10pm shutdown- Riverwalk downtown portion. WHY?!

[Mackinaw]

After an excellent dinner downtown my family and I wanted to take a post-dinner stroll along the river-- just the promenade portion by the Ren Cen.

No can do. Brushed away by Detroit bike cops at 10:04pm upon setting foot off the sidewalk. Even the park benches closer to the sidewalk were not accessible-- the whole riverwalk closes at 10.

Questions:

1) why enforce the early closing during the beautiful summer months...when it only gets dark a few minutes before 10 and people are out/about?

2) why enforce the early closing on a weekend, when more people are apt to use the recreational space? There are all those restaurants right there in the Ren Cen; I was done eating at 10. Some people were still sitting down to eat at that time and the place was still full. 10pm is not a reasonable hour to shut down in light of the hours of nearby establishments and events.

3) why not make an exception for the downtown promenade part? There are tons of likely users right there with the restaurants and the Marriott Hotel. This is quite a cold shoulder to lots of likely first-time Detroit visitors staying at the hotel, and the public at large who choose to spend their evening at a riverfront venue...because of the riverfront.

4) why station at least 5 cops right there at the promenade alone, with the simple duty of shooing people away and making productive public space unproductive and dead? If you're going to hire five cops for one small space, why not have them do something constructive/productive role-- i.e. surveil the area while people enjoy the park?


That the waterfront and premier public space of one of our biggest and most important cities closes at 10pm on a summer weekend evening is, quite frankly, bogus. To the extent that we still embrace that old Mayor Archer quote "it's a great time in Detroit" [[which arguably kicked off the movement of getting people to stay and play downtown and to enjoy rather than avoid the city), the current use of the waterfront is absolutely not in keeping with this ideal. Very sad.

[eastland]

It may have something to do with gang activity. The police are concerned about gangs doing something at the fireworks.

[antongast]

Because official Detroit views its people as a nuisance and a threat.

[lukabottle]

My friend and I were also asked to leave a few minutes after 10pm. It is a safety issue. We could all pay to use the Riverwalk to cover the cost of the security. I rather leave at 10pm.

[compn]

they dont want that news story that ends up every year '2 dead, 3 shot in crowd @ riverfront fireworks'. is it reasonable to shut the whole place down at 10pm? no. do they have any better ideas? no. will the people who shoot into crowds , just shoot into crowds at another venue? yes. if you think people will pay cover to enter the secured riverfront area, try calling some private security force or even the police association to see if they have any officers who will work off-duty for $$$. mayor bing isnt gonna do it, where are the 'community organizers'?

[SWMAP]

Because Detroit doesn't just view some people as "a nuisance and a threat," it has been verified that nuisance and threatening behavior escalates after 10pm. If people behaved as they did when crowds would sleep peacefully on Belle Isle on hot summer nights [[my grandmother often talked about taking her sleepless babies there) then likely there woundn't be such a policy.

[Joseph C. Krause]

Agree completely with the first poster. Last Summer, I was shooed away at *9* PM after walking for 30 minutes for the sole purpose of getting to the riverfront. The reason? "Some people got in a fight." I don't doubt it. But what a bunch of babies to shut it all down for that alone.

Regarding paying to use it -- I *did* purchase a brick at Rivard Plaza [["Zelda and the Unibrows"). Perhaps I should remove it overnight.

I tend to be up at all hours. I have gone to GM Plaza at 4AM when not even a single security guard is there. I was the only human, and classical music played from the outdoor speakers. They just want to bully people at closing time and then cease their patrol once people are gone. Embarrassingly terrible.

[JBMcB]

Agree completely with the first poster. Last Summer, I was shooed away at *9* PM after walking for 30 minutes for the sole purpose of getting to the riverfront. The reason? "Some people got in a fight." I don't doubt it. But what a bunch of babies to shut it all down for that alone.

It does suck, but in that case it kind of makes sense. The move seems to be, after getting in a fight, go to your home/car and retrieve your piece, and go back to the scene of the fight blasting to show what a tough guy you are. The easiest way to prevent that is to shut down the site of the fight, if possible.

[Mackinaw]

Well I guess I understand the impetus now, but I still do not think the reaction is the right one.

If the cops are going to be there, then they should be patrolling and protecting everyone who is there to enjoy themselves. If people misbehave regardless, then I guess they are incouragable savages, but the occasional late night fiasco should not mean that the public space gets ruined for all time and all people.

I agree with JC Krause. This is the big city. Shit will happen. But move on, and consider whether taking things away from the public at large could possibly make the city better.

