Winery on Belle Isle?

**TexasT** · August-16-12, 02:13 PM

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...state_con.html

A ten-acre vineyard near the light house, the casino turned into a wine tasting space...the first urban vineyard of its kind.

**jpbollma** · August-16-12, 02:28 PM

I think it would be fantastic!!!

**JBMcB** · August-16-12, 02:38 PM

That sounds like a cool idea, but SE Michigan doesn't have quite the right climate for a production vineyard, I think. The problem is the scorching hot summers, which annihilate grape crops. Grape vines are delicate plants, and favor very temperate and calm climates. They don't even like wind that much, which would be a pretty big problem at the lighthouse site.

They could grow hops and other grains and do a brewery/distillery, though

**jpbollma** · August-16-12, 02:42 PM

This definitely needs to happen. The state needs to take this island and charge a fee. Replant flower gardens, update the conservatory, reopen the children's zoo and aquarium. Allow a winery, a horse stable, a cafe, refurbish the concert area and throw a butterfly house on there and perhaps a small carnival area with a few rides. Refurbish the magnificent fountains and bring back kayaks. Presto, a top tourist destination for the midwest that would bring in money hand over fist for the state and the city. So, of course the city opposes it.

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 02:55 PM

They keep trying to come up with ideas to develop Belle Isle. Somehow, to get developers in there to turn it into a school for boating, or a green campus with a high-rise dorm, or this, or that. And it's not about improving Belle Isle. It's all about making money. Somebody else, coming in, using a public asset, to make money.

For them.

It always sounds good at first, though.

[[Oh, and, it's a good thing he wants to use our public park. There's certainly no vacant land left in the city anywhere ...

)

**antongast** · August-16-12, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

Presto, a top tourist destination for the midwest that would bring in money hand over fist for the state and the city. So, of course the city opposes it.

Why does everything always have to be about making money? Can't we just have some things that exist purely for our enjoyment?

**corktownyuppie** · August-16-12, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Why does everything always have to be about making money? Can't we just have some things that exist purely for our enjoyment?

Generally, the things that exist purely for our enjoyment actually cost money. So in order to have those things, we need to have other things that make money. We have too little of the latter and way too much of the former.

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Why does everything always have to be about making money? Can't we just have some things that exist purely for our enjoyment?

No! We've got to make money HAND OVER FIST!

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:13 PM

Actually, when the head of parks was asked about Kilpatrick's plan to sell off 90 of them, he said, essentially, "Why not? They don't bring in any money!"

Which makes me think, this may take more than one primer on the purpose of public parks...

**Patrick** · August-16-12, 03:14 PM

A winery? Screw that....build a brewery and call it Brew Isle.

**Johnnny5** · August-16-12, 03:15 PM

You guys can rest easy as "Making money" would be the least likely result from operating a small winery on the island. LOL.

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:24 PM

Already-successful businessmen want to be given precious city recreational land for for-profit business in city where tens of thousands of vacant lots are screaming to be put back on tax rolls.

Yeah, obviously that's what they want. I want me some free soil too! And I ain't even rich!

**JBMcB** · August-16-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Somebody else, coming in, using a public asset, to make money.

For them.

The way this works in sane-land, is they come in, build and operate something, then pay property tax, leasing fees, and grounds maintenance fees for use of the public land. Then the city takes that money and uses it to fix up the place.

Of course, Detroit is crazy-pants-town, and someone's brother will get the contract and the fees collected will be used to pay new hires who are cousins of someone else to do nothing.

**corktownyuppie** · August-16-12, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Already-successful businessmen want to be given precious city recreational land for for-profit business in city where tens of thousands of vacant lots are screaming to be put back on tax rolls.

Yeah, obviously that's what they want. I want me some free soil too! And I ain't even rich!

In fairness, he's not opening up a tool and die factory. To say that he would benefit at the cost to the public is a stretch. The winery would also add value to the island, increase tourism, attract more visitors, etc.

I for one would enjoy it more.

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

The way this works in sane-land, is they come in, build and operate something, then pay property tax, leasing fees, and grounds maintenance fees for use of the public land. Then the city takes that money and uses it to fix up the place.

I guess that's the sort of arrangement that makes sense.

At least now that every empty lot in Detroit has been built out, returned to the tax rolls and full of tax-paying residents, we can begin to consider using our precious urban parkland for agriculture. It's not like there's any land left in all of Michigan for growing grapes, you know?

**corktownyuppie** · August-16-12, 03:29 PM

p.s. how is this any different from the DYC and the DBC with their space on the island. Imagine how cool it would be with a vibrant DYC, DBC, winery, restaurants! There's an ice cream shop and a cafe on the riverfront...it helps pay to make the riverfront nice.

