Hotel Charlevoix Owner Petitions for Permission to Demolish

**cramerro** · June-08-12, 01:44 PM

I guess it was only a matter of time... what a shame.

I was looking at some old photos of the GCP area last week, what a great public space that could have been so much more if the buildings around it were not left to crumble by various perps.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...emowatch-2.php

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...eks-demolition

**ismoakrack** · June-08-12, 01:54 PM

Just when we thought demos in the CBD were finished after the fall of the Lafayette...

**Hypestyles** · June-08-12, 02:05 PM

could the building be converted to apartments, lofts?

**dmike76** · June-08-12, 02:10 PM

Man, that building is a wreck. Last time I went to Cliff Bell's I was hoping that they could save it somehow. At what point does a building get beyond repair? I hope something could change and they could restore that beauty but it doesn't look good at this point. One more parking lot for Tiger games. Ugh.

**p69rrh51** · June-08-12, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

Man, that building is a wreck. Last time I went to Cliff Bell's I was hoping that they could save it somehow. At what point does a building get beyond repair? I hope something could change and they could restore that beauty but it doesn't look good at this point. One more parking lot for Tiger games. Ugh.

its just the facade that is in shambles. The building is so over built they are going to have their hands full taking it down. We have a chance to help save one those who can make it should voice their support for keeping the Charlevoix!

**cramerro** · June-08-12, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

Man, that building is a wreck. Last time I went to Cliff Bell's I was hoping that they could save it somehow. At what point does a building get beyond repair? I hope something could change and they could restore that beauty but it doesn't look good at this point. One more parking lot for Tiger games. Ugh.

There's a fine line depending on who you ask... the point of no return is certainly when the owner decides that financially it has no other option than seek demolition. Owners will say its when certain this or that is breaking, but generally without core structural problems, no building is beyond repair [[the whole point is that it is how it is because there have been no repairs). As you can see in the pic, the facade is crap but they literally have done no maintenance on it for 20 years. There is no buckling, leaning, or otherwise serious damage, just the facade is crumbling due to no maintenance and having much of the building open to the elements for years.

Not to say I have the funds to carry the property or fix it up, but I'm not the one who bought it in the first place. The final twist of the screw will come when then get the DEGC or DDA to pay for some/all of the demo costs.

**Wheels** · June-08-12, 02:29 PM

Attachment 13899

A great colorized shot from Shorpy called Chop Suey Canyon.

**antongast** · June-08-12, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by ismoakrack

Just when we thought demos in the CBD were finished after the fall of the Lafayette...

I don't see why anyone would have thought that.

**dmike76** · June-08-12, 02:39 PM

One would think that if the M-1 gets done and the new Wings stadium does end up in Foxtown that this building would be a pretty good location for residential use. It's been sitting there vacant for 20 or so years, why not wait five more? By then someone could actually do something with it. I realize that the facade may not last that long though. HEY! RICH PEOPLE! SOMEBODY COME UP WITH SOME MONEY TO FIX THIS BEAUTIFUL BUILDING!

**jtf1972** · June-08-12, 02:43 PM

A facade can be replaced. Classic architecture can, but will never be. Once it's gone it can never be replaced. Put some scaffolding around it & provide a tax break IF they remodel & convert to apartments... [[Dan Gilbert, HELP!) We don't need more vacant lots. The demo money would be better spent taking down burned out shells of single family homes.

**AGinthe313** · June-08-12, 02:50 PM

What would it cost to demolish a place like this?

**mikeg19** · June-08-12, 04:20 PM

I could'a seen this coming, but this sucks. GCP is/has really become the "place" in Detroit it would seem recently. And that would only be propelled by a new hockey arena in the vicinity, not to mention the Broderick, Whitney, and potential uses of the Statler site. With all of the talk of not enough rental space downtown, you'd think someone might step forward and buy this on the cheap. But then again, I don't know what the asking price is nor the rehab cost. Still, if this happens, it's just one more building taken out of the cityscape.

**Ray1936** · June-08-12, 05:32 PM

Hey, I could shed a tear or two if they raze the place. I'm still crying over the 1961 demolition of old City Hall. But follow the money. If someone puts zillions into bringing the place back, what return would he possibly have in time to come?

Probably nothing. Thus, the place will either stand vacant for another decade or two of else come down.

Always follow the money.

**illwill** · June-08-12, 07:39 PM

This my friends will REALLY tell us just how much demandthere is for Downtown living in Detroit. This is a beautiful, one of a kindstructure in one of the city's best locations. If it's structurally sound, I'veseen buildings in far worse condition be brought back to good use. I hopesomeone steps up to save this gem but I have a strong feeling the Illitch’smight be behind this one.

**casscorridor** · June-08-12, 08:02 PM

Moratorium on all Downtown demolitions now!

No more empty lots!

**Wesley Mouch** · June-08-12, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Moratorium on all Downtown demolitions now!

No more empty lots!

Bring your cash, and you could have bought it. You didn't.

Otherwise, stop infringing on the rights of others.

