Packard Camper Fire [[photos and video)

[mauser]

I know Packard is on fire every few minutes, but this one was HUGE ! And weird.

Heres photos:
http://detroitfunk.com/?p=9024

Heres video:
http://youtu.be/I82MlRJzyb0

Anybody know what really happened here ?

[downtown_racine]

Man there ain't no party like a Detroit party.
All that's left now is scrap metal. Should be gone in a couple days.

[Traxus]

****ing kids. What a monumental waste of time and manpower. Nice write up but I really wish this kind of stuff could go unreported as to not encourage the behavior.

[Wheels]

What happened to the big fence and the demolition?
OK i'll shut up!

[mauser]

****ing kids. What a monumental waste of time and manpower. Nice write up but I really wish this kind of stuff could go unreported as to not encourage the behavior.

Agreed, but this fire was a little too huge for nobody to notice. I still think the larger question is why the arson investigators do not go in to arrest the scrappers that light large fires in there every single day.

[Richard]

Arson conducts investigations of fires or explosions deemed suspicious that involve loss of life, injury or destruction of property. Perpetrators are arrested and prosecuted.

Mr. Parham do you follow your mission statement or just collect a check?

Sec. 7-504. Fire Marshal.
The Fire Marshal shall inquire into the origin of all fires resulting in property loss and shall make a writtenreport concerning every such fire to the Fire Commissioner, the Chief of Police, the Wayne Countyprosecuting attorney, the Detroit Board of Underwriters and any person legitimately interested in thematter.

[Zacha341]

Hmm, with the last estimate of my car repair I started to drive and perch it up there beside that hulk, and put forth a match!

I know Packard is on fire every few minutes, but this one was HUGE ! And weird.

Heres photos:
http://detroitfunk.com/?p=9024

[mauser]

Well Zacha - since the City has seemingly sanctioned arson at Packard with no legal repercussions, it would seem to be permissible. People do bring cars and vehicles there to burn for insurance purposes on a regular basis.

Is there no environmental impact from burning that big place into the atmosphere every day ? Are we past caring about stuff like that ? Then why not just do a big dirty illegal demolition ? [[like they usually do)

[Richard]

The biggest problem with Packard is every time it is mentioned they throw out the 3.5 million sqft foot thing even though it ceased being that large years ago.

Most cases it would not matter but in this case it becomes an ego and a precieved threat locally.

Why ? Because if it was 3.5 million sqft who ever bought it would instantly become the largest sqft owner behind GM in the city and that in it self carries a bit of weight and there are those who deem that as a threat either to thier ego or whatever reason.

Secondly if it was still 3.5 million sqft and someone put 10 million into it for use as strictly warehouse space one could rent that space out at $1 per sqft and still have a very nice return in less then a year.or even 50 cents a sqft.

The drawback for the city would be is that if once again if it was 3.5 million sqft and that was the case it would effectively kill the entire warehouse market for the city for quite some time.

So you can kinda see why there is motivation based on precieved thoughts on what could happen to make sure it does not happen.

Any other city the fire marshal would be all over this because if somebody has no qualms about starting a fire here why would they not continue elsewhere where it may cause a loss of life,and allowing it to continue without recourse sends the message that it is an acceptable behavior.

In a city that has tall buildings but has no fire trucks that can safely shoot water into the building without putting the firefighters at risk? If I did not see the pictures of trucks spraying water on buildings I would have thought no.

But it is easier to say do not call us if it is burning but if the fire marshell was doing his job and in public out there saying and proving arson will not be tolerated they would not have that problem anyways.

So in theory he is by condoning arson putting the lives of the firefighter at risk which in itself should call for removal.

[Wheels]

Secondly if it was still 3.5 million sqft and someone put 10 million into it for use as strictly warehouse space one could rent that space out at $1 per sqft and still have a very nice return in less then a year.or even 50 cents a sqft.

There are MILLIONS of square feet of warehouse space available all over Detroit not to mention the Meto area. Why would adding more have any value?

[Richard]

There are MILLIONS of square feet of warehouse space available all over Detroit not to mention the Meto area. Why would adding more have any value?

Rates are anywhere from .85 up to 3.50 psft.

Its the location ,rail,highway,unobstructed traffic movement,no employee parking issues,can easily be served by public transportation from downtown Detroit to downtown Hamtramck to the GM plant,room for expansion within the footprint. etc. etc.

Some see a city block long roof with holes,I see a city block long roof lined with solar panels providing power and collecting water run off for reuse.

If you look at it as a burnt derelict building you will see it as a burnt derelict building.

[Occurrence]

The biggest problem with Packard is every time it is mentioned they throw out the 3.5 million sqft foot thing even though it ceased being that large years ago.

They also like to throw out it has been abandoned for over 50 years. I believe the city seized the property and kicked all the business out around 1999/00.

These idiots must be bad at math. If the place was vacated 12 years ago, where do they get the "over 50 years" number?

[mauser]

I honestly think the media folks routinely mix up "Packard vacated 50 years ago" with "Packard vacant for 50 years".

[WaCoTS]

if they can't be bothered to use spellchecker, why would they care about a trifling factoid like that?

their math is as bad as their grammar.

[jtf1972]

The scrappers use forklifts to move things around? These are a bit more organized than your run of the mill copper thieves.

Pack it full of explosives & quick fuses. Then, when scrappers start fires we can kill two birds with one stone... The problem is how to lure them ALL there at the same time.

[Richard]

It would be a perfect place for a sting ,I am sure that when they are done there they are not going to retire.

The comment from the "artist" bimbo was priceless reported on the day of the fire.

"I go there to paint a lot I figure it is not going to bother anybody."

I guess it does not bother her that she is trespassing and defacing others property and that is really sad.

