Belle Isle Activity

[funjon1]

As a frequent visitor to Belle Isle, my curiosity has been piqued by the recent activity in the paved Grand Prix area. Many semi trailers and large tent-like structures there. I know the Detroit Grand Prix isn't happening this year, but what is going on there?

[wazootyman]

Looks like they're filming a reality show:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/906199967

[Retroit]

“[[The paddock) has been a real boon for us,� said Charlie Beckham, chief administrative officer for Mayor Dave Bing. “It gives us a lot of use without damaging the island.�

Ha! The "paddock" [[otherwise known as "concrete parking lot") itself damaged the island!

[Pcm]

As a frequent visitor to Belle Isle, my curiosity has been piqued by the recent activity in the paved Grand Prix area. Many semi trailers and large tent-like structures there. I know the Detroit Grand Prix isn't happening this year, but what is going on there?

Thank you for spelling "piqued" correctly.

[1KielsonDrive]

What're they closing or tearing down now?

[raptor56]

The city will receive $1,500 a day for the use of the paddock — $19,500 for the three-week shoot, which will be deposited in the city’s general fund.

It would be money better spent on improving Belle Isle than going to the City's general payoff fund.

[DetroitPlanner]

I heard they are building casinos on Belle Isle and connecting them to the mainland with a people mover! In addition they will be building more golf courses. A very important person said this so it must be true!

[BVos]

Hey DP,

You forgot the food court!

[DetroitPlanner]

Hey DP,

You forgot the food court!

I don't remember the food court being part of CAY's plan!

[milt721]

According to the Detroit News, they are filming a reality show called "Crash Course." If ABC picks it up, it will be on in late summer.

[Detroitej72]

According to the Detroit News, they are filming a reality show called "Crash Course." If ABC picks it up, it will be on in late summer.

Waz beat you to it, in post #2.

[EastsideAl]

The paddock has been a real boon to us - what a laugh. Maybe we should pave over the rest of the damn park, I'm sure that would make it really useful. Would be nice if, instead of filming reality shows there and trying to find some use for a big paved field, they restored our park and ripped up all that hideous concrete they poured in one of the most beautiful spots in the city for 2 weekends of auto races.

[KENSINGTONY]

Retroit and Eastsideal,no need to be so pissy about the paddock being there.It doesn't ruin the whole island.The Detroit Council of Sports Car Clubs uses it for autocross events through the summer and early autumn and it brings in many more people than would come in if it wasn't there.So for our group,yes,it HAS been a boon.It's solved a problem of finding a suitable lot that our clubs have had for years.You should come down some Sunday and see the level of spectator interest that our events create.What needs to be put in is some sort of food concession.Our participants and spectators,I think, would welcome it and then not have to go back off the island into some dicey neighborhoods to get a quick lunch.
If you want to observe unmolested greenery try the lighthouse end of the island.Each time I've gone over there it's been sparsely used and is quite a nice place to spend some quiet time.

[EastsideAl]

Well, as someone who grew up in, want to school in, and still lives in those "dicey" neighborhoods near Belle Isle, let me just say that I, and lot of the other "dicey" people who live here still use the park - a lot. And we really didn't need Mr. Penske building a big parking lot [[which they mostly won't let us "dicey" folk use anyway) on the island to get us over there. In fact, if anything, the park is actually over-used already, as anyone who has been there on a weekend evening could tell you. So I'm not sure that we really need Penske's parking lot for suburbanites to drive their zippy little cars around on in order to attract people to Belle Isle.

Look, as a former SCCA member here, I'm glad that you have someplace to autocross, I'm just not sure why it had to be accomplished by what amounted to the taking of the public's land. And not just any public land, but some of the most beautiful and well-used park land in the City of Detroit. I mean really, it's not as if there aren't enough semi-abandoned parking lots in this city already. Perhaps you could have improved one of those for your use, instead of a place that already belonged to the rest of us. And, hey, maybe you could have found one with less "dicey" neighbors too!

