Ok, let's say Joann Watson is right.

**corktownyuppie** · June-11-12, 02:56 PM

Ok. Let's play this out.

- The State realizes that they do owe the $240MM or whatever in revenue sharing.
- The Consent Decree is voided, but the $80MM bond stays in effect.

That $320MM allows the city to operate, business as usual, for 6 months. Maybe 9 months. During this time, the EM law and Public Act 4 is struck down for one reason or another.

At some point in early 2013, the city now runs out of money.

Now what?

Because if you can't answer that question, all you've done was waste $320MM. Is your argument that we should take the $320MM and use it to force residents to densify so that we can cut our carrying costs on infrastructure? Is your argument that we should use it to buyout older, more expensive cops so that we can rehire twice as many younger, less expensive patrolmen?

Or is your argument that we should just spend through it over the next 9 months? And then we'll be right back where we are today. Begging the state for cash.

So, look. Joann is right. Let's quit arguing about it. Now, Detroit, please tell us what are we going to to do so that we prevent ourselves from ending right back where we are right now.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · June-11-12, 03:04 PM

I honestly think Joann Watson is as dumb as a box of rocks, in fact, I think a box of rocks might have a higher IQ. [[I'm not joking, I really think she is that dumb) So, to use logical thinking in examining her thought processes is useless.

**Richard** · June-11-12, 03:14 PM

well we already know it is all your fault anyways.

I would think at this point everybody kinda knows what needs to happen imho
Fight with the neighbors and fight with the state the city is to big to build a wall around and hide inside.

The bonds are frozen at this point there is no where else to borrow the money there is no money coming in and the people in the street need help and services.The city is being demolished and burned building by building and to many are running rampant with no recourse to their fellow citizens.

Set up a big round table get everybody together and work this out like adults and maybe even show the rest of the world that this is not how it is done in Detroit.This is becoming borderline silliness.

**professorscott** · June-11-12, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Set up a big round table get everybody together and work this out like adults and maybe even show the rest of the world that this is not how it is done in Detroit.This is becoming borderline silliness.

The only word I object to in Richard's entire post is "borderline". We are deeply in the center of silliness. We crossed the border a long damned time ago.

**cla1945** · June-11-12, 05:31 PM

As long as there is a question of "who has the power" in the CAY building, the City will not move forward. Ms. Watson and her cohorts want to be in total control of Detroit, they do not want nor do they welcome any help from the State. Ms. Watson and her cohorts feel that Detroit belongs to them and they will not relinquish a square foot to an "outsider".

IMHO, they would rather see the City destroyed before they would desist from this fruitless battle. They will watch as Detroit takes it's final breath; they will watch the employees fight creditors and banks looking for their payments that were not paid because of payless pay days. They are a group of selfish, self-serving politicians who have no interest in moving Detroit forward.

**corktownyuppie** · June-11-12, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

As long as there is a question of "who has the power" in the CAY building, the City will not move forward. Ms. Watson and her cohorts want to be in total control of Detroit, they do not want nor do they welcome any help from the State. Ms. Watson and her cohorts feel that Detroit belongs to them and they will not relinquish a square foot to an "outsider".

IMHO, they would rather see the City destroyed before they would desist from this fruitless battle. They will watch as Detroit takes it's final breath; they will watch the employees fight creditors and banks looking for their payments that were not paid because of payless pay days. They are a group of selfish, self-serving politicians who have no interest in moving Detroit forward.

I'm still waiting for an answer from those who want to fight consent decree. If the state pays us the money they allegedly owe us, we will be right back here sooner rather than later. So then what?

The silence is deafening.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-11-12, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

As long as there is a question of "who has the power" in the CAY building, the City will not move forward. Ms. Watson and her cohorts want to be in total control of Detroit, they do not want nor do they welcome any help from the State. Ms. Watson and her cohorts feel that Detroit belongs to them and they will not relinquish a square foot to an "outsider".

IMHO, they would rather see the City destroyed before they would desist from this fruitless battle. They will watch as Detroit takes it's final breath; they will watch the employees fight creditors and banks looking for their payments that were not paid because of payless pay days. They are a group of selfish, self-serving politicians who have no interest in moving Detroit forward.

I would love to see the politicans get their just rewards for their actions. But when a payless payday comes along -- you'll see things happen that you wouldn't believe.

There's something about not having money to pay your personal bills. It opens your mind to new possibilities.

