Joe Louis Arena Deadline next Tuesday.

[gnome]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...56882816_x.htm

DETROIT [[AP) — Red Wings and Detroit officials are continuing to work on a deal that involves the future home of the hockey team.
Olympia Entertainment has until Tuesday to notify the city if it will continue leasing Joe Louis Arena before a 20-year option automatically kicks in.
The lease expires June 30, 2010.
Ilitch Holdings Inc. spokeswoman Karen Cullen would not comment Wednesday on a lease renewal or whether there are plans to build a new arena.

So, by next Tuesday we should know if Ilitch & Co. are going to stay or go and if the answer is go, where they are are going to go to. Bets are being laid now, the three top spots for a new Arena are:

• Behind the the Fox
• Across the Lodge from Motor City Casino in the old projects
• North of 375 between Cass and Woodward

Any wagers?

[GREENTROIT]

Conventional wisdom says he's gonna build it in the seas of parking lots West of the Fox Theater near the other stadiums, but he gets all the parking revenue from those lots for 81 Tigers home games, so maybe not. I'm still going with that area. I think Corktown is also a possibility.

[GREENTROIT]

I also wonder where they would play if they don't resign the lease. It expires in about one calendar year, and theres no way they can build a stadium in one year. So would they sign year to year leases with the City for Joe Louis, or go somewhere else? It should be interesting...

[Jmil]

Novi - and they are going to include a House of Blues and Cheesecake Factory in the same building.

[kraig]

I also wonder where they would play if they don't resign the lease. It expires in about one calendar year, and theres no way they can build a stadium in one year. So would they sign year to year leases with the City for Joe Louis, or go somewhere else? It should be interesting...

I don't think they're worried about getting kicked out, the Wings bring in too much revenue. Even if they don't sign, Olympia would still continue to manage Joe Louis Arena until the administration would present a new agreement, whether it's with Olympia or anyone else, to City Council and Council approved it.

Does anyone remember if Joe Louis Arena is a part of the Cobo Expansion legislation?

[ScienceFair]

Does anyone remember if Joe Louis Arena is a part of the Cobo Expansion legislation?

Kraig, I don't know the answer, but I think that will be a key factor in what develops on the site. I really hope the City Clowncil is looking at all of the synergies involved with these projects.

[crawford]

They have to renew the lease. I don't understand the suspense.

How and why would they build a new arena? Illitch doesn't have the money, and neither do the City or State. JLA isn't that bad to begin with.

If they desperately need a newer arena with all the frills, well we already have that. It's called the Palace.

Metro Detroit cannot support two arenas with tons of suites and frills. You need to combine hockey and basketball in one arena, and then the suites and frills make sense.

[rsa.313]

it will not be north of 75 between woodward and cass. land ownership is too varied and current owners are asking too much for accumulation. also, M1 rail now has approval status along the woodward corridor on the sale of public land.

[GREENTROIT]

I agree that they will renew the lease for maybe a few years, but Ilitch wants and will get a new arena.

And I disagree that metro Detroit can't support two arenas with frills and suites. We sell out Ford Field with suites and frills. The Tigers are 4th in attendance averaging over 28,000 a game in suite and frills Comerica. The Palace had a 200+ sellout streak that ended this season. We would certainly support a new hockey arena. The dual basketball/hockey arenas make a lot of sense in dense cities with incredibly expensive land. That's not Detroit. And there's no way Ilitch plays the Wings in Auburn Hills, so unless the Davidson's move the Pistons downtown [[will never happen), we're going to have two arenas.

[12468_laing]

if they really are thinking of building a new arena, which i don't think they need, why not on the site of Tiger Stadium? it may be sacreligions, but since Ilitich owns both the wings and tigers, figure he would build there.

[Jmil]

I understand there is some pretty good hockey played at the Roosevelt Warehouse, if you don't mind dead bodies buried in ice.

[ghettopalmetto]

The dual basketball/hockey arenas make a lot of sense in dense cities with incredibly expensive land. That's not Detroit.

Or, you know, ANY city. Detroit is the only city in North America that uses different arenas for its hockey and basketball teams.

