Mack Avenue History

[p69rrh51]

Packman41 an image of Jackson Junior High. Where did you go to elementary School. I spent some time at Clark and St. Matthews in the late 60's.

[Packman41]

Hello p69rrh51:

Went to Carstens Elementary at Coplin and E. Vernor and after JJH I went to Cass Tech instead of my local high school, Southeastern. Some of the teachers I had at Carstens and Jackson were the same teachers my mother had when she attended those schools 3 decades earlier.

Wonder why Mack Ave. is dead? Look at what [[does not) surround it - PEOPLE. Look at streets such as Eastlawn - nearly devoid of homes. But, then look a few blocks to the east, at Alter Road. All you see is rooftops = people.

Again, it did not have to be this way.

[p69rrh51]

An image of Hattie M. Carstens Elementary School taken this past week.

[Kathleen]

I spent some time at Clark and St. Matthews in the late 60's.

I attended Clark for kindergarten in 1962-1963, then St. Clare from 1963-1971. I lived on Three Mile Dr. between Bremen and Waveney. You?

[p69rrh51]

I attended Clark for kindergarten in 1962-1963, then St. Clare from 1963-1971. I lived on Three Mile Dr. between Bremen and Waveney. You?

Clark 1967-1968, St. Matthews 1968-1969, St. Paul's 1969-1976. My parents first home was 4875 Harvard 3 doors off E. Warren, their second home was 315 Grosse Pointe Boulevard from 1969-1980. Mrs. Bone for a kindergarden teacher?

[Bham1982]

Why is it that Mack avenue had deterioated over the past 50 years while streets such as West Vernon had kept most of it's storefronts and is still an avenue with high walkability.

I wouldn't characterize West Vernor as "kept most of its storefronts" and "high walkability", but you're right that it's certainly much healthier than Mack.

Vernor is probably more successful for two reasons- lots of Mexican immigrants, and I doubt much was looted/burned during the riots [[most hard-core riot damage was done in African American neighborhoods, and this part of SW has never been African American).

[p69rrh51]

I wouldn't characterize West Vernor as "kept most of its storefronts" and "high walkability", but you're right that it's certainly much healthier than Mack.

Vernor is probably more successful for two reasons- lots of Mexican immigrants, and I doubt much was looted/burned during the riots [[most hard-core riot damage was done in African American neighborhoods, and this part of SW has never been African American).

Neither was this area damaged that much by the riots. Almost all of the deterioration started in the early to mid 70's.

[MidTownMs]

Packman41 an image of Jackson Junior High. Where did you go to elementary School. I spent some time at Clark and St. Matthews in the late 60's.

I went to Keating Elementary from 1954-1960, Jackson Jr.High 1960-1963, Southeastern High 1963-1966.

[scbaker]

I lived on Mack Ave. & Barham from 1951 - 1955 and attended Clark Elementary school. I lived on Eastlawn St. from 1955- 1962 and attended Jackson Jr. Hi and Southeastern. I graduated from S.E. in 1961.

The neighborhood was vibrant and bustling with activity. Every home seemed to be occupied and were very well maintained. I worked part time at the Kresge store on Mack at Chalmers when I was a teenager. My best friend and I would stop at Cunningham's after school [[Jackson) and order a 5 cent coke at the soda fountain. If we had the money we would grab a 5 or 10 cent bag of potato chips. As we got older we spent a lot of time at Chalmers Lunch sitting in the booth, sipping cokes and playing the table jukebox. The Uptown theatre was located on the NE corner of Mack & Chalmers. There was a Red Robin dress store, Chevrolet dealership, a couple of shoe stores, a jewelry store, a bank and various other stores that I cannot remember. There was a church on the NW corner of Mack & Eastlawn and the A&P was on the NE corner.


Johnny's Mobil station was on the corner of Newport St. & Mack Ave. My dad bought all of his gas there and I did the same when I started driving in 1959. Johnny was a great guy and delighted in teasing me about one thing or another. Tragically he was robbed & murdered at his station in 1983. Here is an article about Johnny & 2 others who were murdered at their gas stations in the same week in 1983:
http://crimeindetroit.com/Documents/...s%20Deaths.pdf

[p69rrh51]

An image of Southeastern.

