Feedom Of Speech * Freedom Of Religion

[Papasito]

Sorry, when religious groups preach hate based on their religion, I feel totally free to belittle them. When they insist on imposing their dogma on the public sphere - whether it is the ten commandments in courthouses, teaching creationism as science, or anything else, I will feel justified in mocking them. Any time they seek to impose their superstitious views on me or society, I will feel the duty to stand up against them.

So match hate with hate?

This is essentially the anti-gay marriage version of "separate but equal"

So go after the term Marraige at all costs, even if it means head to head combat with religion for even more future decades? That's going to take a long time.

The MAIN thing being denied are things like the right to visit their spouse in the hospital, legal protection of the spouses' interests in each other's estates, parental rights, etc.

This stuff still goes on? Sorry to hear that. Maybe some of our do-nothing Government will do something about this... and soon. One would think in modern America some common sense would come into play with these issues and it wouldn't require an act of Congress or the President to fix it....

About my "Executive Order" angle, Here's an interesting fact:
THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION THAT FREED U.S. SLAVES WAS AN EXECUTIVE ORDER!! It was never passed by Congress.

The Emancipation Proclamation is an executive order issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, during the American Civil War using his war powers. It was not a law passed by Congress. It proclaimed the freedom of slaves in the ten states then in rebellion, thus applying to 3.1 million of the 4 million slaves in the U.S. at that time. The Proclamation immediately freed 50,000 slaves, with nearly all the rest [[of the 3.1 million) freed as Union armies advanced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

You would think if Abraham Lincoln could free millions of slaves, and Barack Obama could grant a form of amnesty to 800,000 people by using Executive Orders,[[ http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/politi...ion/index.html )
then granting equal rights to same-sex couples though an Executive Order should be a no-brainer.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think it can be done. And I'd like to see it done before Obama is out of office, because if Romney wins, there's no way he's going to do it.

[rb336]

So match hate with hate?

speaking out against hate and stupidity isn't matching "hate with hate."
saying they should all be put in a concentration camp until they all die off, as some have suggested about LGBTs and more have agreed with is hateful. NOT standing up to these evil, small minded jackasses is immoral. You seem to imply that we should let them do whatever they want, picket soldiers funerals, force pseudoscience down our children's throats, etc., and not call them on their bullshit.

So go after the term Marraige at all costs, even if it means head to head combat with religion for even more future decades? That's going to take a long time.

There are still churches refusing to marry black couples in the South - even though they were members of that church. Do you suggest we should just let that go?

This stuff still goes on? Sorry to hear that. Maybe some of our do-nothing Government will do something about this... and soon. One would think in modern America some common sense would come into play with these issues and it wouldn't require an act of Congress or the President to fix it....

Common sense when hate groups like the tea party get away with alluding to killing the President? When they run good conservatives out of office for being too moderate?​ Sorry, common sense isn't around in this country. common sense says one set of rules for everybody. So does the 14th Amendment.

[oladub]

rb, How does calling people you disagree with "evil, small minded jackasses", alluding that those involved in the Tea Party movement are part of a "Hate group""alluding to killing the president", calling people on this board alternately "haters" and "racists" for saying far less incendiary things qualify you as an expert on singling our hatred and stupidity? Like the Southern Poverty Law Center, you seem to have mastered the art of using a broad brush to silence those in opposition to your points of view by taking legitimate conservative, libertarian, or religious points and jumbling them with hate groups.

I agree with you though about the 14th Amendment supporting one set of rules for everybody. So how come, the Obama administration doesn't?

[rb336]

so you don't think people advocating setting up concentration camps for people who are different than you is evil and small-minded?


So you don't think Tea Party politician and Ron Paul supporter Jules Manson wasn't peddling hate when he said "Assassinate the F*g n____ and his monkey children"? you don't think that is racist? If it were an isolated incident, that would be one thing, but it's a far-too-common occurrence. Granted, most aren't as blatant, but there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of people in leadership positions in tea party groups making very similar comments. And how many times have Tea Party - or even non-TP republican - leaders made a non-equivocal condemnation of that kind of behavior? Every sort-of condemnation I have seen includes a hefty dose of "however" phraseology, so the answer to that is "none." When an entire group fails to condemn that sort of behavior, it becomes a tacit endorser of that behavior/viewpoint. It's simple - if you don't condemn hatred coming from your camp, you are giving it strength. Calling out those organizations is NOT using a broad brush to "silence" those I disagree with. Hate speech should be called hate speech, and anyone of good conscience should be able to recognize it as such. If YOU think calling out these people who act and speak that way is wrong, you have a lot of soul searching to do.

