15 Detroit Fire Companies closing, nearly 200 demotions

[cla1945]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18937765/2012/07/02/15-detroit-fire-companies-closing-nearly-200-demotions

This is going to have tragic ramifications for the City of Detroit. Seriously folks, keep your garden hoses close by because the arsonists are going to have a field day in Detroit from now on.

[antongast]

Whaddya mean, tragic? We're just running our government like a business. Firefighters aren't turning a profit? Out they go. Anyway, Mitt Romney doesn't believe in firefighters, and he's a man who knows a thing or two about running a business.

[313WX]

Besides the worsening quality of life for tax-paying residents in the neighborhoods [[yeah, I used to think it couldn't get any worse once upon a time too), potentially chasing more of them away, this will also end up chasing more tax-paying businesses out of Detroit due to the even higher insurance rates and poorer police presence to protect them from vagrants triggered by the budget cuts, and potentially more job losses.

[Richard]

I see this happening in other city's ,they lay them off and rehire
under the grant funds , I am not up to speed on unions but it seems
to be the popular way of diverting them.

The grants seem to be popping up just in time always.

[DetroitTeacher]

My thoughts will be with the men and women who ARE on duty every day. This puts each and every one of them in harm's way. This is also a great way to not attract any new FFs. Pretty soon, no one will WANT to work for the city and then what? FFs put their lives on the line every day they walk in to work...this will only multiply that risk a hundred times over.

[Hermod]

Whaddya mean, tragic? We're just running our government like a business. Firefighters aren't turning a profit? Out they go. Anyway, Mitt Romney doesn't believe in firefighters, and he's a man who knows a thing or two about running a business.

Last time I looked, fire fighting was the job of municipalities.

Mitt Romney is running for President of the US, not Mayor of Detroit.

Any beef you have with fire fighting in Detroit you should take up with Mayor Bing and the incompetents on the Detroit Clownsil.

[antongast]

Last time I looked, fire fighting was the job of municipalities.

Mitt Romney is running for President of the US, not Mayor of Detroit.

Any beef you have with fire fighting in Detroit you should take up with Mayor Bing and the incompetents on the Detroit Clownsil.

Who has a beef? Romney talks about running America like a business, Bing is straight-up doing it in Detroit. If running government like a business is what America wants and needs, maybe Bing should be the one to run for president.

[poobert]

Where are all the brave union-bashers that populate this board now?

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Where are all the brave union-bashers that populate this board now?

Still at work, give em a few hours they will be home at shifts end to continue the bashing...

[Detroitnerd]

For years it was: Privatize the profit, socialize the loss.

Now we're supposed to run government, which we have chosen to pile every money-losing responsibility upon since the beginning of time, like a business?

Har-de-har-har...

[Hermod]

For years it was: Privatize the profit, socialize the loss.

Now we're supposed to run government, which we have chosen to pile every money-losing responsibility upon since the beginning of time, like a business?

Har-de-har-har...

When you say "run the government like a business" you do not mean that the government has to turn a profit. It means that you staff only as necessary and you do in-house only that which makes economic sense.

What you have to break is the government methodology where the more people who report to you and the more layers of management you have under you, the higher you get promoted and the more money you make.

Government service should not be a jobs program. Government offices should be as lean and efficient as possible. That is what they mean by "running it like a business".

Think of government as a parasite. Successful parasites take as little from the host [[public) as possible so that the host stays healthy and can continue to feed the parasite.

[Detroitnerd]

I've worked for government my whole life. Trust me: Everybody who works there is incompetent!

[Detroitnerd]

When you say "run the government like a business" you do not mean that the government has to turn a profit. It means that you staff only as necessary and you do in-house only that which makes economic sense.

That's a good line, Hermod. But I don't think you really believe it across the board. If it made good economic sense to send the manufacture of armaments and weapons overseas, where they could be manufactured more cheaply, would you approve of that? No you wouldn't. Not unless it was done as proxy aid to a "friendly" military power like Israel.

What you have to break is the government methodology where the more people who report to you and the more layers of management you have under you, the higher you get promoted and the more money you make.

That's not a government innovation, Hermod. That's the way corporate America works. In fact, overseas, ratios of executive pay to worker pay are pretty modest by our standards. In Japan, it's 11:1. In Canada, 20:1. In Mexico, 47:1. In the United States, it's 475:1. I agree with you that it is a problem, but overwhelmingly in the private sector, not the public sector.

