Detroit Rail Transit, a Proposed Solution

**mtburb** · July-10-12, 06:34 PM

Ever wondered how hard is it to traverse metro Detroit via public transit? Well, here's my solution! It serves about 95% of the urbanized Wayne-Oakland-Macomb County areas and has many lines, most converging on the Rosa Parks Transit Center! It's so big it had to be put on three pages! Ladies and gentlemen, here it is, a transit solution for Detroit!

I literally spent about a day back in May whipping this system up, but never bothered to show it to anyone until now. What do you think?

**Detroit Stylin** · July-10-12, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Ever wondered how hard is it to traverse metro Detroit via public transit? Well, here's my solution! It serves about 95% of the urbanized Wayne-Oakland-Macomb County areas and has many lines, most converging on the Rosa Parks Transit Center! It's so big it had to be put on three pages! Ladies and gentlemen, here it is, a transit solution for Detroit!

I literally spent about a day back in May whipping this system up, but never bothered to show it to anyone until now. What do you think?

You have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many stops.....but aside from my brief overviewits seems pretty cool....

**professorscott** · July-10-12, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

You have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many stops.....but aside from my brief overviewits seems pretty cool....

Shoot, man, somebody send me a check for $20 large and we'll break ground next Monday.

**wolverine** · July-10-12, 08:55 PM

It's cool, but wow there's a ton of stops!!! Though oddly the number of stops on the Woodward line seems reasonable.

**casscorridor** · July-10-12, 10:08 PM

This plan is very ambitious, but there are some curious places left userved. Hamtramck has no service, and with the vast number of miles of track you would think Ann Arbor would also be served.

**rbdetsport** · July-10-12, 10:26 PM

I agree with everyone else that there are WAY too many stops, but the concept is really good. I like most of the spur line ideas except that the John R line should be taken through Hamtramck using Mound Road and eventually end at a connector with the Van Dyke line somewhere in Warren. Also, the spur that comes off of Woodward using the Lodge should come off at Grand Boulevard through New Center [[servicing Henry Ford Hospital) and stop in Southfield. There is no need to take it through Bloomfield Township [[unless some rich people there are donating billions...)

**DetroitPlanner** · July-10-12, 11:13 PM

Needs some EW crosstown lines. I suggest you remove Plymouth, take it down to Warren, the link up Westland, WSU, Cultural Ctr, Med Center, and Grosse Pointe. Maybe one through Birmingham / Troy.

**Hermod** · July-11-12, 04:52 AM

And Attachment 14451of course every stop will have a palatial station that is fully climate controlled with exiting little boutiques and eateries.

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 07:14 AM

Get rid of some of the stops. The stop should only be at major intersections Example: For Woodward; Grand Circus, Mack, Warren, Grand Blvd, Manchester, Six, Seven, and 8 mile. Having stops far apart from would keep the feeder busses in business.

**Junkin4Life** · July-11-12, 08:40 AM

are they planning on building a subway system or something. the should have done that over 90 years ago

**kenp** · July-11-12, 09:02 AM

Hermod: that was the chuckle of the day, so far

Nice thought out plan by mtburb, I would add something in Ham town.

**Detroitnerd** · July-11-12, 10:23 AM

Interesting. I agree with other posters that there are too many stops and the routes shouldn't bypass the densest, most walkable area in the region, Hamtramck.

But it's difficult to serve widely dispersed places like the exurbs. Sometimes you can make that happen, though. I think, in particular, of train stations in Ossining or Croton-on-Hudson in the Hudson River Valley north of New York; they have large parking lots for folks to drive to the train and then hop on. [[On weekends, when not as heavily used, the train station will also host live music shows.)

But that's heavy rail. I imagine this system is more of a light-rail system? Can you clarify?

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 03:14 PM

I agree with having a parking lot at most of the major stop such as 8 mile, Manchester, and somewhere in the midtown area. I don't think that Detroit needs a subway. The city should install a system that is easy to uninstall in the future if it is not working for the city any longer. Subways and overhead tracks in cities such as New York and Chicago are permenat fixtures which are expensive to maintain and would be very expensive to get rid of

**Detroitnerd** · July-11-12, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I agree with having a parking lot at most of the major stop such as 8 mile, Manchester, and somewhere in the midtown area. I don't think that Detroit needs a subway. The city should install a system that is easy to uninstall in the future if it is not working for the city any longer. Subways and overhead tracks in cities such as New York and Chicago are permenat fixtures which are expensive to maintain and would be very expensive to get rid of

Wow. Stasu, your statement should win some sort of award for completely misunderstanding why developers love to build near fixed-route transit. I don't think I've seen anybody get transit quite so wrong in one paragraph.

Know how they say everybody has a right to their opinion?

You don't.

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wow. Stasu, your statement should win some sort of award for completely misunderstanding why developers love to build near fixed-route transit. I don't think I've seen anybody get transit quite so wrong in one paragraph.

Know how they say everybody has a right to their opinion?

You don't.

I am glad that Detroit never had a subway system only to have it shut down in the 50s and having the problems with unused underground tunnels the could had been an burden on the city in many ways including crime. Detroit does not need a subway system today. That people mover was an expensive waste of project to build that doesn't go anywhere that minibus could had taken you.

**Detroitnerd** · July-11-12, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I am glad that Detroit never had a subway system only to have it shut down in the 50s and having the problems with unused underground tunnels the could had been an burden on the city in many ways including crime. Detroit does not need a subway system today. That people mover was an expensive waste of project to build that doesn't go anywhere that minibus could had taken you.

