Commentary: Is Detroit becoming Michigan's next suburb?

**sg9018** · July-21-12, 01:09 PM

This article by Karen Damas, explores the question of how to balance the lines between the suburban and urban population identities. She writes,

On one hand, you see a "new" Detroit. Young, white, educated and employed are the characteristics of those who are taking a chance on the city.

They stand in stark contrast to native Detroiters — most of whom are African-Americans and many who are undereducated and unemployed — who have stayed and stuck it out over the years, through challenge and controversy. The native Detroiters, tired of the struggle and lack of change, see problems, while the new Detroiters — armed with energy and excitement — see possibilities.

There are also lifestyle changes: Bike lanes and racks at bus stops; community gardens on main thoroughfares, and pedestrians walking, running, skateboarding or pushing baby strollers well after dusk are becoming common sights. Sidewalk cafes are the red carpets to welcome new residential developments and a Whole Foods, the ultimate suburban stamp.

Urban assets — from abandoned buildings to graffiti laden walls — breed inquisitiveness and intrigue among the new Detroiters, while the same are seen as eyesores or urban decay by those who have lived in its midst and watched the city decline over the years.

From the Detroit News,
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...s-next-suburb-
Thoughts?

**dtowncitylover** · July-21-12, 01:27 PM

I'm not sure I agree. What are the "suburban-like qualities" she mentions? The bike lanes, community gardens, and sidewalk cafes? Those are "suburban"? How many of any of those are on M-59 or Big Beaver?

And the she writes, "Detroit is also not the city it was 50 years ago, nor it is capable of ever being that way again." While that may be realistic, it's very pessimistic. I think we could repopulate the city and have a vibrant urban core between the River and the Boulevard.

**nain rouge** · July-21-12, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

What are the "suburban-like qualities" she mentions?

What she means is that affluent, white suburbanites are moving into Detroit and gradually transforming it into the kind of city they want, with the little regard for the wishes of the historic black urban population that has stuck it out in the city. You could - if one desired - compare this to the effect affluent whites had on the city's black urban population when they fled in the '60s and '70s for the suburbs.

Right now, for example, we're seeing tons of resources poured into downtown and Midtown, while many outer black neighborhoods are essentially being left by the city government to rot. How different is that from when considerable regional resources were diverted from the city and into the suburbs during white flight? The city is being shaped by the dreams of transplants from Royal Oak, Troy, and other former bedroom communities.

Unfortunately, the author was too worried about the potential controversy of bluntly stating such observations [[or perhaps was too scared to admit such truths to herself), so she sort of danced around it, making her precise meaning a bit unclear. But I'm pretty sure that is what she was getting at.

**Johnnny5** · July-21-12, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I'm not sure I agree. What are the "suburban-like qualities" she mentions? The bike lanes, community gardens, and sidewalk cafes? Those are "suburban"? How many of any of those are on M-59 or Big Beaver?

You might not see them in all suburbs, but you are far more likely to find those qualities in the Metro Detroit suburbs than in Detroit itself. Communities like Northville, Plymouth, Brighton and Milford all have these amenities, so locally at least I don't see how the statement is incorrect.

Shollin · July-21-12, 02:24 PM

Ah yes the white devil. Responsible for Detroit's decline when they left, responsible for it's continued decline when they move back.

**nain rouge** · July-21-12, 02:26 PM

I'll admit that I'm not sure how to feel about all of this. When you try to really think about the problems in Detroit, you'll realize that everyone is at fault to some degree - it's a melting pot of our imperfections.

Shollin · July-21-12, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

I'll admit that I'm not sure how to feel about all of this. When you try to really think about the problems in Detroit, you'll realize that everyone is at fault to some degree - it's a melting pot of our imperfections.

Here's my issue with the white flight garbage. I moved to Harper Woods in 93 when the city was nearly 90% white. From 2000 to 2010 it went from 86% white to 48% white. In that same decade, crime tripled. My car was broken into a couple times. I never kept anything in the car but it's annoying coming to my driveway and finding my window shattered. Next I decided to park the car in the garage. I installed motion lights and within 6 months I catch a prowler in my yard trying to break into the garage. I then installed an alarm system. If they're breaking into my car and my garage, the house is next. Meanwhile at Eastland, people are getting carjacked and gangs are firing inside the mall. I can't even going shopping in the mall that's less than a mile away. The final straw came when my elderly neighbor was broken into and he was tied up, beaten and robbed. I said enough and sold my house for what I could and went to Sterling Heights. What am I suppose to do? I don't care that blacks were moving in. Why should I be made out to be the problem because I'm white want to live in a safe neighborhood? Also, there are many blacks who would love to leave Detroit but can't. They aren't sticking it out. Whites left Detroit in the 70's because it was the murder capital of the US.