[KENSINGTONY]

Aw,come on Al,how often did you go to that exact spot and revel in it's"beauty"?In relation to the rest of the island,that's a very,very small space that was paved to be the paddock.The rest of the parkland wasn't affected by it.The grassy area on the other side of the Scott Fountain wasn't touched.The picnic areas to the east of the lot weren't touched.There's a large grassy area to the south of the lot[[fronting the casino) that remains.And don't forget the rest of the island-the Conservatory/aquarium area,the woods,the lighthouse area,etc.,all unaffected by the lot.
Yes,the park is over used on the weekend-it has been for many years,long before we began autocrossing there last year.If you enjoy the island that much,go during the week if you can.I've done that and found it to be quite open,pleasant,and quiet.
As for the other semi abandoned lots in the area,try getting the land owners to let us use them.The Club Council isn't prosperous enough to buy it's own lot,let alone rehab someone else's lot for them.
Oh,BTW,each time the lot on Belle Isle is used the city is paid a health sum for it's use by the host club.And when the casino is used for something[[like a wedding),we don't get use of the paddock lot.

[EastsideAl]

Aw,come on Al,how often did you go to that exact spot and revel in it's"beauty"?

Actually, all the time. Once one of my favorite spots on an island that I visit almost every weekday when I'm not out of town. And I'm almost never alone there.

[EastsideAl]

Oh, and the scenic nature of that area is why the thing was built there - so it would make a good backdrop for the TV shots of the race.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm not a fan of the paddock. I'm not a huge fan of racing, period. And I don't understand why I'm supposed to feel grateful for a few acres of concrete set in the most-used public park in the city, so that, presumably, we can attract "families" [[feel free to read white, suburban people -- for some reason, the African-American fams that have hung out on the island for years usually don't play into these plans to attract "families").

Worst of all, the paddock cuts right into the landscaping that sets off the Scott Fountain. Couldn't they have moved it a bit to the east so it didn't at least do that? It's just plopped down and takes a chunk out of the circular land around the fountain. A questionable concept gets poorly planned, badly executed and I'm supposed to be delighted, I suppose.

Finally, give this what I'd call a "regionality test." Turn the circumstances around and imagine how it would play out. How about if Penske tried to sell the city of Farmington Hills on laying a few acres of concrete in Heritage Park. He'd go to the city and tell them about all the people it would attract. Then, after they quickly agreed, he'd start pouring concrete. The residents of Farmington Hills would be delighted at all the activity, and grateful that Penske was doing all this to help bring activity to their sleepy little park. Soon, the sounds of racing would fill the summer air, and they'd throng there, "families" all.

Except you know damn well it wouldn't play out like that. The city, the residents, the environmentalists, the hikers, hell, everybody would be opposed to it. So why is it so different down here? Why are we expected to mute our protest and just suck it up because, well, you know, they didn't cover EVERYTHING with concrete, and they left SOME stuff untouched, and there's still some grass on the island, though not right there. Would Farmington Hills residents be taunted, "Oh, come on! How often did you go to that exact spot and revel in it's 'beauty'?"

Something to think about, anyway.

[jt1]

"Retroit and Eastsideal,no need to be so pissy about the paddock being there.It doesn't ruin the whole island.The Detroit Council of Sports Car Clubs uses it for autocross events through the summer and early autumn and it brings in many more people than would come in if it wasn't there."

Yep, an island park needs the blaring sound of engines revving and tires squealing. I realize that it is a problem at the park beyond this space but the last thing an island park needs is the sounds made by your activities. Bringing people to the park does not necessarily make it more pleasant.

Does your group donate money to FoBI?

"So for our group,yes,it HAS been a boon.It's solved a problem of finding a suitable lot that our clubs have had for years.You should come down some Sunday and see the level of spectator interest that our events create."

Completely missed the point of what the park should be used for. Hell, there are people that like to pick up drugs and hookers. That may bring people to my neighborhood but it certainly doesn't make it better

"What needs to be put in is some sort of food concession.Our participants and spectators,I think, would welcome it and then not have to go back off the island into some dicey neighborhoods to get a quick lunch."

So in summary - You are fine paving over a park that is supported only by the tax dolalrs of people in neighborhods that are too shady for you. Nice attitude and a fine representation of what is wrong with this metro region.

"If you want to observe unmolested greenery try the lighthouse end of the island.Each time I've gone over there it's been sparsely used and is quite a nice place to spend some quiet time."