**corktownyuppie** · June-11-12, 05:45 PM

Believe it or not, maybe it might need to come to that in order for people to wake the hell up. Wait til Detroit starts pulling a California and paying their bills with IOUs. It's like a bad version of the Dumb and Dumber ending.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-11-12, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Believe it or not, maybe it might need to come to that in order for people to wake the hell up. Wait til Detroit starts pulling a California and paying their bills with IOUs. It's like a bad version of the Dumb and Dumber ending.

It will take that. Until that day comes -- everyone just thinks this is a joke. There's always been money, and there always will be money. We shall see.

This is a giant game of chicken.

[[And I continue to hope Joanne prevails and chases Lansing away. The bigger the fall, the more reform we'll get.)

**Hypestyles** · June-12-12, 12:26 AM

I wonder what will happen come Friday, and no "compromise" has been reached.. this is more mayhem than ever before.. city employees and residence are going to get hosed..

**Wesley Mouch** · June-12-12, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

I wonder what will happen come Friday, and no "compromise" has been reached.. this is more mayhem than ever before.. city employees and residence are going to get hosed..

City employees may get hosed.

City residents have been being hosed for years. So it gets a bit worse for a while. That's nothing new.

Recommended slogan for Synder: "Stop the Hosing!"

**Zacha341** · June-12-12, 06:54 AM

Rhetoric! The so-called 'control' was given away in the years of winking at corruption and justifying fraud. Let this thing get into payless paydays and what not you'll see control all right!

Originally Posted by cla1945

Ms. Watson and her cohorts want to be in total control of Detroit, they do not want nor do they welcome any help from the State. Ms. Watson and her cohorts feel that Detroit belongs to them and they will not relinquish a square foot to an "outsider".

**corktownyuppie** · June-12-12, 07:01 AM

Not sure if I understand... if it gets into payless paydays, what are you saying Watson would do?

**Zacha341** · June-12-12, 07:06 AM

Dig into her saving account at some point... I hope she has one! The absence of 'cash flow' will affect most after a bit of time. Some that first absent check!

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Not sure if I understand... if it gets into payless paydays, what are you saying Watson would do?

**corktownyuppie** · June-12-12, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Dig into her saving account at some point... I hope she has one! The absence of 'cash flow' will affect most after a bit of time. Some that first absent check!

lol. I hope they can resolve it before that point. But if they can't, I want Watson to author the resolution requesting the State for financial assistance.

**cla1945** · June-12-12, 07:30 AM

Ms. Watson should have a rainy day fund for emergencies, like payless paydays, because she, unlike the good citizens of Detroit and employees who follow the rules and pay their taxes, showed her true colors about how she really feels...

"A Detroit City Council member who paid $68 in property taxes this year because city records indicate her home doesn't exist, said she thought damage caused by a tornado was the reason her bill was so low.
But JoAnn Watson couldn't recall exactly when the tornado struck her well-kept brick, Tudor-style home on the city's west side, saying it might have been 1993 or 2002. She said she was unaware of a city records discrepancy that has for the past decade listed the parcel as an empty lot, despite the home occupying the plot since 1926."

This, from a woman who claims to "care" about Detroit.

**corktownyuppie** · June-12-12, 07:43 AM

Wow.

Well, before this thread becomes one giant Watson hate-fest, back to the issue. Even if we get the $240MM, what are we going to do once it's gone? Were talking weeks to months at best.

**cla1945** · June-12-12, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Wow.

Well, before this thread becomes one giant Watson hate-fest, back to the issue. Even if we get the $240MM, what are we going to do once it's gone? Were talking weeks to months at best.

Personally, I don't "hate" Ms. Watson. The facts speak for themselves about her record. As I was watching the Council meeting yesterday morning with Mayor Bing, there was a person sitting behind Ms. Watson and every time she spoke the person was jumping up from their seat, making very agressive moves, was very animated with fists in the air, [[which I didn't understand why the person wasn't ejected from the meeting for disrupting it).

I am very worried about what is going to happen in the City of my birth this summer. Tensions are very high and representatives like Ms. Watson don't help calm things down at all...she seems to revel in stirring the pot.

Also, a question for those who may know the answer. If there are payless paydays, are there any departments that are "required by law" to remain on the job or can employees stay home until the City decides to pay their salaries and, of course, if they don't pay the salaries, will healthcare benefits stop as well.

**trotwood** · June-12-12, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'm still waiting for an answer from those who want to fight consent decree. If the state pays us the money they allegedly owe us, we will be right back here sooner rather than later. So then what?