**nain rouge** · July-21-12, 03:02 PM

Sure, there's no doubt that the black youth culture in many inner cities has been infected with an excessive glorification of criminality for decades now, and that this situation has gotten worse in metros with stark contrasts in wealth between the city and the suburbs. What began as a somewhat natural reaction to the economic and racial oppression prevalent before the civil rights movement has indeed spiraled out of control.

But it's ridiculous to blame that all on any one race or culture. That's all I'm saying. It's understandable that people would want to move out of a bad neighborhood, but what are you going to when the blight creeps up to Sterling Heights?

**DetroitPlanner** · July-21-12, 03:04 PM

Not all suburbs are idyllic white bastions of richness. She seems to forget about places like Royal Oak Twp, Hazel Park, Ecorse, River Rouge, Melvindale, Trenton, Inkster, Mt Clemens, New Haven, Waterford, Pontiac, Taylor.......

What you are seeing is a small amount of gentrification without displacement, as there are few people to displace.

Shollin · July-21-12, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Sure, there's no doubt that the black youth culture in many inner cities has been infected with an excessive glorification of criminality for decades now, and that this situation has gotten worse in metros with stark contrasts in wealth between the city and the suburbs. What began as a somewhat natural reaction to the economic and racial oppression prevalent before the civil rights movement has indeed spiraled out of control.

But it's ridiculous to blame that all on any one race or culture. That's all I'm saying. It's understandable that people would want to move out of a bad neighborhood, but what are you going to when the blight creeps up to Sterling Heights?

Blight has already crept into Sterling Heights. Go up and Van Dyke and look at all the dingy half closed strip malls, or the closed factories between Van Dyke and Mound. In terms of blight, Sterling Heights has more of it than Harper Woods. It's when carjackings start happening at Lakeside and gangs started having open warfare inside the mall is when I'll decide to leave. Sterling Heights isn't discussing closing their streets to traffic to stop crime like Harper Woods. Harper Woods, a city of about 14,000, had 42 robberies. Sterling Heights, a city of 127,000, had 35 robberies. A city then tenth the size of Sterling Heights had more total robberies. I refuse to share any responsibility in the decline of Harper Woods. I maintained my home and was involved in the community. I'm going to do what's in the best interest for myself and family. It has nothing to do with race. In fact, a lot of people in my neighborhood are Arab or Asian.

**nain rouge** · July-21-12, 03:35 PM

OK, maybe blight was the wrong word. In terms of crime, Sterling Heights definitely benefits majorly from Warren, though. Warren has an extremely aggressive police force that is the probably the most effective buffer against criminal activity from Detroit you could ask for from a suburb bordering 8 Mile. However, if Warren continues its slow decline, eventually Sterling Heights will be affected.

Shollin · July-21-12, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

OK, maybe blight was the wrong word. In terms of crime, Sterling Heights definitely benefits majorly from Warren, though. Warren has an extremely aggressive police force that is the probably the most effective buffer against criminal activity from Detroit you could ask for from a suburb bordering 8 Mile. However, if Warren continues its slow decline, eventually Sterling Heights will be affected.

I only rent. By the time that happens, I'll be dead. I only rented in Sterling Heights because it's safe, affordable, and close to my work in Troy. When I retire I'll go somewhere else. Probably St Clair Shores area and enjoy my boat. I'm not going to live where I need to arm an alarm system and keep a loaded gun by my bed side.

**Detroitnerd** · July-21-12, 04:11 PM

Sounds like a former hack is testing the waters to see if demagoguery can launch her back on the public payroll...

**Wesley Mouch** · July-21-12, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Not all suburbs are idyllic white bastions of richness. She seems to forget about places like Royal Oak Twp, Hazel Park, Ecorse, River Rouge, Melvindale, Trenton, Inkster, Mt Clemens, New Haven, Waterford, Pontiac, Taylor.......

