The American Community Survey

**lpg** · July-27-12, 01:37 PM

Has anyone received one of these surveys ? The scope of the questions is very intrusive and personal. Also comes with a threat that it must be returned.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-27-12, 02:00 PM

Its from the government. Its there to help you!

ACS is used to supplement the new brief decennial census form. Without it, they would not have enough information to provide public services.

**Detroitnerd** · July-27-12, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Its from the government. Its there to help you!

http://www.fillinourfuture.org/censu...talking-points

**JBMcB** · July-27-12, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

http://www.fillinourfuture.org/censu...talking-points

So, according to the DOJ:

The president can order the assassination of American citizens without judicial review, as long as he deems them very bad
The CIA can torture people, as long as they are very bad people
The NSA can wiretap and track anyone they want to, accidentally, as long as they promise not to use the info they acquire
The ATF can sell firearms to drug smugglers without any congressional oversight
The president can call in airstrikes to kill people in foreign countries as much as he likes without asking congress for permission

But access census information? Now that's WAY out of line! I'm sure such a thing has *never* happened.

**Detroitnerd** · July-27-12, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

So, according to the DOJ:

The president can order the assassination of American citizens without judicial review, as long as he deems them very bad
The CIA can torture people, as long as they are very bad people
The NSA can wiretap and track anyone they want to, accidentally, as long as they promise not to use the info they acquire
The ATF can sell firearms to drug smugglers without any congressional oversight
The president can call in airstrikes to kill people in foreign countries as much as he likes without asking congress for permission

But access census information? Now that's WAY out of line! I'm sure such a thing has *never* happened.

Haha. Yup, good points all!

**Richard** · July-27-12, 03:11 PM

I subcontracted under FEMA in New Orleans after Katrina,the home owners that wanted to receive blue tarping on their roofs had to sign a release form first.

The fine print on the bottom of the release form read.

By signing this release you are hereby authorizing representatives of FEMA,Army corps of engineers,or any of their government representatives access to your property on the date signed and any future date as deemed necessary without prior notice.

I wonder where those files are stored now.

**lpg** · July-28-12, 11:39 AM

So we have established the fact the government is always ready to help. It just needs more information. Has anyone actually seen the questions ? BTW, I have already received a reminder to fill it out and return it.

**renf** · July-28-12, 01:11 PM

What specific questions included in the American Community are intrusive?

**lpg** · July-28-12, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by renf

What specific questions included in the American Community are intrusive?

Housing questions: How many vehicles do you own..How many bedrooms...A flush toilet..Telephone service including cell phones..Cost for electricity, gas water..Asking if Food Stamps are used..How much do you pay in taxes. Person filling out form questions: Ethnic origin..
Health insurance..mental condition..how many times married..VA disability rating..Where do you work..Time you leave for work..How do you get there..What is your job...How much you earned..Social Security income..All other income..Since these forms are specific to the persons filling them out, where is my privacy from prying eyes

**lpg** · July-28-12, 07:37 PM

The website won't let me edit. The IRS has our income information, the state has our vehicle information, and city hall has our property information. How much more is needed ? Or is this a way to centralize information under the guise of the census ? Our private lives should remain just that, private.

**renf** · July-28-12, 07:43 PM

A person's responses to the American Community Survey are protected by Title 13 which mandates that this information must remain confidential for 72 years. I know of no instance in which American Community Survey data for individuals have been released prior to the deadline specified by Congress.
We have a former resident of Detroit running for President, a man who lived on Balmoral in Palmer Woods. He has an MBA from Harvard and is said to be a data guru since investor need extensive information about individuals and their economic characteristics. If he is elected, it is possible that he will strongly advocate the collection of additional data to facilitate the decision making of investors.

**lpg** · July-28-12, 07:54 PM

So I have no expectation of any privacy. A goverment agency can send me any form and ask any questions and I must comply. Nice.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-28-12, 10:06 PM

"

The information that the Census Bureau collects helps to determine how more than $400 billion dollars of federal funding each year are spent on infrastructure and services. Your answers help state and local leaders make decisions about programs and investments such as new highways, schools, hospitals, job training, community centers, and emergency services."

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_...u_participate/

**lpg** · July-29-12, 06:21 AM

I understand the census was used to count how many people lived in the country. Now it had morphed into a all encompassing data collection agency. Why not add these questions: Do you own any firearms, if so give specific list..List any magazines you subscribe to..Your religious beliefs if any... What radio or TV stations do you watch or listen to..List of people you associate with..Have you ever been in trouble with the law if so be specific..Titles of books in your home..These questions would give the decision makers a better insight in allocating services and make the file complete. Again I ask the question how much information will be enough ?

**renf** · July-29-12, 09:43 AM

Suppose you were thinking about opening a hardware store in the Chandler Park neighborhood or a fast food restaurant in the Morningside neighborhood or an auto body bump shop on the west side of Detroit. You would like to know something about the number of people who live in those areas, their incomes, how many of them own their own homes and how many have vehicles. The American Community Survey is our only source of information about social and economic conditions in local areas such as the neighborhoods of Detroit.

