Progress Photos of the old MGM Grand Building

**Detroit Stylin** · July-28-12, 07:52 PM

....on the combined public safety building in the old MGM Grand building. What effect do you think this combination of services is going to have for the CoD?

Attachment 14828 Attachment 14829 Attachment 14830

**DetroitPlanner** · July-28-12, 10:09 PM

Both cops and fire officials will have lots in indoor parking and reduce their illegal parking? I think the cops should be closer to the courts and jails, but I was not involved in the decision.

**Gistok** · July-29-12, 03:31 AM

For some reason I cannot get past the fact that initially the IRS built a very ugly building, and spent a lot of money doing so.

Then many years later MGM Grand spent over $250 million to convert this building into a temporary casino, with neo-Art Deco trim on the outside.

And now it's being all gutted and ripped out for another expensive makeover.

Now I'm not complaining that a new use is being found for this building... but it boggles the mind at how American's squander vast sums of money in the public and private sector....

I wish they would have reused the former temporary casino as a Magic Johnson Theatre Complex [[thus getting some reuse out of that $250 million MGM money), and just built their combination Police HQ, over by St. Antoine & Gratiot on that 34 acres that the County wants to develop.

When all is said and done... this one shell of a building site will have probably had at least 1/2 billion dollars spent on it... and the rest of the city is starved for cash...

Spending vast sums of money in the same spot over and over again... really doesn't give the city a lot of bang for the buck...

Just sayin'.....

**1953** · July-31-12, 09:32 AM

Firstly, I totally agree with Gistok's previous post.

Secondly, this new facility will leave two empty facilities in its wake. Knowing this city as I do, they will become surface parking lots.

Thirdly, the new use will do nothing to improve street life vitality on the westside of downtown [[while reducing it on the east side of downtown).

Fourthly, the new facility will keep stable or reduce the quality of the street grid downtown, depending on whether access to Abbott and the Lodge service drive remain blocked when the building opens, as they are now.

Fifthly, the new facility will add to the slew of ugly modernist buildings that exist in the world [[who's liking that faux slate look? I mean, come on!).

Sad, but true...

1953

**cramerro** · July-31-12, 09:39 AM

Progress... is his middle name! Re-elect Goldie Wilson Mayor of Hill Valley!

Agreed that the last thing we need is another public building that features large expanses of grey and black walls with oddly placed windows [[think Detroit HS for Fine and Performing Arts)... and it is especially egregious when it replaces a gem like police HQ.

This all just clicked a bit... there is the potential for three city blocks to be cleared for Police HQ and the two jails when the two rediculous projects are completed. That will be quite a new hole in the grid, smilar to DTE/MGM area.

**GPCharles** · July-31-12, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Both cops and fire officials will have lots in indoor parking and reduce their illegal parking?

The parking on Woodbridge near the building occupied by the Homicide Squad is horrendous. The cops park anywhere and everywhere with their police placards in their car windows.

**iheartthed** · July-31-12, 11:19 AM

I think it's just gonna create a couple more abandoned buildings downtown.

**Detroitnerd** · July-31-12, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think it's just gonna create a couple more abandoned buildings downtown.

That's true. I agree with Gistok's points and your point. And the new place is sure to be an auto-friendly establishment with very little street presence.

Isn't it an abomination that we sink millions into demolitions of existing buildings and the one place they have plunged hundreds of millions of dollars into rejuvenating is a brutalist monstrosity that nobody would have missed if it sank into the earth? Further proof that it isn't money, it's priorities...

**Hypestyles** · July-31-12, 12:09 PM

...I still want to see a multiplex downtown [[shout out to the Ren Cen 4).. has magic johnson publicly asked about looking into opening a detroit theater?

at the old MGM site-- how many entrance/exit ramps does it have? with the understanding that lots of emergency vehicles are going to come and go, is it set up for relative ease of access and exit?

**DetroitPlanner** · July-31-12, 12:12 PM

It takes quite a bit to change a casino into an office building. Casinos have no windows. Offices need windows to keep lighting costs low.

The area across the Frank Murphy is owned by the county. The county wants it to expand the Wayne County jail and for more courts. Building there would not have been feasible.

If the merged Police/Fire HQ was moved to another building, a site would need to be found with abundant parking. Like it or not the Police and Fire department need maximum mobility to be effective. This means lots of cars or other vehicles.

The MGM site gave them lots of parking. Something the other sites do not have. If it means a re-skinning of the building so be it, at least they are addressing many of the issues that the feds had, that Kwame was supposed to take care of, that were never addressed.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-31-12, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

That's true. I agree with Gistok's points and your point. And the new place is sure to be an auto-friendly establishment with very little street presence.

Isn't it an abomination that we sink millions into demolitions of existing buildings and the one place they have plunged hundreds of millions of dollars into rejuvenating is a brutalist monstrosity that nobody would have missed if it sank into the earth? Further proof that it isn't money, it's priorities...