What you are seeing is a small amount of gentrification without displacement, as there are few people to displace.

Regentrification is good.

The term has a bad name.

But the idea that people with more money want to move in is 100% good.

If you are a poor homeowner, rising property values is good for you. It helps you be less poor. You will be able to sell.

If you are a poor renter, rising property values is harder to take. You will probably have to move. There are plenty of government subsidy programs in plenty of places to help. In the meantime, more money in your neighborhood means more employment opportunities and a chance for you and your children to succeed.

This mistrust of regentrification is self-destructive. Hold onto your ignorant opinions, and live that way if you wish. But please don't get in the way of success.

**Detroitnerd** · July-21-12, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Regentrification is good.

The term has a bad name.

But the idea that people with more money want to move in is 100% good.

If you are a poor homeowner, rising property values is good for you. It helps you be less poor. You will be able to sell.

If you are a poor renter, rising property values is harder to take. You will probably have to move. There are plenty of government subsidy programs in plenty of places to help. In the meantime, more money in your neighborhood means more employment opportunities and a chance for you and your children to succeed.

This mistrust of regentrification is self-destructive. Hold onto your ignorant opinions, and live that way if you wish. But please don't get in the way of success.

Now, this is the kind of "tough shit" attitude that is destructive to the very thing you wish to cheer on. That's the sort of attitude that puts wind under the sails of potential demagogues, you know. So if you want to see tomorrow's grape-throwers catapulted into office, I recommend you keep to that attitude. It will fuel the flames of the Karen Dumases of Detroit and drive deeper divisions [[which I would have thought impossible) between longtime residents and newcomers.

You know, even the least creative proponent of gentrification could, instead of snarling "tough shit," discuss the possibility of new revenue buoying Detroit's budget. Simply noting, realistically, that, by working together, we could all have better funding for public purposes, such as the schools, recreation possibilities, etc.

I would say mistrust of somebody like you is common sense. Hold onto your "me moving in means you have to move" attitude and, I guarantee you, it will get in the way of what you perceive as "success."

**313WX** · July-21-12, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Regentrification is good.

The term has a bad name.

But the idea that people with more money want to move in is 100% good.

If you are a poor homeowner, rising property values is good for you. It helps you be less poor. You will be able to sell.

If you are a poor renter, rising property values is harder to take. You will probably have to move. There are plenty of government subsidy programs in plenty of places to help. In the meantime, more money in your neighborhood means more employment opportunities and a chance for you and your children to succeed.

This mistrust of regentrification is self-destructive. Hold onto your ignorant opinions, and live that way if you wish. But please don't get in the way of success.

Most Detroiters want gentrification. You truly believe Detroiters don't want to see the type of gentrification folks in Chicago and Philadelphia are seeing?

The problem most Detroiters have with the city's excuse for gentrification now is that it's so god damn slow and in such a small part of the city for them to even feel the benefit of it, and two it's being heavily subsidized at their expense.

**Johnnny5** · July-21-12, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Regentrification is good.

The term has a bad name.

But the idea that people with more money want to move in is 100% good.

If you are a poor homeowner, rising property values is good for you. It helps you be less poor. You will be able to sell.

If you are a poor renter, rising property values is harder to take. You will probably have to move. There are plenty of government subsidy programs in plenty of places to help. In the meantime, more money in your neighborhood means more employment opportunities and a chance for you and your children to succeed.

This mistrust of regentrification is self-destructive. Hold onto your ignorant opinions, and live that way if you wish. But please don't get in the way of success.

I agree that gentrification is often a good thing, but it's definitely not "100% good". It can drive families from neighborhoods that they may have lived in for generations and often breaks apart existing communities. For existing homeowners rising property values are only a good thing if they plan on selling, and many people do not want to leave. Also as you stated for renters the rising costs can push many residents out of the area in short order.

That being said, I don't see this happening in Detroit anytime soon. This current wave of newcomers is going to face the same stark reality that the other urban pioneers did 10 years ago. Sky high crime rates, failing schools and now a city on the verge of bankruptcy cutting its already paltry services to the edge of existence. If this city could not be turned around by the easy money of the early 2000's it's definitely not going to prosper when the economy is in the toilet.