[Bham1982]

Riverwalk security is privately funded, so maybe they don't have additional cash for late-night security.

10 PM doesn't sound like a crazy closing time. Maybe a little early, but nothing ridiculous. This is essentially a privately funded and operated park, you know, so the private sector is calling the shots. It isn't really, truly a public space.

[lukabottle]

I guess during the Occupy Protests, a sign was put up that said Grand Circus closes at 10pm.
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...d-circus-park/

According to the Friends of Palmer Park, it also closes at 10pm.
http://peopleforpalmerpark.org/visit/

Campus Martius closes at 10 on weekdays, Campus Martius Park Hours of Operation Monday - Thursday 7am - 10pm.
http://www.campusmartiuspark.org/hours_dir.htm

[Bobl]

SWMAP is correct, in my opinion:

"...If people behaved as they did when crowds would sleep peacefully on Belle Isle on hot summer nights [[my grandmother often talked about taking her sleepless babies there) then likely there woundn't be such a policy..."

I slept peacefully on the Belle Isle beach many times, decades ago.

It is sad that one must cross the river to enjoy the riverfront, undisturbed, late at night.

[Detroitdave]

Its sad but I have to agree, The riverwalk needs to be close at 10pm , no later than 11pm and we ALL know why. the riverwalk is family friendly and if something negative happens the press will be all over it and it will drive folks away in DROVES.
Some people ruin the fun and peace for all :-[[ well all have to pay for their unsocial behavior.

[1953]

You can't close the public riverfront; this is nonsense. The people deserve access to the water at all hours of the day. Do the French close the Seine? The British close the Thames?! Of course not. This is absurd.

[jcole]

It's right on the Riverwalk Conservancy webpage that the hours are:

Detroit RiverWalk and Dequindre Cut Greenway
7 Days a Week:
6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
[[Extended hours will apply for various special events and concerts throughout the year.)

It really shouldn't be a big surprise.

[SWMAP]

Do the French close the Seine? The British close the Thames?!

I think it is terribly punishable to carry a firearm in both of those countries - let alone shoot them off in crowds. So here we have to have different policies.

This report posted here recently: one dead on Detroit Riverfront - two others in crowd wounded

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...issance-Center

[Detroitnerd]

Well, I hate to be the sole person pointing this out, but, you know what generally makes a place safer? People out and about, all potential witnesses, and police to be on hand in case somebody needs help.

Sounds like somebody made a stupid decision.

[Wheels]

You can't close the public riverfront; this is nonsense. The people deserve access to the water at all hours of the day. Do the French close the Seine? The British close the Thames?! Of course not. This is absurd.

Canada doesn't close the Detroit riverfront either.

Different clientèle!

[Zacha341]

Is the riverfront closed at Hart Plaza? Just curious as the festivals used to go until 11-11:30 PM... are the festivals to close by 10 as well?

Well, I hate to be the sole person pointing this out, but, you know what generally makes a place safer? People out and about, all potential witnesses, and police to be on hand in case somebody needs help.

Sounds like somebody made a stupid decision.

[jcole]

Is the riverfront closed at Hart Plaza? Just curious as the festivals used to go until 11-11:30 PM... are the festivals to close by 10 as well?

Once more. See bolded portion:

Detroit RiverWalk and Dequindre Cut Greenway
7 Days a Week:
6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
[[Extended hours will apply for various special events and concerts throughout the year.)

[1953]

Detroitnerd hit it on the head: vitality prevents crime; its not the other way around.

That said, this thread is akin to the discussion on Curbed Detroit that blamed them for the sacking of the Van Dyke Mansion. You can't blame a news paper for reporting on real estate when a crime happens, just like you can't blame the river walk for criminals. If there is crime happening, it needs to be policed, but you don't close the town down - that only hurts the good guys.

[jcole]

City parks close at 10; they have for years. They are probably basing the closure on that. Why pay for private security on nights when there are no events bringing in revenue.

[socks_mahoney]

I went to the riverfront this morning at about 4:30 am. My lady goes to work at 4 so I usually get up with her and then go for a long morning bike ride. There were fences blocking off the west part of the riverwalk in front of the Ren Cen but you could easily go around them, and there was no fencing on the east side. Didn't see any dangerous kids. I did however talk to some crazy old man who was asking me "what does the tree give us for the leaves and the sun and the mother". I told him "fruit" he crossed himself and walked away. Maybe we should ban crazy old people, then again, I kinda liked him.

[Zacha341]

^^^ If that crazy old man is the worst you can run into that late at night we have no problems at all. Those types are harmless.

[Zacha341]

Thank YOU!

Once more. See bolded portion: [/B]