Two articles about the fire department, same day, hours apart

**rb336** · June-25-12, 12:18 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...res-in-Detroit

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

**313WX** · June-25-12, 01:03 PM

Of course...

**5speedz34** · June-25-12, 02:10 PM

It's almost like a Greek tragedy.

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 02:18 PM

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

**downtownguy** · June-25-12, 07:00 PM

"Since I became mayor, I've made public safety my top priority, and I've said I would protect the jobs of police and firefighters, but fiscal realities have made this untenable," Bing said.

How many sides of his mouth can this guy talk out of?

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs? I don't even need to go look up the budget to know that's not true. Please site the source of that factoid.

As a Detroiter, I am extremely troubled by all the cuts in the budget, but what other choice do they have? How can you cut $250 million without cutting at all in the departments that make up 2/3 of the budget?! The cuts to police and fire amount to no more than $25 or $30 million at the most. Where do you think the other $220 million or so is coming from? Everywhere else! Even though the employees everywhere else took a 10% pay cut while police and fire have not. If firefighters took a 10% paycut across the board that would probably yield the same amont of money as laying off 100+ firefighters AND they could be assured that there was enough manpower when they respond to those fires which benefits them in terms of personal safety.

**Meddle** · June-25-12, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs?

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

**Wheels** · June-25-12, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

Wasn't Puke trying to give his boy toy intern a big raise?

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

SORRY, I agree. I have found nothing about the Clowns taking any cuts.

**cla1945** · June-25-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs? I don't even need to go look up the budget to know that's not true. Please site the source of that factoid.

As a Detroiter, I am extremely troubled by all the cuts in the budget, but what other choice do they have? How can you cut $250 million without cutting at all in the departments that make up 2/3 of the budget?! The cuts to police and fire amount to no more than $25 or $30 million at the most. Where do you think the other $220 million or so is coming from? Everywhere else! Even though the employees everywhere else took a 10% pay cut while police and fire have not. If firefighters took a 10% paycut across the board that would probably yield the same amont of money as laying off 100+ firefighters AND they could be assured that there was enough manpower when they respond to those fires which benefits them in terms of personal safety.

Detroit Police and Fire took pay cuts about 6 years ago and haven't seen an increase since. Now, the administrators want them to take an even bigger pay cut, increase their health care premiums and give them less time off.

I have not seen ALL of the departments giving concessions...just a few. If ALL of the City Departments took equal pay concessions then I think you have a point, but until Pugh and the Council, Bings appointees and administrators take cuts they have no right to ask for more from police and fire. New recruits for the police department today can apply for aid from the State and get it, that's how little their salary is.

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 08:56 PM

If the city actually provides the Clowns with bodyguards/cars that is just mind boggling to me. Also, I have been wondering this for a while...why does Detroit pay for their Mayors to live in a mansion? Don't these people already have a house? It all just seems like so much waste.

**Carey** · June-25-12, 09:46 PM

Fire union chief Dan McNamara talked to Deadline Detroit last week.
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic..._be_a_disaster

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

Again, looking up the budget on the City's website would provide that info. The original poster has been invited [[by me) to back up their assertion. I'll wait. In the meantime, you can go to detroitmi.gov and go to the Budget Department where you will find budgets going back a number of years if you'd like to check for yourself.

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

SORRY, I agree. I have found nothing about the Clowns taking any cuts.

Sooooooo...where did you hear that the Mayor and City Council are NOT taking cuts?

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...pproves_2.html

Geez! It takes such little effort to find objective facts. This was the third item that came up on my Google search for "City Council cuts its own budget". Now, again, I ask, where did you hear/read that the Mayor and City Council are NOT cutting their budgets?

**Wheels** · June-26-12, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by mam2009

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...pproves_2.html

Geez! It takes such little effort to find objective facts. This was the third item that came up on my Google search for "City Council cuts its own budget". Now, again, I ask, where did you hear/read that the Mayor and City Council are NOT cutting their budgets?

restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

Did you bother to read the dam thing? Great research! It must be the reason you are so well informed!

**Hermod** · June-26-12, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Sooooooo...where did you hear that the Mayor and City Council are NOT taking cuts?

Like I said before, you turn me loose in the CAY Building with a stack of non-recourse pink slips and I can find enough clock watchers, coffee coolers, and time servers to fire and make up for the 184 fire fighters. The magic verbs to look for in their job descriptions are "coordinate, review, oversee, monitor, and facilitate". If you see those words in their JD, you can let them go without a single qualm that work won't get done.

**mam2009** · June-26-12, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

Did you bother to read the dam thing? Great research! It must be the reason you are so well informed!

Did YOU read the article, is the question. See text from the article below.

Among council's proposed revisions:

City Hall Parity: Bing's proposed budget called for a 39 percent reduction to the council budget and a 17 percent reduction to the mayor's office. Council sought parity by cutting both budgets by 20 percent, restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

TRANSLATION: The Mayor proposed a budget that cut HIS budget by 17% and the Council's budget by 39%. Once the Mayor forwarded his PROPOSED budget to the City Council, they decided instead that it was more equitable if both the Mayor's Office and the City Council budgets be cut by 20% cuts. So therefore the Council cut 20% from its own budget and 20% from the Mayor's budget. What is the percentage being cut in the Police and Fire Departments? I bet its not 20%. I'll let you do the math. Stop seeing only what you want to see.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Did YOU read the article, is the question. See text from the article below.