The owners are doing with it as they see fit. That remains allowable behavior in the US. Its a civil right.

**Richard** · June-08-12, 09:38 PM

So we pick and choose while one man is a scumbag for his
derlict property another is exercising his rights.

There are properties across this country that were preserved for
future generations not because one person had the funds
but because a group of people got together and made the choice.

The more I learn about Detroit the sadder I get sometimes ,so much
to offer yet so little respect for the historical significance intrusted.

I find it hard to blame the property owners in most cases as most other
cities would have facade grants and low interest loans to help preserve but
it is no secret where those funds have gone so I would second a 2 year
demolition moratorium overseen by the historical commission .

This property was listed as one of the 7 most dangerous ,it has amassed
a large amount of fines and the owner may just be at the point of saying
the heck with it all and unless he is getting a serious chunk of change for
a parking lot the aspect of demolishing is not really feasable.

The city does not have the budject to preserve and protect or help with
mothballing at this time and the owner clearly does not have the funds
so is it really wise to jump on the demolish it all bandwagon when who
knows what the next couple of years will bring? Is it worth loseing an asset over?

Sorry ,posted from mobile which does not seem to be working so well.

**Rocko** · June-09-12, 08:51 PM

As usual, no plan, "let's just get rid of it." Ugh.

I'd like to point out that the Hotel Charlevoix not only bookends one prominent corner of Grand Circus Park, but also serves as a link between the park and the short stretch of Park Avenue between Adams and I-75. Some cool things are along that stretch of Park - Cliff Bells, the Park Bar, the renovated Iodent Building lofts, the Centaur, and more. Together with the Kales Bldg. apartments on the corner, this is actually and could become more of an active residential and nightlife district. Any such growth would be significantly diminished if the Charlevoix were demolished.........

Shollin · June-09-12, 08:57 PM

Vacant buildings that endanger the safety of the people on the street is better than an empty lot.

**Novine** · June-09-12, 09:41 PM

Vacant lots are a threat to the safety of people on the street.

Occurrence · June-10-12, 12:46 AM

I'm glad they tore down the Madison-lennox. That parking lot is amazing and unique.

**emu steve** · June-10-12, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Bring your cash, and you could have bought it. You didn't.

Otherwise, stop infringing on the rights of others.

The owners are doing with it as they see fit. That remains allowable behavior in the US. Its a civil right.

Good point. There are property rights.

Two or three options:

1). Someone else privately buys and rehabilitate the building

OR

2). The current owner complies with the city's requests and makes it safe.

Or

3). the owner demolishes the building.

Whatever the owner does need to make financial sense to him and be consistent with city laws and regulations.

#1 would be the preferred option but is it realistic????

**mikeg19** · June-10-12, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

I'm glad they tore down the Madison-lennox. That parking lot is amazing and unique.

Thank you for that. I got a good laugh.

Anyone know what the asking price is on the building? Is it even for sale?

**swingline** · June-11-12, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Bring your cash, and you could have bought it. You didn't.

Otherwise, stop infringing on the rights of others.

The owners are doing with it as they see fit. That remains allowable behavior in the US. Its a civil right.

Wesley, you’re wrong for at least two reasons. First, the owner’s precious “civil right” to do anything with his property - which you seem pretty anxious to protect - is actually significantly limited by state and local law. The Hotel Charlevoix is part of a historic district in which owners cannot alter the exterior of their properties without the permission of theDetroit Historic District Commission. A demolition would of course alter a property. Approval for a demolition is possible, but only under very limited circumstances after satisfying specific criteria and milestones. The Hotel Charlevoix’s owner, one of Detroit’s most notorious property speculators/slumlords, has not come close to satisfying the statutory requirements for obtaining permission for a demolition. If he can’t comply with the law, he can’t demolish. There’s no infringement of anyright of the owner in that circumstance.

Second, with regard to bringing the cash, you are apparently suggesting that folks who oppose a demolition should buy the building. Well, the current owner, who has speculatively held the building for 30 years, has indeed indicated in the past that he would sell to anyone willing to pay a fairyland price of $100 sq.ft. or so which would give him a lottery jackpot in the millions. Of course, that price isn’t close to feasible for a building that has been vacant for decades and has no working systems. So actually, the building hasn’treally been for sale. Laughably, a few years ago the owner marketed the building for lease at $20 sq. ft. with the tenant assuming all build out costs. This offer was at a time when you could get a gross lease at One Detroit Center [[most expensive building in Detroit) for about $22.50 sq. ft. Just another indication that the owner’s only interest is in speculating. Well speculating might be all fine and legal, but even if the owner has no interest in the “law” of fair market value, he still has to comply with the laws regarding demolition in a historic district.

**Novine** · June-11-12, 11:28 AM

Too bad that the city doesn't believe in enforcing property maintenance standards. Buildings should never be allowed to get to this point. If the city actually enforced some standards and followed through on those who don't keep up their buildings, there might be some financial incentive for the property owners to keep up or sell their properties. Parking lots are a disaster for an urban area and a sign of Detroit's decline.