[crawford]

IAnd I disagree that metro Detroit can't support two arenas with frills and suites.

Please name me a city that has two successful arenas with frills and suites. New York is the only one I can think of. It can't even be done in LA or Chicago.

Are you telling me that Detroit has a deeper pool of potential suiteholders than LA? LOL.

The dual basketball/hockey arenas make a lot of sense in dense cities with incredibly expensive land.

Um, like Atlanta? Dallas? Denver? These are "dense cities with incredibly expensive land"?

[detmsp]

Metro Detroit cannot support two arenas with tons of suites and frills.

they don't build suites because they look so darn pretty... they build them because they are huge money makers. so how would the addition of suites make two arenas suddenly less viable?

[kraig]

Please name me a city that has two successful arenas with frills and suites. New York is the only one I can think of. It can't even be done in LA or Chicago.

Are you telling me that Detroit has a deeper pool of potential suiteholders than LA? LOL.

Um, like Atlanta? Dallas? Denver? These are "dense cities with incredibly expensive land"?

You do realize that we support both the Pistons and the Red Wings now and they're in different facilities? So, it's really just an issue of whether Wing's fans will still be willing to go to Wing's games if they're in a new state of the art arena and the possible higher costs that are associated with that?

[gnome]

Dan, you mean any cities other than Phoenix?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobing.com_Arena

And of course the New Jersey Nets play in East Rutherford while the Devils are 10 miles away in Newark. oh well

[crawford]

they don't build suites because they look so darn pretty... they build them because they are huge money makers. so how would the addition of suites make two arenas suddenly less viable?

Yes, but they are only huge money makers if you have a market to support them.

Excepting maybe New York, I can think of no other city on the planet with two successful suite-laden arenas. Not London, not LA, not Tokyo.

Please tell me why Detroit somehow has a deeper pool of wealth and corporate power than places like London and Tokyo.

Heck, look at Chicago. Chicago has only one arena for two teams. You think metro Detroit, which is half the size of metro Chicago, has twice the market for suites? So, on a per-capita basis, we have four times the wealth? For real?

[izzyindetroit]

Yes, but they are only huge money makers if you have a market to support them.

Excepting maybe New York, I can think of no other city on the planet with two successful suite-laden arenas. Not London, not LA, not Tokyo.

Please tell me why Detroit somehow has a deeper pool of wealth and corporate power than places like London and Tokyo.

Heck, look at Chicago. Chicago has only one arena for two teams. You think metro Detroit, which is half the size of metro Chicago, has twice the market for suites? So, on a per-capita basis, we have four times the wealth? For real?

But people in Chicago don't watch hockey. At least not until recently.

[ghettopalmetto]

Dan, you mean any cities other than Phoenix?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobing.com_Arena

And of course the New Jersey Nets play in East Rutherford while the Devils are 10 miles away in Newark. oh well

That's my bad. I didn't do my research. With that said, though, the Phoenix Coyotes are facing extreme financial difficulty, and the New Jersey Nets are slated to move to Brooklyn [[they used to share their arena with the Devils until 2007). But certainly, you're not going to use these two examples--one of which includes an incredibly wealthy metropolitan area--as justification for the "need" of the Wings to play in a building completely separate from the Pistons. Just how much money is flowing through the streets of Detroit these days, anyway?

I just can't wait to see the massive handouts Mike Ilitch is going to receive from Detroit to build his new ParkingPlex/Arena. Maybe we can get a few more of these pesky buildings demolished while we're at it.

[crawford]

You do realize that we support both the Pistons and the Red Wings now and they're in different facilities?

Yes, this is my point. Your point is very different. You claim that the region can support two suite-laden luxury arenas, which is a necessary condition for a new Wings arena.

If the Wings do not want to build a suite-laden arena, then there is no economic incentive to leave the Joe.

So, it's really just an issue of whether Wing's fans will still be willing to go to Wing's games if they're in a new state of the art arena and the possible higher costs that are associated with that?

It has nothing to do with that. Wings fans will attend Wings games if they're held in the Flint Auditorium.