Again, you are demonstrating your very limited knowledge of the subject with this sort of pulled-from-the-air ruminating.

First of all, I'd like to borrow your crystal ball. It is amazing that you can not only see what the future holds, but that you can also see alternate realities so you can judge what would have happened if Detroit had built the subways planned in 1919 and later.

In fact, other than early experimental subways, such as the pneumatic train under New York's Broadway from the 1870s, I can't think of a single subway system that ever closed. Maybe some of the anti-transit folks know of some? [[Paging Mr. Hermod.)

As for the People Mover, people on here bag on the People Mover and really it doesn't make sense as a transit system. But that's not what it was intended to be. It was intended to be part of a transit system, linking transit lines on downtown Detroit's radial thoroughfares. It still may perform that function one day. Until then, it is a boutique system that doesn't take you anywhere you can't walk in about 15 minutes. But, again, you don't seem to understand the history here, so that's why I joke about you not being entitled to your opinion.

Does Detroit need a subway? It's hard to say. Does Helsinki need a subway? Detroit has hundreds of thousands more people than Helsinki, and is about twice as dense as Helsinki, but they have a subway. Does Lille, in France, need a subway? Detroit has about three times Lille's population, and a comparable density, but Lille has a subway and Detroit has none. Does another French city, Renne, need a subway? Detroit has about three-and-a-half times as many people as Renne, is denser than Renne, but Renne has a subway and Detroit has none.

So, you see, what it really comes down to is priorities. When you put a priority on mass transit, you get mass transit. When mass transit isn't a priority, you don't get good transit.

And don't bring up money. Frankly, metro Detroit is still one of the wealthiest regions in the country, and we don't even blink when discussing a $2 billion expansion of I-94 -- that gets approved by brain-dead MDOT administrators still on autopilot from the 1960s. No, the problem isn't money. It's priorities.

That and people who spout off about transit without having the faintest idea what they're talking about...

**douglasm** · July-11-12, 04:29 PM

Not a bad concept, but I have to ask if Detroit is really a hub and spoke city anymore, or a city with two or three hubs in the same way Seattle Downtown isn't the hub it used to be, what with development in the 'burbs drawing their own commuter traffic.

**coracle** · July-11-12, 06:12 PM

In 30 years I have never heard anyone in my suburb express the wish they would like to take a train to Detroit. I personally prefer to take my car into town so that I can return when I want to and not worry who is going to get on at each train stop in both directions. [[and there looks to be a lot of stops)
If it ever comes to fruition imagine the annual costs that someone will have to pick up to keep it running and prove it wasn't a pipedream.
If there is money available get rid of ALL the derelict properties and clean some of the neighborhoods up for starters and don't invest it all in Downtown.

**dtowncitylover** · July-11-12, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

I personally prefer to take my car into town so that I can return when I want to and not worry who is going to get on at each train stop in both directions.

What the hell does that mean? You're afraid someone you may not care for sit next to you? Have you ever been on a subway? bus? airplane? train? The world is full of people; it takes all kind.

**Wheels** · July-11-12, 06:38 PM

If you build it they will come!

In this case I think if you build it it will make it easier for those who are trapped in Detroit to leave.

**TheEnergizer** · July-11-12, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

In 30 years I have never heard anyone in my suburb express the wish they would like to take a train to Detroit. I personally prefer to take my car into town so that I can return when I want to and not worry who is going to get on at each train stop in both directions. [[and there looks to be a lot of stops)
If it ever comes to fruition imagine the annual costs that someone will have to pick up to keep it running and prove it wasn't a pipedream.
If there is money available get rid of ALL the derelict properties and clean some of the neighborhoods up for starters and don't invest it all in Downtown.

I truly don't get this kind of thinking. Spend money on gas, get stressed out by traffic/crazy drivers, but by golly I'm gonna drive everywhere!

I'm currently living in Incehon/Seoul, and it's amazing how efficient the transportation system here is. Granted it's one of the top 5 most populated cities in the world, but I can take the subway basically anywhere.

It's so convenient to be able to just walk one block to the subway station near my home, get on the subway, put on my music/read a book, and I'm i Seoul in 45 minutes. With a car, and all the traffic, it would take about an hour and a half.

And don't get me started on the bus system. Bus stops have screens so you can tell which buses are arriving, and the buses go EVERYWHERE.

It would be awesome to have express buses in Detroit that go to Ann Arbor and back.

But one thing that is different here, is there is no over the top dangerous crime to worry about. I don't have to worry about being robbed while waiting for the bus or the subway late at night.

**antongast** · July-11-12, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

In 30 years I have never heard anyone in my suburb express the wish they would like to take a train to Detroit.

Wow, that's some rigorous polling methodology right there. Does Nate Silver know about you?

**coracle** · July-11-12, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

What the hell does that mean? You're afraid someone you may not care for sit next to you? Have you ever been on a subway? bus? airplane? train? The world is full of people; it takes all kind.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes and yes.

**Hermod** · July-11-12, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

In fact, other than early experimental subways, such as the pneumatic train under New York's Broadway from the 1870s, I can't think of a single subway system that ever closed. Maybe some of the anti-transit folks know of some? [[Paging Mr. Hermod.)

I don't know about complete systems closing. Right off the top of my head, i can think of Boston's Green Line as a complete line that has closed. The new York subways system has closed and abandoned a large number of formerly active stations that the trains just whiz by today. Cincinnati has an abandoned subway tunnel but I am not sure if it was ever active.

http://www.abandonedsubwaytunnels.co...on_thumbs.html