I don't see the problem here!

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

In fairness, he's not opening up a tool and die factory. To say that he would benefit at the cost to the public is a stretch. The winery would also add value to the island, increase tourism, attract more visitors, etc.

This ain't Sim City. Belle Isle is a park. It's there for the enjoyment of the people. Why the Sam Hill is it desirable to make Belle Isle into a goddamn international attraction?

**jpbollma** · August-16-12, 03:29 PM

Well, every other major park in the country's largest cities has private-public partnership. Making money on this island would be a good thing because you can tax them and redirect the tax funds to upkeep. Neither the state nor the city could ever afford to rehab a 982 acre island to it's former glory alone. So basically, you can leave it as it is, make it a state park which will of course improve it but not take it to it's full potential, or allow a couple small profit making entities on the island and tax them. I really don't see the big deal? You guys make it sound like the whole island will have apartments on it. A winery in other derelict areas would be pointless. People would love to drive to a well maintained island with a lighthouse and riverfront view for wine tastings. Clearly the last thing Detroit should be worried about is someone making money. Oh the horror, a tax base!! They want to take our garbage dump er I mean our Jewel!

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:30 PM

Fine. I'll be all in favor of this.

As soon as they let me put my urban farm in Shain Park.

----------------------

"But it'll be an attraction!"

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

Well, every other major park in the country's largest cities has private-public partnership. Making money on this island would be a good thing because you can tax them and redirect the tax funds to upkeep. Neither the state nor the city could ever afford to rehab a 982 acre island to it's former glory alone. So basically, you can leave it as it is, make it a state park which will of course improve it but not take it to it's full potential, or allow a couple small profit making entities on the island and tax them. I really don't see the big deal? You guys make it sound like the whole island will have apartments on it. A winery in other derelict areas would be pointless. People would love to drive to a well maintained island with a lighthouse and riverfront view for wine tastings. Clearly the last thing Detroit should be worried about is someone making money. Oh the horror, a tax base!! They want to take our garbage dump er I mean our Jewel!

OK, when you say "garbage dump" you disqualify yourself.

I wish I could press a button and trot out every "profit-making" plan that's been proposed for Belle Isle over the years.

As for this wino, why doesn't he pull a Hantz and put for the land? Oh, he wants some sweetheart deal with the support of the Michigan Economic Development Corporation? Oh, that's fine then. Go ahead. Do whatever you want.

Because this is Detroit. We should change our motto to "At least dat''s sumptin!"

**Richard** · August-16-12, 03:34 PM

"I think we should have a vineyard and winery on Belle Isle. I supported that proposal," City Council President Charles Pugh told Mlive. "We've got a putt-putt golf course on Belle Isle, all of these stupid things, that we could have soemthing that would be an attraction to Belle Isle, something unique about Detroit, an urban vineyard and winery."

I like putt-putt golf , I guess I just like doing stupid family oriented stuff and I guess Belle Isle is not supposed to be family oriented.Having a bit of tact is not a requirement for CC apparently.

**Detroitnerd** · August-16-12, 03:36 PM

If I were an outstate businessperson lobbying for a sweetheart deal that got me 40 acres of city land, I might just be clueless enough to enlist the help of Charles Pugh.

**jpbollma** · August-16-12, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

OK, when you say "garbage dump" you disqualify yourself.

I wish I could press a button and trot out every "profit-making" plan that's been proposed for Belle Isle over the years.

As for this wino, why doesn't he pull a Hantz and put for the land? Oh, he wants some sweetheart deal with the support of the Michigan Economic Development Corporation? Oh, that's fine then. Go ahead. Do whatever you want.

Because this is Detroit. We should change our motto to "At least dat''s sumptin!"

Well, I am glad you are the arbitrator on who is qualified to speak on Belle Isle lol. It IS a garbage dump. There is garbage everywhere, everything on it is either falling apart, closed, or boarded up. People are tactless and loud, the bathrooms are disgusting, and no one would step foot there in the evening. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as a garbage dump.

**corktownyuppie** · August-16-12, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

This ain't Sim City. Belle Isle is a park. It's there for the enjoyment of the people. Why the Sam Hill is it desirable to make Belle Isle into a goddamn international attraction?

I agree that it's there for the enjoyment of the people. And if that's its mission, it is failing miserably for a city with 700,000 people and a metro area with 4 million in Detroit and almost the same in Windsor.

But you raise a more interesting point. What if running Detroit would be like running Sim City? Hmm...