Or we could just convert the park pack to green space and you guys could take your car events to a place that is intended for that.

[jt1]

"Aw,come on Al,how often did you go to that exact spot and revel in it's"beauty"?In relation to the rest of the island,that's a very,very small space that was paved to be the paddock.The rest of the parkland wasn't affected by it.The grassy area on the other side of the Scott Fountain wasn't touched.The picnic areas to the east of the lot weren't touched.There's a large grassy area to the south of the lot[[fronting the casino) that remains.And don't forget the rest of the island-the Conservatory/aquarium area,the woods,the lighthouse area,etc.,all unaffected by the lot."'

So does that mean you would support paving over areas of Kensington for your activities. The noise that your club brings has a negative impact beyond the paddock.

"Yes,the park is over used on the weekend-it has been for many years,long before we began autocrossing there last year.If you enjoy the island that much,go during the week if you can.I've done that and found it to be quite open,pleasant,and quiet."

Really, go f yourself. Because your group wants to run cars on the island on the weekend people should deal with it? The saem people that pay taxes to support the island shoudl have to dictate their schedule around your bullshit little activity.

"Oh,BTW,each time the lot on Belle Isle is used the city is paid a health sum for it's use by the host club.And when the casino is used for something[[like a wedding),we don't get use of the paddock lot."

Please define healthy sum. How much does your club pay per day. How much total was paid for the calendar year 2008.

[KENSINGTONY]

1)The rent money is paid to the city,not FoBI.The sum is in the thousands of dollars per year.
2)Kensington Avenue has been paved for many years.It's a street in East English Village.
3)nerd and jt1-Open your eyes,dammit,the whole park wasn't paved over-just the small area that is the paddock.The rest of the park remains as it was,good and bad.
4)Our activity doesn't prevent anyone else from using the island.And we attract many interested spectators who are already visiting the island.
5)Almost all of our cars are street legal cars,driven onto and off the island so the noise they make is nowhere near a full tilt race car.Go down by the Conservatory or the Dossin or even the other side of the casino and you can't hear our event at all.
6)I didn't miss the point of the park's usage.Hooking and drug use are illegal activities,motorsports isn't.
7)jt1,go F yourself in spades.I repeat,WE ONLY USE THE PADDOCK.THE REST OF THE ISLAND IS OPEN AS USUAL AND UNCHANGED! Get over your misconceptions,you PC whiners!Come down some Sunday and see exactly what we're about.And then tour the island while our event is happening and notice if you can hear our activity in different spots[[especially over the noise of the cycles and blaring stereos) on the island.
8)I've never been to Heritage Park so I have no conception of it's size.Is it as big as Belle Isle?

[Detroitnerd]

Based on that non-confrontational, non-pissy response, which obviously dignified our complaints about the paddock, I rest my case. These racing fans are truly princes among men.

[jt1]

1)The rent money is paid to the city,not FoBI.The sum is in the thousands of dollars per year.

- I didn't assume that the money was paid to FoBI, I was asking if you guys donate anything to it. I suspect that you don't. How many 'thousands' are we talking. I would think that 2008 numbers would be finalized so this would be an easy actual to list.

2)Kensington Avenue has been paved for many years.It's a street in East English Village.

- My bad on the assumption.

3)nerd and jt1-Open your eyes,dammit,the whole park wasn't paved over-just the small area that is the paddock.The rest of the park remains as it was,good and bad.

- And it makes the park much less appealing an inviting to those that want to enjoy a PARK. I would think this is a concept you could follow. If you think that the paddock does not make the park less appealing I recommend you open your eyes. The fact that there is still a lot of enjoyable areas on BI does not lessen the horrible impact this paddock has on the park.

4)Our activity doesn't prevent anyone else from using the island.And we attract many interested spectators who are already visiting the island.

- Attracting people to the island is not always a positive. BI is a park - I'm sure you understand the intent of parks.

5)Almost all of our cars are street legal cars,driven onto and off the island so the noise they make is nowhere near a full tilt race car.Go down by the Conservatory or the Dossin or even the other side of the casino and you can't hear our event at all.

