Is livonia attacking again!?

DetroitDad · June-24-09, 07:25 PM

The suburban tanks are parked en mass, and appear to be poised to attack.

Seriously, this is one of only a handful of days that it seems all of the suburbs and city descend upon Downtown Detroit in unison. It never fails to amaze me to see this many people walking around. It seems like this years crowds are much bigger, but I could be wrong. Enjoy the fireworks guys!

http://jagodzinski.wordpress.com/200...eworks-crowds/

DetroitDad · June-24-09, 07:26 PM

Thank God we got rid of all those old useless buildings so we could accommodate all the cars for a couple days out of the year. I can almost picture a Walmart somewhere on that horizon...

MIRepublic · June-24-09, 09:43 PM

Damn. That end of downtown is literally a parking lot How incredibly depressing.

DetroitDad · June-24-09, 09:57 PM

Now imagine those cars trying to get on the freeway all at once. I predict being kept awake by car horns for at least another hour.

Anyways, beautiful fireworks Detroit. Good show!

**R8RBOB** · June-24-09, 11:20 PM

The blogger has a point about mass transit. Lack of mass transit in one the largest metropolitian area has hurt Metro Detroit. The fact that we do not have a train or light rail connecting Downtown Detroit to Metro Airport is a crime. If Minneapolis can have a rail that goes from the airport to downtown MPLS, Detroit should have one for decades now. Using downtown Detroit as the center of the universe, there should be a connection from Detroit to Pontiac, from Detroit to Mt. Clemens and from Detroit to Ann Arbor with DTW in the middle. Oh, there is links along these main lines but you get the point.

DetroitDad · June-24-09, 11:41 PM

They eventually turned Grand River into a six to seven lane one way street, apparently.

MIRepublic · June-25-09, 12:12 AM

Thanks for the pictures, really, but boy are they are depressing.

**jjw** · June-25-09, 08:16 AM

Those pictures are amazing. All of those cars and I hardly saw a person walking. Unreal

**RickBeall** · June-25-09, 08:44 AM

Beautiful photography!

**iheartthed** · June-25-09, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by MIRepublic

Damn. That end of downtown is literally a parking lot How incredibly depressing.

Can you believe that people are actually advocating that the city tear down more buildings? What's the definition of insane again? Doing the same thing and expecting different results...

**pkbroch** · June-25-09, 10:13 AM

Sean of Detroit is back, Maybe?

**bailey** · June-25-09, 11:06 AM

The blogger has a point about mass transit. Lack of mass transit in one the largest metropolitian area has hurt Metro Detroit. The fact that we do not have a train or light rail connecting Downtown Detroit to Metro Airport is a crime.

So, going by the point of the article, the photos and the comments on this thread....the fact that the traffic going into and out of the city is only this bad on a handful of nights a year....we should invest billions in mass transit from downtown to the airport?

I guess we're going to ignore why it is traffic is only bad when there are multiple sporting events at the same time or a large event like the fireworks.

**wolverine** · June-25-09, 11:10 AM

I wonder when poeple will begin to realize that mass transit is not and should not be tied to congestion relief. Any reduction in downtown congestion during major events would be considered a positive benefit if such a system existed, but not one of the goals for transit.

**iheartthed** · June-25-09, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

So, going by the point of the article, the photos and the comments on this thread....the fact that the traffic going into and out of the city is only this bad on a handful of nights a year....we should invest billions in mass transit from downtown to the airport?

I guess we're going to ignore why it is traffic is only bad when there are multiple sporting events at the same time or a large event like the fireworks.

No, the point is that since there is no real mass transit system going in and out of downtown, then having that many people downtown at once is only feasible for a handful of days/night per year.

**bailey** · June-25-09, 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey

So, going by the point of the article, the photos and the comments on this thread....the fact that the traffic going into and out of the city is only this bad on a handful of nights a year....we should invest billions in mass transit from downtown to the airport?

I guess we're going to ignore why it is traffic is only bad when there are multiple sporting events at the same time or a large event like the fireworks.

No, the point is that since there is no real mass transit system going in and out of downtown, then having that many people downtown at once is only feasible for a handful of days/night per year.

But the question asking why in a metro region of 4.5 million people the central city only experiences gridlock a handful of times a year isn't addressed.

Supposing the most expansive of mass transit options on the table today were implemented tomorrow... would it be used as anything other than a parking shuttle for suburbanites on special event days? I mean, I'm sure the people mover was jammed last night. But does a handful of days operating at or near capacity justify it's existence?

The prevailing logic on this board is that if we get light rail up woodward or to the airport, suddenly the suburbs will empty and there will be this mass migration back to detroit.