Why does she not do the same thing in her suburb? Her ass would be in jail is probably why.No wonder the schools did not have toilet paper it was proably used up by those who like to wipe thier ass after crapping on the city then going home.Sorry for the vulgarity.

[Occurrence]

I guess it does not bother her that she is trespassing and defacing others property and that is really sad.

Why does she not do the same thing in her suburb?

- Technically she's not trespassing. The building is open like Swiss cheese everywhere, with no doors, no boards, no attempts at all the keep people out, and no signs expressing you aren't allowed in.

- The Packard Plant is located in the city of Detroit, so it would be impossible for her to paint at the Packard Plant in the suburbs. Chances are there isn't a "Packard Plant" like structure anywhere in those areas.

[Jimaz]

... - The Packard Plant is located in the city of Detroit, so it would be impossible for her to paint at the Packard Plant in the suburbs. Chances are there isn't a "Packard Plant" like structure anywhere in those areas.

True. BTW, FWIW, the abandoned factory southeast of 23 Mile and Mound is in the process of being demolished now. It's amazing how large it is and how quickly it's coming down. I believe they made Packards there at one time too.

[Richard]

- Technically she's not trespassing. The building is open like Swiss cheese everywhere, with no doors, no boards, no attempts at all the keep people out, and no signs expressing you aren't allowed in.

- The Packard Plant is located in the city of Detroit, so it would be impossible for her to paint at the Packard Plant in the suburbs. Chances are there isn't a "Packard Plant" like structure anywhere in those areas.

Breaking And Entering Or Entering Without Breaking; Buildings, Tents, Boats, Railroad Cars; Entering Public Buildings When Expressly Denied - Mich. Comp. Laws Section 750.115

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE [[EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.115 Breaking and entering or entering without breaking; buildings, tents, boats, railroad cars; entering public buildings when expressly denied.
Sec. 115.
[[1) Any person who breaks and enters or enters without breaking, any dwelling, house, tent, hotel, office, store, shop, warehouse, barn, granary, factory or other building, boat, ship, railroad car or structure used or kept for public or private use, or any private apartment therein, or any cottage, clubhouse, boat house, hunting or fishing lodge, garage or the out-buildings belonging thereto, any ice shanty with a value of $100.00 or more, or any other structure, whether occupied or unoccupied, without first obtaining permission to enter from the owner or occupant, agent, or person having immediate control thereof, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
[[2) Subsection [[1) does not apply to entering without breaking, any place which at the time of the entry was open to the public, unless the entry was expressly denied. Subsection [[1) does not apply if the breaking and entering or entering without breaking was committed by a peace officer or an individual under the peace officer's direction in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a peace officer.



1:Abandoned buildings become another matter. Whether fenced in, gated and locked or wide open and the doors are missing, "trespass" is defined as "to go or travel or intrude [[on the property, privacy, or preserves of another) with no right or permission from said owner".

[downtown_racine]

I also found it to be wild that the scrappers would be using forklifts up and down the ramps, I guess you can get an old beater forktruck for a reasonable price.
The thick black smoke looks unrelated to the camper which appeared to already be a skeleton in the video ? What the hell is being burned to create that kind of smoke if it was not in fact the camper ? The other fire videos are trippy too, just random fires burning and smoking the place out.

[black gold man]

"I guess you can get an old beater forktruck for a reasonable price."
Best one ever made.

[mauser]

"trespass" is defined as "to go or travel or intrude [[on the property, privacy, or preserves of another) with no right or permission from said owner".

Okay - its whenever you hit the word "owner" that I spit my beer out laughing....There is no god damned "owner".

By law that property all belongs to Wayne County.

"Property owners with taxes that are 2 years delinquent will be foreclosed and the property can be sold at a public auction. Not paying taxes will now result in higher interest charges and fees."

http://www.co.wayne.mi.us/treasurer_dp_timeline.htm

Public Act 123 [[MCL 211.78)

[Occurrence]

The trespassing laws usually won't hold up as long as there is absolutely no attempt at keeping people out. The Packard doesn't even have as much as a single sign anywhere on the premise. Not to mention there are no doors, boards, or anything at all covering any one of the probably hundreds of open entrances into the structure.

Some airhead graffiti art girl going in there to paint is should be the least of anyone's worries. In fact, the artwork inside is probably the only redeeming quality the place still has left.

[Richard]

This is what it was about but you guys are right it is not worth it so let it burn
the cars could care less where they are built.106 of them were for Michigan and
required no state incentives , just a little support but in asking for it is asking to
much I guess.

The $551 million Request for Proposals [[RFP) to manufacture approximately 130 new bi-level passenger rail cars in America comes from a groundbreaking multi-state effort tojointly purchase standardized rail equipment to be used on Amtrak’s intercity routes inCalifornia, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Missouri, and potentially Iowa. The funding isbeing provided by the Federal Railroad Administration’s High-Speed and IntercityPassenger Rail Program.

[Whitehouse]

[[Instead of opening a seperate topic, I'll post this bit of history here.)
Today in 1956.

Today in Automotive History
On this day in history in 1956, the last Packard rolled off the line in Detroit. Although Packard had been a formidable luxury brand before the Depression, it never recovered when production resumed after World War II. With sales dwindling, Packard merged with Studebaker in the hope of cutting its costs. The new Packard-Studebaker became the fourth largest manufacturer of cars in the nation. Studebaker was struggling as well, however, and eventually dropped all its own big cars as well as the Packard. In 1956, Packard-Studebaker's then-president, James Nance, made the decision to suspend Packard's manufacturing operations in Detroit, though the company would continue to manufacture cars in South Bend, Ind., until 1958. There's still time to see the decaying plant site before the remains are torn down.

Via Jalopnik.