- I have been there when there was a group of car owners running a course on the paddock. The course was made with many turns adn the drivers were driving full speed in and around the turns. The sqealing of tires was loud as hell and it is just an accident waiting to happen. To claim the noise does not impact others is a flat out lie.

6)I didn't miss the point of the park's usage.Hooking and drug use are illegal activities,motorsports isn't.

- Your assumption that those activities are condoned by those of us on the board is assinine. Fine, if you are going to use that logic then I will just assume laying nails in the paddock is perfectly legal as well. The fact that others are also making the park less appealing does not give you license to do the same.

7)jt1,go F yourself in spades.I repeat,WE ONLY USE THE PADDOCK.THE REST OF THE ISLAND IS OPEN AS USUAL AND UNCHANGED! Get over your misconceptions,you PC whiners!Come down some Sunday and see exactly what we're about.And then tour the island while our event is happening and notice if you can hear our activity in different spots[[especially over the noise of the cycles and blaring stereos) on the island.

- I have seen and heard it. The event I saw was very loud and unappealing. I REPEAT THE PADDOCK AND IT JACKASS USERS TAKE AWAY FROM THE ENJOYMENT OF THE PARKS INTENDED USE. See, we can both use caps.

8)I've never been to Heritage Park so I have no conception of it's size.Is it as big as Belle Isle?

- Ignoring the intent of the post does not lessen the point. Deferring is always easier than answering the question.

[KENSINGTONY]

Ugh.I get tired of having to repeat myself.Our activity in no way impinges upon others using the rest of the park.Others are enjoying the park for their own purposes and no one complains.
So you've seen our event down there.Good.Now to correct your misunderstanding about "driving full speed in and around turns"-The course is to be driven in as quick a time as possible.But turns cannot be taken at "full speed"-the cars wouldn't make the corners.Your grasp of vehicle dynamics is,sadly,lacking.The speed at which the car IS able to make the corner is the maximum speed.Accidents waiting to happen??????Come on.Don't be an anti car alarmist whiner.There's nothing solid on the course to hit[[we certainly don't want to damage our cars) and any spectator is kept well back from the course.
You completely dodged my statement about the people that are ALREADY there observing our event.We didn't attract them,they're already there,presumably using the park for their own enjoyment.And from what I've seen of those spectating,they enjoy it.If they don't,they leave.
There's no way you're going to convince anyone with a lick of sense that the small paved paddock area detracts from the enjoyable use and beauty of the rest of the island.You just don't want to have to admit that there's a lot more park there for people to use than the paddock and it grates on you that others can enjoy something that you don't.
Have you gone to other parts of the island while our events were running?Did you hear engines revving and squealing tires from OUR event[[not from the other folks using other areas of the park)?Try it sometime.You won't hear our cars over the general din of the other island users.

[LodgeDodger]

1)The rent money is paid to the city,not FoBI.The sum is in the thousands of dollars per year.
2)Kensington Avenue has been paved for many years.It's a street in East English Village.
3)nerd and jt1-Open your eyes,dammit,the whole park wasn't paved over-just the small area that is the paddock.The rest of the park remains as it was,good and bad.
4)Our activity doesn't prevent anyone else from using the island.And we attract many interested spectators who are already visiting the island.
5)Almost all of our cars are street legal cars,driven onto and off the island so the noise they make is nowhere near a full tilt race car.Go down by the Conservatory or the Dossin or even the other side of the casino and you can't hear our event at all.
6)I didn't miss the point of the park's usage.Hooking and drug use are illegal activities,motorsports isn't.
7)jt1,go F yourself in spades.I repeat,WE ONLY USE THE PADDOCK.THE REST OF THE ISLAND IS OPEN AS USUAL AND UNCHANGED! Get over your misconceptions,you PC whiners!Come down some Sunday and see exactly what we're about.And then tour the island while our event is happening and notice if you can hear our activity in different spots[[especially over the noise of the cycles and blaring stereos) on the island.
8)I've never been to Heritage Park so I have no conception of it's size.Is it as big as Belle Isle?

It's ugly. It also happens to be the first thing a person sees on the island. I wish it out of there. Belle Isle is supposed to be a sanctuary.