The silence is deafening.

I'd love to be in council chambers as you posed that question to Ms.Watson. It's a reasonable valid question.
Nevermind......she'd never allow you the chance to get the question out before interrupting.

**corktownyuppie** · June-12-12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by cla1945

I am very worried about what is going to happen in the City of my birth this summer. Tensions are very high and representatives like Ms. Watson don't help calm things down at all...she seems to revel in stirring the pot.

Also, a question for those who may know the answer. If there are payless paydays, are there any departments that are "required by law" to remain on the job or can employees stay home until the City decides to pay their salaries and, of course, if they don't pay the salaries, will healthcare benefits stop as well.

Very pertinent question, indeed. The Governor said,

Gov. Rick Snyder said today that Detroit is in a "crisis" and if the city runs out of money, he is ready to act to protect Detroiters and the state.Stopping short of saying he'll appoint an emergency manager, Snyder said that if the consent agreement is breached, there are a "variety of steps" to follow through on first.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1xbBGniVL

My bet is that if the city runs out of money, the state will authorize the Wayne County Sherriff's office and Michigan State Police to assume the patrol and responsibilities of the entire City. Similar for Ambulance.

The state would use funds from the state coffers and then once the city goes into bankruptcy/em/consent agreement, require the city to pay back for the services from the proceeds of the bond issue.

One good thing about "being broke". You no longer have to worry about negotiating layoffs. Everyone is laid off. Now everyone can start reapplying for jobs in the places that need hiring. Areas that are more "wants" than "needs" can be put on the back burner. And we can focus on the thing that's really most important....services to the residents.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-12-12, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

Also, a question for those who may know the answer. If there are payless paydays, are there any departments that are "required by law" to remain on the job or can employees stay home until the City decides to pay their salaries and, of course, if they don't pay the salaries, will healthcare benefits stop as well.

Will be fun to watch the panic set in as employees realize they've killed the golden goose.

Healthcare typically stops at the end of the period for which you've paid your premiums. But the city might be self-insured. Does anyone know?

Regardless, I think the city's obligation to cover employees will remain, regardless of whether they have money today to pay.

But once the city's checkbook doesn't work, health providers may start declining treatment unless someone 'insures' that they will eventually be paid.

I would stock up on meds and quickly get treated if I were a city employee.

**jackie5275** · June-12-12, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'm still waiting for an answer from those who want to fight consent decree. If the state pays us the money they allegedly owe us, we will be right back here sooner rather than later. So then what?

The silence is deafening.

If the state pays the money owed, the city gets a few months reprieve as far as having cash flow. The runaway train of the consent agreement/lawsuit gets a few more feet of track before crashing into an EFM barrier.

**webband1** · June-12-12, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

If the state pays the money owed, the city gets a few months reprieve as far as having cash flow. The runaway train of the consent agreement/lawsuit gets a few more feet of track before crashing into an EFM barrier.

That is exactly the point. If the state gives the city more money, it just prolongs this silliness. Though maybe there is some value into pushing this crisis back until the cold weather kicks in - less chance for the heat to aggravate things further.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-12-12, 02:30 PM

As this descends into comedy -- it begin to think the Watson, et. al. have some real motivation to push this back.

I thought it was stupidity. Or pandering to the electorate.

Perhaps there's something more... what could it be?

Something the State will discover that might be inconvenient for the anti-State team?

That would make this insane resistance using Ingham County courts, alleged unpaid water bills, and an insubordinate law department make some sense.

Hmmmm.

**Locke09** · June-12-12, 03:34 PM

Actually, if the state does owe the city 240 million [[or close to 300 million or whatever) and pays it, then it doesn't just buy the city a few months. What it does, in conjunction with the greatly reduced budget, is allow the city to eliminate its deficit. The city does not have to try and live off of 240 million dollars. The city gets revenue beginning in August for property taxes. It gets revenue in the form of revenue sharing - I think quarterly. It gets revenue from income tax and parking tickets and a number of other sources.

If the city in fact sticks to its more austere budget, and makes some other adjustments whether it has a consent decree or not, then I think 240 million dollars would put the city in a very good place.

So the only valid points are whether the city can do a better job of revenue projection and realistic budgeting, and whether the state really does owe the money. All else is just slander of a woman none of you probably even personally know. Neither do I, therefore I have nothing good or bad to say about her. I will say that I respect people willing to face the wrath of public opinion to stand on their principles.

Don't even bother - we don't get to choose what principles a person has.