Pugh has Older Gentleman Beat Out of Council Meeting

**Gannon** · July-11-12, 09:09 AM

I ran into this gentleman a few times during the open discussion about the city charter. Every one of his points, every time he voiced them, were salient and appropriate and to the point. He is a true gentleman from an earlier age.

I can see exactly how this whole thing played out...it is obvious that City Council is out-of-control. As usual. He says Puke plays favorites, and this elder activist certainly ain't one of 'em.

He should get at least the amount of Puke's salary out of the city, and EVERYONE working with the Clowncil involved in this outrage should get penalized accordingly. Puke, for making the order, should be penalized the most. The officers, for complying forcibly with an unethical order, should get hit, too. Maybe with a proportional amount force that they put upon this most SENIOR of citizens during the ejection!

Sincerely,
John

**rb336** · July-11-12, 09:20 AM

90 seconds? that is totally absurd. What can you say in 90 seconds?

**Gannon** · July-11-12, 09:37 AM

I thought I put this in the Discuss Detroit section...help me, mods! [[sorry to make extra work for ya...)

**firstandten** · July-11-12, 09:57 AM

First of all I don't know how this topic got over on the non-Detroit side usually its the other way.

I get sick of these activist [[and I use that term loosely) getting up and droning on and on about every subject known to man.

Look the guy had 90 seconds, he had actually made his point but wanted to go on. Pugh had enough and had him ejected.

Look, I'm no fan of Pugh, I don't even think he's that good of a councilperson but he was within his right to do what he did.

In Detroit we have a whole culture of activist / obstructionist folks many of them seniors who have nothing better to do than complain without offering a workable solution. I've seen it in school board meetings and council meetings.

If you want to speak follow the rules and make sure you make your point within the time allotted, it can be done. These people want to become the show and hear themselves speak.

I hope the city holds fast on the lawsuit I wouldn't give the guy a dime.

**kenp** · July-11-12, 10:11 AM

Pugh doesnt have time for all this banter. He's gotta a city to run, and clubs to go to.
I heard he is thinking about being mayor.
Seriously, if you let every Tom, Dick & Harry ramble on and on you wont get anything done [[at least in most cities). 90 sec's is fine to me, he shouldnt have been kicked out though.

**Meddle** · July-11-12, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by kenp

Pugh doesnt have time for all this banter. He's got ..... clubs to go to.

There. Fixed that for ya'

**rb336** · July-11-12, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

I get sick of these activist [[and I use that term loosely) getting up and droning on and on about every subject known to man.

Look the guy had 90 seconds, he had actually made his point but wanted to go on. Pugh had enough and had him ejected.

I think it would be better to allow n speaking slots, allow 90 seconds for the person to make a statement or ask a question, let council to respond, and give the person another 90 to follow up. Just seeing how Pugh operates, he wants to shut up anyone who says anything he disagrees with

**gazhekwe** · July-11-12, 04:29 PM

It seems this man has a history with council. However Council Pres Pugh's comment was unprofessional in the extreme. He should have said something along the lines of sir, your time is up, we understand your point, thank you.

I was at our city council meeting where a citizen took her FIVE MINUTES to chastise, reprimand and rebuke the council president for some perceived slight to her interest. She was quite eloquent in her displeasure. From the president's resigned demeanor and her practiced insults, it seemed to be regular occurence. At the end of her five minutes, the council president said something like, Thank you, your time is up. We will take your remarks under consideration. Please stand down. She did stand down, though it appeared she also could have continued her diatribe at length.

**firstandten** · July-11-12, 06:23 PM

One of the problems Council has with open forums is people like the gentleman[[Mr. Travis) Pugh had ejected. Like gazhekwe said they have a history with him, and there are probably several others in the same boat with Council. Pugh might have been more patient if the person had walked off the street that nobody knew and said the same exact things.

I bet Pugh knew what was coming out of the mans mouth before he even said it. I'm sure that Pugh's overall frustration with the gentleman was evident and a reason why he did what he did.

Having said that however, Pugh has to be more professional and can't let the professional complainers get to him in that manner. The people of Detroit did not elect him to put the city at risk for lawsuits.

**detroitmale** · July-13-12, 10:38 AM

I have seen this gentleman several times come to the council meetings, cussing and fussing. They SHOULD HAD THROWN HIM OUT!!! Besides, most of them that come to the meetings, just come to get on television. They only need 90 seconds, especially when you have in excess of 20 people who want to speak, sometimes it takes over an hour and a half for them to go through public comment before they get back to the agenda. Most of the complaints, city council can't do anything about it anyway, as Councilwoman Watson so often replies, they need to take that anger out on the mayors office, go to his office!!!!

**SWMAP** · July-13-12, 10:54 AM

This man is a professional agitator. He is in with the grape-thrower Marie Thornton. Look him up on google. There is only so much time and oxygen at public meetings. its not right to take up everyone else's time with statements being repeated a hundred times.

**Scottathew** · July-13-12, 11:09 AM

I don't really like Pugh, but if they have a 90-second rule, and this man refused to stop talking when his time is up, then he can either remove himself or be removed.