As far as calling people on the board "haters" is concerned, when someone works so hard to redefine things in a way that is a) unsupportable from a logical or rhetorical standpoint and b) is done do justify an unfavorable view of someone or something, that person is trying very hard to justify his or her hatred of that someone or something, which makes them, by definition, a hater. When someone makes bullshit comments designed to exemplify the "otherness" of someone, that behavior is also, definitively, racist

[Papasito]

BUT CHICK FIL A DID NOT DO ANY OF THAT.

Here is the quote in it's entirity:

When asked if Chick-fil-A's success is attributed to biblical values, Cathy quickly said, "I think they're inseparable. God wants to give us wisdom to make good decisions and choices." Quoting James 1:5, he spoke of how often he asks God for wisdom.

"Frequently Jesus challenged us to just ask ... we're simply not asking as often as we should. We need to be more faithful to depend on a God who does love us and wants to have a relationship with us, and wants to give us the desires of our hearts."

There is another success story attributed to Cathy's organization. They have a positive influence in the world of Atlantic Coast Conference [[ACC) and Southeastern Conference [[SEC) football.

There was a time when the Atlanta college football bowl game, which is now named after Chick-fil-A, was called the Peach Bowl. The annual bowl features teams from the ACC and the SEC. It struggled for a long time. Then 15 years ago the Chick-fil-A organization got involved. It was rebranded as the Chick-fil-A Bowl and has been incredibly successful with 15 consecutive sellouts.

"We are the only bowl that has an invocation. It's in our agreement that if Chick-fil-A is associated in this, there's going to be an invocation. Also, we don't have our bowl on Sunday, either," Cathy said.

In 2008 Chick-fil-A began sponsoring a Chick-fil-A Kickoff game matching two of the nation's top teams and hosted on the first weekend of the season in the same stadium [[Georgia Dome) as the Chick-fil-A Bowl. This year Chick-fil-A will host two kickoff games, one on Friday and one on Saturday.

"That's never been done before," he said.

The pair of Chick-fil-A Kickoff games is expected to generate more than $60 million in economic impact. The bowl website describes the event as "a college football celebration of epic proportions."

When questioned about Chick-Fil-A's "Closed on Sunday" policy Cathy responded, "It was not an issue in 1946 when we opened up our first restaurant. But as living standards changed and lifestyles changed, people came to be more active on Sundays."

The policy has not changed over the years as malls began changing their policies by opening on Sundays.

"We've always put in our lease that we will be closed on Sundays," Cathy said. "We've had a track record that we were generating more business in six days than the other tenants were generating in seven [days]."

"While developers had no identity whatsoever with our corporate purpose to 'glorify God and be a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us and have a positive influence on all that come in contact with Chick-fil-A,' they did identify with the rent checks that we wrote to the mall, that were based on our sales.

"So, they would make an exception for Chick-fil-A when they wouldn't make an exception for anybody else, simply because they knew we would pay them more in rent than any other tenant would that was open even seven days a week."

The company invests in Christian growth and ministry through its WinShape Foundation [[WinShape.com). The name comes from the idea of shaping people to be winners.

It began as a college scholarship and expanded to a foster care program, an international ministry, and a conference and retreat center modeled after the Billy Graham Training Center at the Cove.

"That morphed into a marriage program in conjunction with national marriage ministries," Cathy added.

Some have opposed the company's support of the traditional family. "Well, guilty as charged," said Cathy when asked about the company's position.

"We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.

"We operate as a family business ... our restaurants are typically led by families; some are single. We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that," Cathy emphasized.

"We intend to stay the course," he said. "We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

SOURCE: http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Mr. Cathy clearly states his/the company's support for traditional marraige, however, Nowhere in this entire article is same sex marraige belittled, insulted or attacked.

This is a very boring, milk toast interview that states support of traditional marraige and religious values.

If he said something like "We support traditional marraige and have an ongoing campaign to stamp out same sex marraige and lobby Washington to never permit equal rights for same sex couples", I would understand all the outrage.

BUT NOTHING LIKE THAT WAS EVER SAID.

This guy was giving a faith-related interview to a Baptist Press journalist. Take it in context.

[ghettopalmetto]

BUT CHICK FIL A DID NOT DO ANY OF THAT.