Government service should not be a jobs program. Government offices should be as lean and efficient as possible. That is what they mean by "running it like a business".

Again, a good line, but you can almost guarantee that this is happy-talk for breaking the public unions' backs. And, you know what? Sometimes, the government SHOULD be a jobs program. It would have been much better to embark on a multitrillion-dollar effort to rebuild roads, bridges and airports, establish a high-speed rail network across the country, and create millions of decent jobs than it was to "save" the banks that are basically a bunch of criminals who have bought out the government. I'm sure, though, that you're one of those who would claim that the WPA in the 1930s didn't do anything except give a bunch of lazy slobs shovels to lean on and paychecks to spend on frills like food for the families they shouldn't have had in the first place.

Think of government as a parasite. Successful parasites take as little from the host [[public) as possible so that the host stays healthy and can continue to feed the parasite.

Yes, I want the government to not do anything crazy like build roads or railroads or run schools or employ firefighters or police. I want to SAVE my tax money so I can enjoy my life in my little mud hut on the dirt road where we pass on oral traditions and fight fires with shamanistic magic.

Seriously? Government investment and high tariffs are what made this country great. The people in charge now are doing more damage to this nation than 20 million terrorists could, and all marching under the banner representing the ideology you're spouting. I just can't take you seriously when you come up with these smooth lines...

[ndavies]

So Detroitnerd, what is your solution to the problem? The city has no way to get additional funds. It's already borrowed so much money, it's bond ratings are in the crapper. It already has the highest tax rates in the state and taxes things nowhere else in the state does. It already receives a larger per person share of cash from the state than any other community. Where are you going to get the cash to pay for the salaries of the people working for the city?

If you can't raise more cash, you have to cut. It doesn't matter if you're an individual, business or government entity. IF you can't raise the cash to pay the bills you have to cut the expenses.

[Detroitnerd]

So Detroitnerd, what is your solution to the problem? The city has no way to get additional funds. It's already borrowed so much money, it's bond ratings are in the crapper. It already has the highest tax rates in the state and taxes things nowhere else in the state does. It already receives a larger per person share of cash from the state than any other community. Where are you going to get the cash to pay for the salaries of the people working for the city?

If you can't raise more cash, you have to cut. It doesn't matter if you're an individual, business or government entity. IF you can't raise the cash to pay the bills you have to cut the expenses.

Hahaha. When you argue ideology and things don't go your way, argue the facts.

What are the facts? Detroit is going broke. But it's not alone. Lots of cities are going broke. In fact, you could argue to a certain extent that the whole Western world is going broke. We are a civilization in decline. Look at Detroit. What you are seeing is the world of tomorrow, for all of us.

What's the solution? Get used to it. All the ideology in the world won't save us.

[downtown_racine]

Basically get use to working like a Mexican and look forward to a Mexico like homeland.
Unless you're part of the oligarchy.

[ndavies]

I'll argue it either way. Ideologically or factually. I left one country for it's over use of social fairness. I don't have a problem leaving another. I came to the USA to get away from the european social programs. I'll happily move on to the next low tax, high profit location. Your ideology is the same crap I heard in the UK before I left there. The only thing that saved the UK in the late 70s early 80s, was Thatcher throwing all the union people off the government dole. The exact same thing that needs to occur in Detroit.

And please, 99.99999% of all cities do not have the problems Detroit has. Not even close. Most cities know how to live within a budget. Most cities have rainy day funds to cover temporary setbacks. Their budgets may be stretched at the moment. However, recessions do not last forever, and the cities that were financially responsible will recover very quickly.
The citizens of Detroit elected officials who believed they could tax and spend themselves into an urban uttopia. Unfortunately they drove most the people who could pay for it out due to high levels of taxes, high levels of waste, high levels of mismanagement and high levels of corruption. A population will only tolerate so much cost for so little in return. The citizens of Detroit don't need leave to leave the country to get away from that mess. They only have to leave Wayne county.

So once again how are you going to fix this mess? How are you going to prevent it in the future? Your leaders have used up all the city's taxing ability and now they can't pay the obligations they signed up for. The only solutions your leaders have left you with is severe cuts or bankruptcy.