My point is that there is no economic reason for the Wings to build a new arena. The reasoning for new arenas is to build wealth through suites and frills, but we already have such an arena in metro Detroit. The market cannot support two such arenas. There is no way the Wings could sell 200 suites at 400,000 each, or whatever they would need.

[kraig]

Yes, but they are only huge money makers if you have a market to support them.

Excepting maybe New York, I can think of no other city on the planet with two successful suite-laden arenas. Not London, not LA, not Tokyo.

Please tell me why Detroit somehow has a deeper pool of wealth and corporate power than places like London and Tokyo.

Heck, look at Chicago. Chicago has only one arena for two teams. You think metro Detroit, which is half the size of metro Chicago, has twice the market for suites? So, on a per-capita basis, we have four times the wealth? For real?

Tokyo and London are your arguments?




HOCKEYTOWN!!!!!!!!!!! Get it, Got it, Good.

[crawford]

Dan, you mean any cities other than Phoenix?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobing.com_Arena

And of course the New Jersey Nets play in East Rutherford while the Devils are 10 miles away in Newark. oh well

Thank you for proving my point.

The Jobbing Arena has been a huge failure, as has the downtown Phoenix arena. Both are huge money losers. It is so bad that both teams have threatened to leave the Phoenix region.

In fact, the Phoenix Coyotes are currently pursuing legal action against the NHL to get out of their lease and leave the region.

As for the NY/NJ market, I mentioned this as a possible exception, but even here there are issues. The Nets are leaving that arena for Barclays Center in Brooklyn.

The Meadowlands Arena will be demolished.

The Prudential Center in Newark has been a big money-loser, even though it's a beautiful arena. And it's irrelevent anyways, because Prudential Center was funded through about $200 million in state taxpayer dollars. Are you saying that Detroit or Michigan could currently raise $200 million from taxpayers for a new arena?

And it's a silly comparison anyways to think that the Detroit market has the same corporate and economic base as the New York market.

[MotownSpartan]

Detroit is consistently rated among the top 5 sports cities in North America. We are Hockeytown. While most cities probably couldn't support two suite laden arenas Detroit is probably an exception to the rule. People are very loyal/into sports here.

This is actually one area where Detroit boosters and supporters don't have to put on their rosy glasses to proclaim what a great sports city we are, it's true.

It's funny because if someone on this board even hints that Detroit might not be safe you have a plethora of posters telling them how safe Detroit is but if someone says Detroit can support an independent luxury hockey arena everyone jumps on them telling it's not possible.

[crawford]

Detroit is consistently rated among the top 5 sports cities in North America. We are Hockeytown. While most cities probably couldn't support two suite laden arenas Detroit is probably an exception to the rule. People are very loyal/into sports here.

This is totally irrelevent.

I'm talking about corporate base and community wealth, not fan loyalty.

Selling suites has little to do with fan loyalty. It's a corporate perk. It doesn't really matter if it's a good sports town or not, especially considering that arenas don't just serve a sports audience.

[raptor56]

Metro Detroit cannot support two arenas with tons of suites and frills. You need to combine hockey and basketball in one arena, and then the suites and frills make sense.

ummmmm... We already do. 19,000 people routinely fill the Joe on the same evening 21,000 people fill the Palace. Adding a couple more suites and frills to a new Joe will not suddenly change this dynamic. It worked jsut find for the Lions and Tigers. Should we combind our Baseball and Footabll stadiums too? Obviously Metro Detroit can't handle two large stadiums with suites and frills.

Please name me a city that has two successful arenas with frills and suites. New York is the only one I can think of. It can't even be done in LA or Chicago.

New Jersey: NBA Izod Center. NHL Prudential Center
Charlotte, NC: NBA Time Warner Cable Arena. NHL RBC Center
Miami, FL: NBA American Airlines Arena NHL Bank Atlantic Center
Minnesota: NBA Target Center NHL Xcel Energy Center

Aside from one or 2 of these areans, all ahve been built within the last 7 years, and with all of teh standard suites and frills.

And last I checked, if you have one stadium with all the frills and suites supporting a hockey and a basketball team, you still need to find the same number of suite and ticekt buyers as if you had two stadiums. Buying a suite for the Knicks doesn't buy you a suite for the Rangers.