Here is the quote in it's entirity:

SOURCE: http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

Mr. Cathy clearly states his/the company's support for traditional marraige, however, Nowhere in this entire article is same sex marraige belittled, insulted or attacked.

This is a very boring, milk toast interview that states support of traditional marraige and religious values.

Well, Mr. Cathy sure-as-shit wasn't lamenting the masses of single moms and divorcees who patronize his restaurants all throughout the Dirty South.

Nice try, though.

[oladub]

rb, Nice try at twisting my words and inferring things I didn't suggest in your intro. It did help you do a good job of making my point though; that you are stereotyping groups and labeling individuals with a broad brush. Just because there are murderers who voted for or endorsed Obama does not mean that Democrats should be called names like what you just called tea partiers most of whom tend to be a lot more concerned with reducing spending and being left alone by government than the outrageous, or should I say "hateful", things you call them and infer. Most Democrats are not murderers and most tea partiers are not dripping with hate. To make such stereotypical characterizations based on such defective inductive reasoning demagoguery and then to apply it with a broad brush is dangerous because it leads to hate and pogroms.

[NewportNic]

If I tell my grandchildren that I don't like
...pants so low I can see their boxers
...piercings on their lips
...tattoos of Satan or Skulls
it doesn't mean that I will love them less if they do these things, Just that "I" don't like them.

[Zacha341]

Nah! Don't say anything! Better to be cool, be their 'friend' and politically correct----! Who needs such stodgy values!

If I tell my grandchildren that I don't like
...pants so low I can see their boxers
...piercings on their lips
...tattoos of Satan or Skulls
it doesn't mean that I will love them less if they do these things, Just that "I" don't like them.

[Pam]

The problem isn't just what Mr. Chicken said, it's that his company also gives money to anti gay groups.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1644609.html

[noise]

"As a company, we support segregation."

They never said they were racists!!!

[HistoryNotHisStory]

The truth is this:

1. The President of Chick-A-Fill had every right to express his personal opinion on marriage.

2. Chick-A-Fill is a private institution.
3. If you don't like his statement, then don't patronize Chick-A-Fill. But do not stop his business from operating.

I love Chick A Fill. When I visited Georgia a year ago, I enjoyed their burgers and chicken sandwiches. I love the atmosphere and customer service. The next time I am in the South I will visit Chick A Fill because they serve Good Food.

In personal opinion, Gay Marriage is abhor. But I am not storming the White House because the President wants to see civil unions.

[rb336]

you are partially right.

1) the cro-magnon running Chick-fil-a had every right to say what he feels
2) chick-fil-a is a private company

that's where it ends

Anyone who doesn't hold the bigoted views of the company have every right to express their displeasure in any legal fashion they choose.

and I have no idea what a chick-a-fill is

[Jimaz]

Sorry, I can't hold this one back any longer. I tried to—really hard. Honest!

It's a Rahm lookalike:

Attachment 15083
Rahm Welcomes Chick-Fil-A to Chicago

[noise]

The truth is this:

1. The President of Chick-A-Fill had every right to express his personal opinion on marriage.

2. Chick-A-Fill is a private institution.
3. If you don't like his statement, then don't patronize Chick-A-Fill. But do not stop his business from operating.

I love Chick A Fill. When I visited Georgia a year ago, I enjoyed their burgers and chicken sandwiches. I love the atmosphere and customer service. The next time I am in the South I will visit Chick A Fill because they serve Good Food.

In personal opinion, Gay Marriage is abhor. But I am not storming the White House because the President wants to see civil unions.

Nobody stopped his business from operating. Nobody has stated his business should stop operating. Some politicians have said they were not welcome and would make it difficult to operate in certain locations, but were certainly not calling for the demise of the wrong-headed company.

This isn't really about "personal opinion". This is about being 100% wrong.

[oladub]

The owner of Chik Fil A donated $2M to a foundation supporting traditional marriage positions. The owners of Amazon have donated $2.5M to organizations supportive of gay marriage. Target is another major company supporting gay marriage. Koch Bros. profits support anti-gay agenda to a greater degree than Chik Fil A. I've never even seen a Chik Fil A franchise but do business with Amazon, Target and probably buy Koch Bros. products. I suspect that food quality and value would also be the determining factor regarding whether I did business with Chil Fil A. Its a free country, though, so we can pick and choose for whatever reason and encourage others to do the same. At least, Chik Fil A gets a lot of free publicity out of this in the south where people generally approve of its owner's actions. Another option is to start or buy a competing business and run it in some self-defined morally pure manner.