You hit it on the head, brother.

Its very hard to imagine reasons for this reuse. It was a bunker. That's what the IRS wanted. Oddly, the IRS then built a non-bunker building right on Michigan just moments before they would never be allowed to do that again.

**Detroitej72** · July-31-12, 03:08 PM

I guess this means the Kwame's proposal to turn the Michigan Central into the new police headquarters is officially off the table!

**Rocko** · July-31-12, 09:32 PM

Have any plans been put forth by the DPD or DFD for their old space once this new building opens? The short-sightedness of not requiring such documents let alone an actual plan that could actually be feasible is pathetic and simply representative of how ineffective leadership is, especially in the city council. In fact, this move to the former IRS site should have been contingent upon finding alternative uses for the historic DPD and DFD headquarters buildings BEFORE any work started. The FD's location across from Cobo in a generally stable and more diverse district might make it a candidate for some kind of adaptive reuse, but the PD building over on the east side seems less likely.

I couldn't agree with 1953's five-points more.....

**bailey** · August-01-12, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Rocko

Have any plans been put forth by the DPD or DFD for their old space once this new building opens? The short-sightedness of not requiring such documents let alone an actual plan that could actually be feasible is pathetic and simply representative of how ineffective leadership is, especially in the city council. In fact, this move to the former IRS site should have been contingent upon finding alternative uses for the historic DPD and DFD headquarters buildings BEFORE any work started. The FD's location across from Cobo in a generally stable and more diverse district might make it a candidate for some kind of adaptive reuse, but the PD building over on the east side seems less likely.

I couldn't agree with 1953's five-points more.....

Get ready for 35 years of abandonment and scrapping then an announcement of demolition to create a pocket park.

**jtf1972** · August-01-12, 09:32 AM

They should have built in Auburn Hills. Then it would be more convenient for the employees.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-01-12, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Get ready for 35 years of abandonment and scrapping then an announcement of demolition to create a pocket park.

Once the police are out, I can foresee it being bought by a developer cleaned up, new HVAC and electric, and turned into offices for Lawyers. It is central for most of the downtown courts and only a couple of blocks from the people mover.

**kenp** · August-01-12, 09:51 AM

I cant imagine that building being razed. Though it will cost a bunch to get it updated.
As far as the new building it does seems stupid to gut it like they are.
At least we will look modern on, "The First 48"

**401don** · August-01-12, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Once the police are out, I can foresee it being bought by a developer cleaned up, new HVAC and electric, and turned into offices for Lawyers. It is central for most of the downtown courts and only a couple of blocks from the people mover.

Plus it will have an unobstructed view of the new casino parking garage

**ScienceFair** · August-01-12, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

It takes quite a bit to change a casino into an office building. Casinos have no windows. Offices need windows to keep lighting costs low.

The area across the Frank Murphy is owned by the county. The county wants it to expand the Wayne County jail and for more courts. Building there would not have been feasible.

If the merged Police/Fire HQ was moved to another building, a site would need to be found with abundant parking. Like it or not the Police and Fire department need maximum mobility to be effective. This means lots of cars or other vehicles.

The MGM site gave them lots of parking. Something the other sites do not have. If it means a re-skinning of the building so be it, at least they are addressing many of the issues that the feds had, that Kwame was supposed to take care of, that were never addressed.

Exactly. Believe it or not, there was a rather extensive study conducted weighing the options of other sites in the downtown area and for the reasons stated above, this site was chosen. There was another location in the CBD that was considered, but i'm sure people would have been upset about that location as well.

MGM spent a ton of money to build a temporary casino and they got exactly that, a temporary casino. A lot of flashy/crappy materials and finishes meant to last no more than 10 years. The structure of the building was/is sound, but the facade which again was not remodeled to last more than 10 years, was failing. Given the limited budget, this is a pretty impressive design improvement.

I'm not sure what people wanted to see on this site in terms of aesthetics. A lot of glass is pretty but is also fiscally irresponsible, insulated metal panel isn't as attractive, but it makes more sense in the long run.

**Gistok** · August-01-12, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by ScienceFair

MGM spent a ton of money to build a temporary casino and they got exactly that, a temporary casino. A lot of flashy/crappy materials and finishes meant to last no more than 10 years. The structure of the building was/is sound, but the facade which again was not remodeled to last more than 10 years, was failing. Given the limited budget, this is a pretty impressive design improvement.

So are you saying that 1/4 billion dollars for a temporary casino didn't buy a lot of quality materials?

So if the city is spending only about 1/4 of what MGM did [[$60) million for another makeover.... how do you come to the conclusion that this will last any longer than the temporary casino did? Also given the city's track record on lack of maintenance [[look at 1300 Beaubien), shouldn't the lifespan of the new new Police/Fire station last even less than 10 years?