[Packman41]

Wow! Thank you SCBAKER for providing that link.

http://crimeindetroit.com/Documents/...s%20Deaths.pdf

XEQUAR and anyone else who wants to know why Mack Avenue [[or Detroit for that matter) needs to click onto that link. It tells of the murder

These honest, hardworking people, that each gave back to the community, were killed over a few dollars by a culture that finds it easier to take than to produce.

And as the article says, "Their deaths left their communities poorer."

[Hermod]

I went to Keating Elementary from 1954-1960, Jackson Jr.High 1960-1963, Southeastern High 1963-1966.

Anthony Wayne Elementary School 1944-1951
Jackson Intermediate School 1951-1953
Denby High School 1953-1954
Rochester High School 1954-1957

[scbaker]

Wow! Thank you SCBAKER for providing that link.

http://crimeindetroit.com/Documents/...s%20Deaths.pdf

XEQUAR and anyone else who wants to know why Mack Avenue [[or Detroit for that matter) needs to click onto that link. It tells of the murder

These honest, hardworking people, that each gave back to the community, were killed over a few dollars by a culture that finds it easier to take than to produce.

And as the article says, "Their deaths left their communities poorer."

I was more than happy to provide the link. I would like the whole world to know of the horrifying crimes that took place in our beloved neighborhood.

I only learned of Johnny's murder about 2 years ago from a woman that I met on the internet. Once hearing the news, I immediately did a google search to find more details of this hideous crime. Low and behold that article popped up.

In the late 70's the intersection of Mack & Chalmers became known as "crack alley". The people that stayed too long in the neighborhood had to barricade themselves inside of their homes. Still they were not safe because so many homes were fire bombed. My internet friend's parents stayed too long and were finally forced to flee like thieves in the middle of the night. They were heartbroken to be forced out in that manner but at least they escaped with their lives.

[Kathleen]

Mrs. Bone for a kindergarden teacher?

I remember Mrs. Bone!! Also Miss Altmiks [[phonetic). They were there for years!!!

[p69rrh51]

I remember Mrs. Bone!! Also Miss Altmiks [[phonetic). They were there for years!!!

I think forever and day! Mrs. Bone lived on Everts over by Dominican about half a block from where my aunt lived at the time. I remember my mom dragging me over to her home to see her one day.

[scbaker]

One of the stores was S. S. Kresge. You should check the sanborn maps from the period, they should fill in the blanks.

Do the sanborn maps list the name of the businesses that were located along that strip during a specific time frame? The only images that I have of the old business district is what I have stored in my memory. And of course over time those images are becoming very faint. I would love to reconstruct that business strip even if it is just on paper.

My friend and I have searched the internet high and low for any images of the business district at Mack & Chalmers. None seem to exist accept for the WSU picture taken in 1938. Unfortunately, Cunningham's is the only store that is clearly visable in the shot.

[p69rrh51]

Do the sanborn maps list the name of the businesses that were located along that strip during a specific time frame? The only images that I have of the old business district is what I have stored in my memory. And of course over time those images are becoming very faint. I would love to reconstruct that business strip even if it is just on paper.

My friend and I have searched the internet high and low for any images of the business district at Mack & Chalmers. None seem to exist accept for the WSU picture taken in 1938. Unfortunately, Cunningham's is the only store that is clearly visable in the shot.

I have looked at an original Sanborn insurance map which shows all existed buildings for the year of the map, not the online maps which seem to have missing items.

[xequar]

Thank you all for your excellent stuff! The stories, the photos, the articles, everything is exceptionally helpful, so thank you so much! I've pulled copies of the Sanborn maps, which at least show the buildings and their construction materials [[and if they're car dealers or gas stations), which helps at least show how much used to be going on. There are some great resources out there, and I thank you for helping point me toward some of them and being amongst them! Thanks to your help, I'm starting to get a better idea of how things went over the last 60ish years in this area. Of course, other suggestions for collections and resources or anything else is very welcome! The personal perspectives add so much richness!