Among council's proposed revisions:

City Hall Parity: Bing's proposed budget called for a 39 percent reduction to the council budget and a 17 percent reduction to the mayor's office. Council sought parity by cutting both budgets by 20 percent, restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

TRANSLATION: The Mayor proposed a budget that cut HIS budget by 17% and the Council's budget by 39%. The City Council decided it more equitable if both the Mayor and the City Council took 20% cuts. So therefore the Council cut 20% from its own budget and 20% from the Mayor's budget. What is the percentage being cut in the Police and Fire Departments? I bet its not 20%. I'll let you do the math. Stop seeing only what you want to see.

Here is one of many articles. If you do a quick google search you will find too many to count.

DETROIT — So, your city is bleeding money and, according to the accounting firm Ernst & Young, will totally run out of cash by April. That, however, is just the outskirts of the volcano.
Once-mighty Detroit has billions of dollars in unfunded pension and other liabilities. The city admits it isn’t paying its bills on time.
The population is barely a third of what it once was. Throughout the last decade it declined by an average of 24,000 a year, as those who wanted a better life headed for the exits.
Those who are left are largely poor and unskilled. Nearly half the adults are functionally illiterate. Mayor Dave Bing estimated last spring that the true unemployment rate is “40 to 45 percent.”
More and more experts think a state-appointed Emergency Manager is close to inevitable. City officials, however, swear that they can and will solve Detroit’s problems on their own.
But does that mean that Motown’s City Council members are willing to give up some of their cushy perks, including vast office expenses, city cars, cell phones and free parking?
Not on your life!
They think they’ve sacrificed enough. When one of their number proposed they set a good example, it was indignantly voted down. “Let us not engage in a race to the bottom,” intoned Councilman Ken Cockrel, who served as acting mayor for eight months after Kwame Kilpatrick went to jail.
The proposed cuts were “excessive,” snorted another council member, Charles Pugh, a former TV anchor who has a long history of personal financial problems and fighting eviction notices.
Besides, Detroit’s City Council is one of the most expensive in the nation. So he formally proposed council members voluntarily cut their own budgets by 30 percent.
Despite an earlier modest cut, Detroit’s nine council members are still among the best paid in the nation. Each makes $73,181, except the council president, Charles Pugh, who gets $76,911.
The real expense, however, is in their large office budgets. Each council member gets more than $700,000 a year to hire employees and set up an office. Why they need such an elaborate staff isn’t immediately clear; all are elected at large and have no executive responsibility.
The people of Detroit are being scammed!! Highest paid in the nation with some of the lowest home costs? Free cell phones? Free parking? Free cars? Body Guards? How disgusting. These people should all be run out of office with pitchforks, they are destroying a great city.

**mam2009** · June-26-12, 10:55 AM

What's the date on that article, jpbolima? Which is most recent? And, if I recall correctly that was a mid-year budget cut the Council was discussing in the article you referenced and they did cut, just not as deeply as some members had suggested. So once I find a source for that, that will make TWO instances within one year where the Council cut its own budget.

**mam2009** · June-26-12, 11:09 AM

http://www.municipalinsider.com/news...troit-no-cuts/

The Detroit City Council rejected a proposal Tuesday to cut its budget by a third, saying the plan was excessive and would diminish the power of the legislative branch.
The 6-2 vote killed a proposal by Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown to reduce the budget of the council and its divisions by more than $4 million.
“Let’s not engage in a race to the bottom,” Councilman Ken Cockrel Jr. said, noting that the council cut its budget by 10% in each of the last two years. “We could end up with no staff.”

Do you wear glasses? If not, you might need to get an exam.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:33 AM

Do you wear glasses? If not, you might need to get an exam. [/QUOTE]

You are pretty defensive. What council member do you work for? It seems like you have picked up their manners! 10%, big deal. Nothing compared to the cuts they have doled out elsewhere and none of this changes the fact that they get paid more than almost any other city council members in the country and get more perks.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:47 AM

Here is another nice waste of money. The Human Rights Commission which is now written into the city charter.

The Missions Statement:

Mission
To remove discriminatory barriers through innovative, high quality, customer-driven programs that foster economic opportunity and empowerment and benefit Detroit residents, visitors, and the entrepreneurial sector of the local economy.
Major Goals
To ensure that internal and external customers are properly served
To optimize efficiencies and results by continually monitoring resources and activities
Explore alternative and innovative ways to fund and deliver services
Strategic Priorities
Accelerate Economic & Business Development
Improve Key Stakeholder Relationships [[Citizens, City Council, Employees, Business Community)

Clearly this commission isn't working, since there are still hardly any African American owned businesses in the city, which is really sad. I wonder who works in this department, what they are paid, and what the hell they are actually doing?

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:50 AM

Why does the City need City Airport? Why does each council person need their own budget, cell phone, body guard and a car while making over 70k per year when most of the city is in poverty? There is still a lot more they could do without inflicting more pain on their residents.

The 1963 Detroit City Charter says the mayor is in charge. He/she has all the responsibility/authority/ accountability to run the City. The Council is nothing more than a well-paid debating society of useless idiots.

**Meddle** · June-26-12, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

You are pretty defensive. What council member do you work for?

I don't know, but it sure seems like there's some connection based on some of the previous posts about the consent agreement and the corporation counsel's suits.

I can't see how anyone without a connection to the Clowncil would defend them in any way.