Perhaps one reason that MGM temporary casino was [[as you call it) failing was that they knew that they were moving, and weren't going to spend another cent on the temp. Also, the temporary casino has been empty for a number of years, and no maintenance has been done, and all utilities shut off... that also affects a buildings rate of decay.

Should the city be worried about the "temporary" parking deck then? Parking structures have an even shorter lifespan [[open to the elements) than buildings generally do.

Sorry, I don't follow your logic...

**bailey** · August-01-12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Once the police are out, I can foresee it being bought by a developer cleaned up, new HVAC and electric, and turned into offices for Lawyers. It is central for most of the downtown courts and only a couple of blocks from the people mover.

In a real city that might be true. however this is Detroit.

If lawyers REALLY needed or wanted to be near Frank Murphy....they'd be there already. Ford Field has [[per their website ) 230,000 square feet of empty offices [[the only reason Bodman is there is because Ford forced them to move out of RenCen after GM bought it) and there is soon to be another 110,000 square feet of empty space when PWC moves out of the building they built behind ford field.

So, yeah. I don't think any developer is going to invest a dime with 300,000 square feet of Class A, virtually brand new office space sitting empty all around 1300 Beaubien....not to mention the rest of the CBD.

Get your pictures, tours, and building hugs in now...before they're scrapped and looted starting day one of abandonment.

**ScienceFair** · August-01-12, 12:04 PM

Without seeing the budget for the MGM Renovation, I can't speak to where all of the money went, but from what I've seen it went towards a lot of cheap EIFS adornments and paint. There was a substantial addition made to the building [[$$) to accomodate the main gaming floor, new HVAC units were added to handle a 24/7 facilitity filled with chain-smoking gamblers, and a new parking garage was built. MGM spent very little on improving the exterior envelope and chose to instead cover up the windows, paint over existing walls and add EIFS adornments to make it look like a casino.

You are correct that MGM didn't want to spend any extra money on a temp casino. The guts of the building were relatively unchanged from the original 1970s IRS building. That being said, the city needed to rip out most of the cheap casino crap to get to the solid bones of the building and build up from there.

Regarding the parking deck, the MGM deck has been thoroughly evaluated is quite solid. The old deck to the east of the building was not in good shape was torn down.

There's really not much to follow.

**1953** · August-01-12, 12:33 PM

It looks like we have an 80-20 split in favor of halting this abomination of a development and designing an urban police headquarters worthy of our city. So, let's imagine what that would look like. I'll start...

How about an 8-10 floor masonry building with zero setback, decorate elements, and parking underneath?

1953

P.S. In a city of our size, I would imagine that most casework should be completed at neighborhood precincts, leaving only leadership, R&D, and basic admin functions downtown.

**Rocko** · October-08-12, 12:13 AM

The FD's location across from Cobo in a generally stable and more diverse district might make it a candidate for some kind of adaptive reuse, but the PD building over on the east side seems less likely.

I am slightly amazed that this is going forward......

Detroit seeks proposals to redevelop downtown Fire Dept HQ

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 02, 2012

The city of Detroit is preparing to release a formal request for proposals for the city's soon-to-be former Fire Dept. headquarters in downtown.

The Detroit Fire Dept has called 250 W. Larned St. home since the building was constructed in 1929. The 5-story structure at the corner of Washington Blvd. features 62,910 square feet. The building is zoned PCA, Restricted Central Business District and could accommodate a high-density re-development.

"We want something that will complement downtown," says Brad Dick, director of the General Services Dept for the city of Detroit. "It could be mixed-use, like condos with a business downstairs."

The Detroit Fire Department is preparing to move to the city's new public safety headquarters in the former MGM Casino on the west end of downtown next summer. It will completely vacate its current home during the move.

Jones Lang LaSalle is acting as the city's agent in this process. It is playing up the site's proximity to the newly renovated Cobo Hall and the People Mover. Financial incentives are also available for the redevelopment. The city has been floating the idea of redeveloping the site for several weeks and has conducted about 20 walk-throughs to potential developers. The city hopes to have a deal in place within the next 9-12 months.

"We'd like to have an agreement to do something as soon as possible," Dick says.

For information, contact Sterling Howard at 313-967-4108 or atsterling.howard@am.jll.com.

source: http://modeldmedia.com/devnews/detro...ent100212.aspx

I'm glad to see this adaptive reuse moving progressively forward. The historic character as a firehouse is a unique feature in downtown and its prime location opposite Cobo makes it a great candidate for adaptive reuse.

**Gistok** · October-08-12, 10:38 AM

Back in the late 1980s 150 West Jefferson developer John Madden of Denver had the idea to buy the old Fire Station HQ, and save the facade, but insert a 40 story office tower within its' shell, and call it "Firehouse Square" IIRC. But since Madden eventually defaulted on his 150 West Jefferson property [[between the Ponchartrain Hotel and One Woodward Ave), this proposal came to naught.