[MidTownMs]

Do the sanborn maps list the name of the businesses that were located along that strip during a specific time frame? The only images that I have of the old business district is what I have stored in my memory. And of course over time those images are becoming very faint. I would love to reconstruct that business strip even if it is just on paper.

My friend and I have searched the internet high and low for any images of the business district at Mack & Chalmers. None seem to exist accept for the WSU picture taken in 1938. Unfortunately, Cunningham's is the only store that is clearly visable in the shot.

The only remnants left of the Mack & Chalmers Shopping Center is the tall sign on the corner that says...Mack & Chalmers Shopping Center.

[MikeM]

I have a Polk directory from 1967 that will list all the businesses along Mack. I'm out of town for a couple of days but when I get back I will post a copy.

[p69rrh51]

I have a Polk directory from 1967 that will list all the businesses along Mack. I'm out of town for a couple of days but when I get back I will post a copy.

And there are the directories at the Burton Collection.

[Jahmann]

Going off-topic to indulge my present enjoyment … I’ve looked at various Detroit boards and forums from time to time over a period of years. Most seemed heavily populated by westsiders, fine folks all, no doubt, but I missed references to familiar far east side streets and landmarks. I’ve joined DY now, because many posters are current or former eastsiders.

Mack Ave west of Alter was outside my range, so I’ve naught to offer the OP, but I explored widely in 1960 and ’61 by bicycle from my boyhood home on Kensington near Chandler Park Dr. Attended Finney school, where we used the auditorium and gym at Cannon Rec Center, though my younger sister was sent to Stellwagen after Finney was changed to a high school. Catholic kids in the neighborhood went to St. Matthew.

Warren Ave was our main commercial artery. I had aunts on Courville and Chatsworth, and a grandmother on Three Mile Dr at one point. Our neighborhoods weren’t known as East English Village and Morningside at the time [[or if they were, no one told me.)

Well, I just dropped in to thank you who’ve led me to replay some of those pedal-powered explorations in my head. A happy-but-sad experience, kinda like hailing from mid-century Detroit is, really.

[scbaker]

I have a Polk directory from 1967 that will list all the businesses along Mack. I'm out of town for a couple of days but when I get back I will post a copy.

Fantastic! Thank you MikeM!

[scbaker]

And there are the directories at the Burton Collection.

Don't you have to physically go to the library to view the Burton Collection? Sort of hard to do if you live 2,000 miles away.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would love to reconstruct that neighborhood even if it is just on on paper. But, I have to do it through the internet or snail mail.

[scbaker]

Going off-topic to indulge my present enjoyment … I’ve looked at various Detroit boards and forums from time to time over a period of years. Most seemed heavily populated by westsiders, fine folks all, no doubt, but I missed references to familiar far east side streets and landmarks. I’ve joined DY now, because many posters are current or former eastsiders.

Mack Ave west of Alter was outside my range, so I’ve naught to offer the OP, but I explored widely in 1960 and ’61 by bicycle from my boyhood home on Kensington near Chandler Park Dr. Attended Finney school, where we used the auditorium and gym at Cannon Rec Center, though my younger sister was sent to Stellwagen after Finney was changed to a high school. Catholic kids in the neighborhood went to St. Matthew.

Warren Ave was our main commercial artery. I had aunts on Courville and Chatsworth, and a grandmother on Three Mile Dr at one point. Our neighborhoods weren’t known as East English Village and Morningside at the time [[or if they were, no one told me.)

Well, I just dropped in to thank you who’ve led me to replay some of those pedal-powered explorations in my head. A happy-but-sad experience, kinda like hailing from mid-century Detroit is, really.

I have had the same experience on the various forums. Not many if any Eastsiders.

Not only are there Eastsiders on this forum but many of the posters are excellent researchers. I have seen people post an old family photo from the 20's with buildings in the background asking if anyone recognized the neighborhood. To my amazement and the delight of the picture poster someone on here is able to name the neighborhood through their research. How cool is that?

I am also thrilled that xequar has an interest in Mack Ave. on the lower east side. Someone is actually interested in our old obscure little neighborhood. Not many people are.