[Detroitnerd]

<long, self-satisfied rant trimmed>So once again how are you going to fix this mess? How are you going to prevent it in the future? Your leaders have used up all the city's taxing ability and now they can't pay the obligations they signed up for. The only solutions your leaders have left you with is severe cuts or bankruptcy.

Lots of question-begging there. I'll make it simple for you. The rich people have all the marbles. Places like Detroit are to be repositories for all the shit that they keep rolling downhill. The system isn't broken. The system is working. Detroit is a symbol of its victory, not its failure. We, as a civilization, are doomed because a bunch of rich people decided to play pharaoh in this country. But at least the Egyptians built pyramids. Our pharaohs build ghettos. Game over. I suggest you move onto your next abortion.

[antongast]

I left one country for it's over use of social fairness. I don't have a problem leaving another. I came to the USA to get away from the european social programs. I'll happily move on to the next low tax, high profit location.

Please do!

[313WX]

So Detroitnerd, what is your solution to the problem? The city has no way to get additional funds. It's already borrowed so much money, it's bond ratings are in the crapper. It already has the highest tax rates in the state and taxes things nowhere else in the state does. It already receives a larger per person share of cash from the state than any other community. Where are you going to get the cash to pay for the salaries of the people working for the city?

If you can't raise more cash, you have to cut. It doesn't matter if you're an individual, business or government entity. IF you can't raise the cash to pay the bills you have to cut the expenses.

You're oversimplifying the issue. Detroit's problem isn't as simple as just cutting expenses.

Look at it from a personal standpoint.

Say you had to take a 50 percent pay cut as you company is going though severe financial problems. You already not in the best of health. So now, to make ends meet, you must choose between puchasing you diabetes prescription o food. Thing is, if you body goes without one o the othe, you cells and muscles will react negatively and breakdown, huting you health even more, and potentially killing yourself.

That's the situation Detroit faces. It can't decide to only provide what services it wants & to who and risk losing moe citizens and businesses, until eventually no one's left.

[p69rrh51]

Lots of question-begging there. I'll make it simple for you. The rich people have all the marbles. Places like Detroit are to be repositories for all the shit that they keep rolling downhill. The system isn't broken. The system is working. Detroit is a symbol of its victory, not its failure. We, as a civilization, are doomed because a bunch of rich people decided to play pharaoh in this country. But at least the Egyptians built pyramids. Our pharaohs build ghettos. Game over. I suggest you move onto your next abortion.

So I work hard for my money but I have to give it to someone else who could careless about working! That seems to be the gist of all your comments why should work then?

[Danny]

July 3rd 2012.

The Fire Phantom has burned 8 abandoned Detroit homes. He wants his mantra to be heard.

[Detroitnerd]

So I work hard for my money but I have to give it to someone else who could careless about working! That seems to be the gist of all your comments why should work then?

So give up working then.

[Wheels]

So give up working then.

Ahhh yes. Join the crowd. Welcome to socialism.

No thank you!

[Detroitnerd]

Ahhh yes. Join the crowd. Welcome to socialism.

No thank you!

Hahaha. Oh, yes. Government is the problem. I know. I'm going to guess that, every day, you wake up to an alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy. Then you take a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. Then you turn on the radio to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration has determined the weather will be like, using satellites designed, built and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Then you eat a breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs that have been determined safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

Then, at the appropriate time, as regulated by U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, as well as the U.S. Naval Observatory, you get into your National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved auto and set out to work on the roads built by local, state and federal departments of transportation. Before leaving the house, you drop any mail that has to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service. Then you drop the kids off at public school, and possibly stop to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

After work, I bet you drive your NHTSA car back home on DOT roads, to a house that didn't burn down thanks to local and state building codes and mandatory government inspections. It most probably was not been robbed, thanks to the local police department.

Then, after all that, you log onto the Internet, developed by the Pentagon, and post all about how government is bad. Very bad. No socialism for me, thank you very much!

Of course, all this anti-government talk is really just coded language. You really aren't anti-government if you live like this. I bet you� are actually very pro-government, as least as it relates to improving your life and ensuring your safety and comfort.

Often, I find that people angry about "socialism" are actually opposed to is a government that improves the lives of all people. Or other people. Or those people.

But that wouldn't be you, would it?