**lpg** · July-29-12, 11:10 AM

Fair enough. But why can't I decide if I want to give that information. You're saying the only way to economic development is for everyone to have their personal information dumped into a giant database ? Again I ask is privacy a thing of the past ? How did we get to the 21st century without all this data collection ? Sorry, I don't buy into that theory. I plan on either not responding or just filling out the parts I find not intrusive. I am sure they will be in contact to demand the rest.

**webband1** · July-29-12, 10:13 PM

Prior censuses asked similar questions - like 1890 and earlier.

You've never had any privacy. Get over it.

**lpg** · July-30-12, 06:51 AM

This isn't 1890. Now information is available at the click of a mouse. Since most of this information is electronically stored, let them look it up. Or does it look better if you fill out your own forms. If this survey was not mandatory, what kind of response do you think it would get ?

**renf** · July-30-12, 07:14 AM

There are two fundamental questions here. First, what basic information do we need about social, economic and demographic trends so that private individuals and governments at every level can make informed decisions. The American Community Survey provides some of those data but they are about groups of people or geographic areas, not about specific individuals.
Second, is the information a person provides to a data collector going to be held in secret or not. So far as I know, there is no private sector firm such as a credit card company, a bank or a retail chain that is mandated by federal law to keep your information confidential for 72 years. Title 13 of federal code keeps confidential any information you give to the Census Bureau. So far as I know, there is no instance of a violation of that law.

**lpg** · July-30-12, 08:25 AM

First, it's not that the information is grouped together and used that way, it's the fact that the form is sent in with all YOUR personal information on it. I find it hard to believe that it will not be stored intact. Second,the difference is that when I go to open a bank account, apply for a loan, or a credit card I do so willingly. I accept that the information can be shared.

**JBMcB** · July-30-12, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by renf

Title 13 of federal code keeps confidential any information you give to the Census Bureau. So far as I know, there is no instance of a violation of that law.

Who would most likely use this information illegally? The FBI or NSA
Who would be charged with investigating illegal use of this information? The FBI
Has the FBI broken federal law before in it's investigations? Yes, extensively and over the course of decades
What was the punishment? Nothing

**aj3647** · July-30-12, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Who would most likely use this information illegally? The FBI or NSA
Who would be charged with investigating illegal use of this information? The FBI
Has the FBI broken federal law before in it's investigations? Yes, extensively and over the course of decades
What was the punishment? Nothing

Yes, the FBI has VERY sinister motives for wanting to know if you have air conditioning in your house or how many bedrooms your house has.

It's all a conspiracy! Everything's a conspiracy!

FYI, for those that actually care, American Community Survey data is EXTREMELY useful for those of us in academia who do population-level statistical analyses. I personally have used ACS data on air conditioning prevalence to look at heat vulnerability on a spatial level in the city of Detroit.

Yes, believe it or not, this data is widely used by non-governmental researchers to help you.

**JBMcB** · July-30-12, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Yes, the FBI has VERY sinister motives for wanting to know if you have air conditioning in your house or how many bedrooms your house has.

If you don't think this information would be useful for a profiling database [[occupation, relationships, transportation habits, marital history, education, military service, etc...) then you are being incredibly naive.

The FBI also has a history of, when pressured, picking a suspect nearly at random and going after them hard.

It's all a conspiracy! Everything's a conspiracy!

It's not a conspiracy, it's simply the government not caring about the law, or it's citizen's rights.

Yes, believe it or not, this data is widely used by non-governmental researchers to help you.

That's called false dichotomy. Just because the data is used to help people doesn't mean it isn't used to harm them.

**lpg** · July-31-12, 08:37 AM

The bottom line here is the issue of trust. Trust has to be earned, not demanded. Watergate and other scandals brought to light the fact that details of your private life can be illegally obtained from government files by employees or appointees of government. If the only government response to them asking questions about your personal life is to threaten fines or imprisonment for not answering we are in deeper trouble than people realize.

**oladub** · September-02-12, 01:33 AM

"Refusing or neglecting to answer the census is punishable by fines of $100, for a property or business agent to fail to provide correct names for the census is punishable by fines of $500. " -wikipedia

Your privacy will cost you $100 but don't lie or it can be expensive. That said, I have never heard of anyone being fined.

The Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" [[Article I, Section 2).

The Constitution provides that every ten years an enumeration of the population of each state shall be made in order to allocate members of the House of Representatives. Courts and Congress have expanded census activities beyond that. People who refuse to provide information beyond how many people live in their home sometimes get phone calls and visits bordering on harassment.

There are rumors that census information was released so that Japanese-Americans could be quickly located and hustled off to camps. Beyond that, I've never heard of census information being improperly shared.

A few years ago, the Census Bureau was supposed to have gone to everyone's front door for a GPS read. I never heard the explanation.