DetroitDad · June-25-09, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by pkbroch

Sean of Detroit is back, Maybe?

Off topic, not as far as I know, but he could be. It's not a secret who I am. Most of you good people met me at the DetroitYES picnic. I don't have my profile public mainly just to make things a little harder for the clowns and kiddies who don't like my posts to harass me or mine.

**GREENTROIT** · June-25-09, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

The prevailing logic on this board is that if we get light rail up woodward or to the airport, suddenly the suburbs will empty and there will be this mass migration back to detroit.

I'm not sure if the majority sees mass transit as a save all for the city. Certainly our city has much more to do than to build some rail. In fact I don't think mass transit would convince anybody to move back into Detroit. Suburbanites will have an easier time getting to work, to events, to the airport, etc. So it would probably just be an added convenience to their life outside of Detroit.

I think rail would be a great benefit to everyone in Metro Detroit, regardless of where they live.

DetroitDad · June-25-09, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

But the question asking why in a metro region of 4.5 million people the central city only experiences gridlock a handful of times a year isn't addressed.

Supposing the most expansive of mass transit options on the table today were implemented tomorrow... would it be used as anything other than a parking shuttle for suburbanites on special event days? I mean, I'm sure the people mover was jammed last night. But does a handful of days operating at or near capacity justify it's existence?

The prevailing logic on this board is that if we get light rail up woodward or to the airport, suddenly the suburbs will empty and there will be this mass migration back to detroit.

Mass transit is viewed as part of a much larger package of urbanism that Detroit must provide if it wants to attract an urban crowd and prepare for the economic transition that lies ahead.

DetroitDad · June-25-09, 01:25 PM

Actually, the Illitch owned lots seem like they are as full as yesterday. Does anyone know what is going on today?

**bailey** · June-25-09, 01:31 PM

tigers game. 1:05 start.

**iheartthed** · June-25-09, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

But the question asking why in a metro region of 4.5 million people the central city only experiences gridlock a handful of times a year isn't addressed.

Supposing the most expansive of mass transit options on the table today were implemented tomorrow... would it be used as anything other than a parking shuttle for suburbanites on special event days? I mean, I'm sure the people mover was jammed last night. But does a handful of days operating at or near capacity justify it's existence?

The prevailing logic on this board is that if we get light rail up woodward or to the airport, suddenly the suburbs will empty and there will be this mass migration back to detroit.

The answer is that you will never have gridlock downtown on more than a handful of days per year until you figure out a way to move people in and out in an efficient matter [[i.e. build a mass transit system). So you can sit and play with your navel worrying about will anyone use it until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that if you don't build it then no one will ever use it. Now if you think Detroit, and by extension Metro Detroit, is DOA, and thus will never experience any sort of rebound, then that's an entirely different discussion.

What you seem to be advocating is akin to waiting to see how many people show up at a field intending to catch a flight before you decide to build an airport.

**bailey** · June-25-09, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The answer is that you will never have gridlock downtown on more than a handful of days per year until you figure out a way to move people in and out in an efficient matter [[i.e. build a mass transit system). So you can sit and play with your navel worrying about will anyone use it until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that if you don't build it then no one will ever use it. ...

Well, the fact also remains that if you don't build what is needed, no one will ever use it. We don;t need a street level people mover/parking shuttle. we need coherent mass transit. We need to get people from where they are to where they want to go. Is Light rail from new center to hart plaza or new center to the airport going to stop the gridlock on double booked game days or fireworks nights?

What you seem to be advocating is akin to waiting to see how many people show up at a field intending to catch a flight before you decide to build an airport.

But what you're advocating [[well, maybe not you per se..but the various and numerous threads on light/heavy/elevated/maglev trains) is building McNamara Terminal to service a handful of flights a year, when what we really need is to fix up city airport.

**iheartthed** · June-25-09, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Well, the fact also remains that if you don't build what is needed, no one will ever use it. We don;t need a street level people mover/parking shuttle. we need coherent mass transit. We need to get people from where they are to where they want to go. Is Light rail from new center to hart plaza or new center to the airport going to stop the gridlock on double booked game days or fireworks nights?

But what you're advocating [[well, maybe not you per se..but the various and numerous threads on light/heavy/elevated/maglev trains) is building McNamara Terminal to service a handful of flights a year, when what we really need is to fix up city airport.

No, what most people are advocating is building the airport, which doesn't yet exist in Detroit.

**bailey** · June-25-09, 02:34 PM

we don't have buses?

**iheartthed** · June-25-09, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

we don't have buses?

One bus moves roughly 60 people at max. By contrast, one NYC subway train moves roughly 2,000 people at max capacity. So to answer your question, yes Detroit has buses. But Detroit doesn't have a mass transit system.