely see why folks wanting a city weekend go to Chicago and not Detroit, but the fact is you did visit Detroit frequently, you just didn't do "city things", so you weren't downtown.

And no, Chicago isn't easy to get to from AA relative to Detroit. One hour isn't easier than five hours. The difference is in the type of appeal.

**Guideboat** · August-19-12, 04:43 PM

I would say it is a fairly recent trend for anyone outside of Michigan, whether a person or newspaper/media source to show any love for Detroit. When the only image a person received was of a rust-belt city poster child, or "murder capital" I'm not surprised their visits out of Ann Arbor tended toward Chicago. Let's hope that more recent out-of-state undergrads find Detroit attractive in some way.

**Lowell** · August-19-12, 05:42 PM

Ann Arbor has been a part of Detroit [[not to be confused with the City of Detroit) for a long time. There has been continuous urban sprawl to Ann Arbor via the Ypsilanti corridor for decades. The other parts are filling in as I write. The Detroit sprawl edge is far beyond AA.

If a UM student does not experience the City of Detroit and its culture I feel very sorry for her or him as if the student is somewhere between ignorant and deprived.

UM to its credit created a Detroit presence in the Orchestra Place bldg a few years ago and has turned its eyes more toward Detroit. Add to that the fact that Detroit is ultra hip nationally and internationally now and I will guarantee that there are a lot more UM students setting foot in the D.

**Wheels** · August-19-12, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Most Michigan students have cars

have cars.

That is a ridicules statement. There are over 41,000 students at U of M. I doubt if 25% have cars at school.

Shollin · August-19-12, 06:04 PM

LOL nothing to speak of in Canada. I'm sure 19 and 20 year olds would enjoy Canada.

**Bham1982** · August-19-12, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

have cars.

That is a ridicules statement. There are over 41,000 students at U of M. I doubt if 25% have cars at school.

I don't think that's true. I think most students have cars, and think almost all have access to someone's cars.

The vehicle ownership rate in MI is very high. It's hard for me to believe that there's some huge exception of U-M bound students. Obviously there are folks who come from families who can't afford cars, there are international students for which it's impractical, and plenty of undergrads, especially first-years, where there's no point to bringing directly to campus.

**ThisIsForTheHeart** · August-19-12, 07:05 PM

If it wasn't for Detroit, UofM would not exist.

**iheartthed** · August-19-12, 07:07 PM

When I was at Michigan I knew plenty of people who never set foot in Detroit, or only went once for the Auto Show. Most classmates that I knew from other states/countries almost never went east of the airport, yet it seemed like everyone had been to Chicago at least once.

Like Wolverine said, Detroit is a very hard place to get around if you don't have a car, and that most certainly factored into why so many students don't bother to visit.

**iheartthed** · August-19-12, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I don't think that's true. I think most students have cars, and think almost all have access to someone's cars.

The vehicle ownership rate in MI is very high. It's hard for me to believe that there's some huge exception of U-M bound students. Obviously there are folks who come from families who can't afford cars, there are international students for which it's impractical, and plenty of undergrads, especially first-years, where there's no point to bringing directly to campus.

Didn't you go to Michigan? I seriously doubt that more than 25% of the students owned cars when I was there in the early to mid-Aughties. And it was even more uncommon for a student who wasn't from Michigan to own a car. The car ownership today is probably far less now that they've gotten more restrictive with parking permits on campus.

**Gorath** · August-19-12, 07:15 PM

http://parents.umich.edu/studentlife/pts.php

Parking

Parking for students at the University of Michigan is extremely limited, and the University recommends that students leave their cars at home. With the easy availability of free buses on campus and in the city of Ann Arbor, most students find that bringing cars to campus is not usually necessary, and often not worth the expense and the effort.

Freshmen and sophomores are not eligible to apply for any parking permits offered through U-M Parking & Transportation Services. Juniors and seniors are eligible to apply for permits, but the demand exceeds the supply. In addition, most permits do not allow for “storage” parking [[defined as leaving your vehicle continuously parked in a lot or structure for periods greater than 24 hours).

**Bham1982** · August-19-12, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gorath

http://parents.umich.edu/studentlife/pts.php

Yeah, I know all this, but I didn't write "most undergrads have cars in U-M parking lots" I wrote that most U-M students have cars in Ann Arbor.

Most U-M students are grad students, not undergrads, and most upperclass undergrads don't live on campus. So, for the signficant majority of U-M students, the undergrad parking limitations are irrevelent.

My point wasn't to debate U-M students with cars, but to point out the limitations of transit in dictating weekened trips.