**Zacha341** · July-13-12, 11:11 AM

Well stated. If we get one more lawsuit......

Originally Posted by firstandten

...Pugh has to be more professional and can't let the professional complainers get to him in that manner. The people of Detroit did not elect him to put the city at risk for lawsuits.

**Detroitnerd** · July-13-12, 11:11 AM

You put this incident together with him making threatening comments to a reporter, calling a reporter's boss to have him fired, trying to get an intern fired for having the temerity to criticize him, and you get the impression he's a brittle, fragile person who doesn't understand decorum and decency among people who disagree with you. He should go back to being what he was before: a showman.

**Danny** · July-13-12, 12:02 PM

" A friend in power is a friend lost!"

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-13-12, 12:24 PM

Since Pugh has the hot new bod, why doesn't he just toss the folks out himself?

**Zacha341** · July-13-12, 12:51 PM

He ain't trying to catch a personal beat-down!

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Since Pugh has the hot new bod, why doesn't he just toss the folks out himself?

**Locke09** · July-13-12, 02:33 PM

I honestly get the feeling that if most of the people in America were around in 1776, we would still be flying the Union Jack.

We have become soft and weak. Tow the line and don't rock the boat. "Activist" is a bad word. Be glad you have a job and don't whine about pay and benefits. I can't get a pension any more so neither should anyone else. Resistance is futile. You can't beat City Hall. Accept the inevitable.

Did I leave any of today's catch phrases out?

Whatever happened to people who respected others who stood on their principles, no matter how long they stood?

What happened to the "Give me liberty or give me death" kind of people who are responsible for this country even being in existence?

**trotwood** · July-13-12, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

This man is a professional agitator. He is in with the grape-thrower Marie Thornton. Look him up on google. There is only so much time and oxygen at public meetings. its not right to take up everyone else's time with statements being repeated a hundred times.

Agnes Hitchcock is the fruit thrower you're thinking of.

**downtownguy** · July-13-12, 07:24 PM

Wow. I have less respect for Pugh with each new day. Yes, this gentleman was out of order, but Pugh could not have handled it worse. "You act a fool at every meeting," Pugh said. A statement like that to a citizen by any city employee should be cause for a disciplinary action. That is comes from a council person, the PRESIDENT of the council at that, is totally unacceptable.

**trotwood** · July-13-12, 07:39 PM

I'm with Downtown on this. Even if Mr.Travis was out of line[[&I've seen Mr.Travis address the council before.It's often hard for him to adhere to the time limit)Mr.Pugh should have,imo,handled the situation with more tact&class. It's in poor taste,again imo,for an elected member of city government to tell someone he/she acts "like a fool".
Tacky!

**Crystal** · July-14-12, 09:04 AM

City Council needs to balance carefully its right to conduct business and the public's right to be heard. Above all it must comply with the Michigan Open Meetings Act.

It's permissible to eject someone who is being disruptive, but not permissible to attempt to stifle public comment through unreasonable rules.

Mr. Pugh's comment to the speaker was out of order and reflected poorly on the City. Mr. Pugh has a responsibility to treat all residents uniformly and impartially.

**Zacha341** · July-14-12, 10:22 AM

I guess Pugh felt he was keeping it 'real with the peeps' which was totally inappropriate. In that setting you don't say the first thing that comes to mind as a representative of the city. But hey, it's not unprecedented.

Still as someone was already commented here these meetings much 'must comply with the Michigan Open Meetings Act.' relative to speakers. Pugh's added commentary did not help...

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Wow. I have less respect for Pugh with each new day. Yes, this gentleman was out of order, but Pugh could not have handled it worse. "You act a fool at every meeting," Pugh said. A statement like that to a citizen by any city employee should be cause for a disciplinary action. That is comes from a council person, the PRESIDENT of the council at that, is totally unacceptable.

**SWMAP** · July-14-12, 11:35 AM

Most open meetings have a 2 minute per person public comment policy. Comments should not include questions of the body and if they do there is no requirement that the body must answer.Commenters sometimes have an agenda to ball up the proceedings- as if they are running a filibuster - but they have no right to mess up a meeting just because they are citizens.If you look that guy up on Google, you can see that he is a "Gadfly" and he is taking up the people's valuable time with his agenda. His crowd is always aledging abuse by the way. I hope he has pictures of his injuries [[he won't). My crazy neighbor once claimed that she ended up in the hospital after being manhandled by a police officer while being arrested. She submitted photos. One supposedly showed a bruised neck [[ she said she was choked) that the judge could not see any bruises on, AND a photo of her about 10 years younger with a different hair style and color laying in a hospital bed. My neighbor, by the way, hangs around with Sheffield and Shabazz. People like the fellow in that public meeting will say anything - try to find the proofs.

**Zacha341** · July-14-12, 12:33 PM

That's so week... you can't even get away with that on comedic court TV shows!

Originally Posted by SWMAP

One supposedly showed a bruised neck [[ she said she was choked) that the judge could not see any bruises on, AND a photo of her about 10 years younger with a different hair style and color laying in a hospital bed.