**detroitsgwenivere** · July-21-12, 05:10 PM

I don't understand why everyone is taking the race ball and runnin with it. The article is focusing on "natives" vs. "newbies" which has much more to do with cultural differences than racial demographics, and contrary to popular belief, is starkly obvious to us long timers. Last I checked, in the ballpark of 70k white folks still lived in Detroit before this gentrification process began, and we are just as much part of this conversation as anyone, thank you very much.

The only real problem I see racially is how the press seems to glaringly omit people of color from their fluffy articles involving the recent developments in the neighborhoods downtown, when I could name 10 small businesses started by non whites in the last 5 yrs. in Corktown alone.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-21-12, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I agree that gentrification is often a good thing, but it's definitely not "100% good". It can drive families from neighborhoods that they may have lived in for generations and often breaks apart existing communities. For existing homeowners rising property values are only a good thing if they plan on selling, and many people do not want to leave. Also as you stated for renters the rising costs can push many residents out of the area in short order.

That being said, I don't see this happening in Detroit anytime soon. This current wave of newcomers is going to face the same stark reality that the other urban pioneers did 10 years ago. Sky high crime rates, failing schools and now a city on the verge of bankruptcy cutting its already paltry services to the edge of existence. If this city could not be turned around by the easy money of the early 2000's it's definitely not going to prosper when the economy is in the toilet.

Nothing's 100% --- but with the property tax increase cap in Michigan, there's not much that will 'push' anyone out of their homes -- unless they choose to do so.

Renters will get shuffled around -- growth can be painful -- we can do things to minimize the pain.

But don't let go of the vision of a prosperous future where we can all live better -- including today's poor.

**canuck** · July-21-12, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I don't understand why everyone is taking the race ball and runnin with it. The article is focusing on "natives" vs. "newbies" which has much more to do with cultural differences than racial demographics, and contrary to popular belief, is starkly obvious to us long timers. Last I checked, in the ballpark of 70k white folks still lived in Detroit before this gentrification process began, and we are just as much part of this conversation as anyone, thank you very much.

The only real problem I see racially is how the press seems to glaringly omit people of color from their fluffy articles involving the recent developments in the neighborhoods downtown, when I could name 10 small businesses started by non whites in the last 5 yrs. in Corktown alone.

We need to hear more about these businesses and broadcasting the potential of not only Detroit but black entrepreneurship is vital to the future success of Detroit.

If we all would take a long hard look at events and issues in Detroit's past, tried to understand the difficult circumstances of Detroit's black immigrant community, there might be more sympathy.

A major historical trend in Detroit is the tendency for displaced people to forget their past. There is an air of planned obsolescence in the habit of habitat even that is unsettling. It really irks to read people's accounts of displacement because of crime and all the other uprootedness. Think of the afro-american displacement from harsh southern communities to a new sparkling but ambivalentlty welcoming cities of the north, Detroit; the mecca of folks on the move, chief among them.

**ConantNHolbrook** · July-21-12, 05:51 PM

I will say that in retrospect my years in Detroit often felt like I lived in a bedroom community. Attractions, restaurants, bars, yes. But gas, groceries, clothes? Before I left the suburbs after work, for reason of practicality or safety.

**rex** · July-21-12, 06:18 PM

if you were to demolish every last unoccupied factory, skyscraper, storefront, warehouse, house, and apartment building in the city of detroit it would look a bit more like michigans next rural area

**Detroitnerd** · July-21-12, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by rex

if you were to demolish every last unoccupied factory, skyscraper, storefront, warehouse, house, and apartment building in the city of detroit it would look a bit more like michigans next rural area

Yes, but dotted with skyscrapers, storefronts, warehouses, houses and apartment buildings, and quite built up in a lot of areas, especially downtown, midtown, southwest, eastern market, the area around Hamtramck, the northwest side, etc. but, yeah, other than that, it would look kind of rural, except for the roads and the sewers and pipes beneath them. But, yeah, other than all that, real, real rural.

Shollin · July-21-12, 06:49 PM

Detroit is still denser than cities such as Phoenix, Houston, Indianapolis and Dallas.

**Don K** · July-21-12, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

You might not see them in all suburbs, but you are far more likely to find those qualities in the Metro Detroit suburbs than in Detroit itself. Communities like Northville, Plymouth, Brighton and Milford all have these amenities, so locally at least I don't see how the statement is incorrect.

Yeah, but some people like to pretend that Troy and Sterling Heights are all there is to Detroit suburbs.