Restaurant & Garage Expansion at Greektown Casino

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-12, 12:57 PM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...parking-garage

I like this a lot. Greektown has long not had a top tier restaurant. Also, this construction shows the newish owners of the casino are willing to put some money into. Now if they could just get rid of the garish purple/gold scheme in the hotel...

**Detroitnerd** · June-01-12, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...parking-garage

I like this a lot. Greektown has long not had a top tier restaurant. Also, this construction shows the newish owners of the casino are willing to put some money into. Now if they could just get rid of the garish purple/gold scheme in the hotel...

Too bad about Laikon, though...

**Gistok** · June-01-12, 01:13 PM

Mikey... I don't think that most on this forum are as excited as you are about this...

Greektown proper is struggling to keep its' remaining restaurants, let alone be happy about a new top tier restaurant [[in the casino) that most of us will not be going to.

The new parking structure will mean a second skyway crossing over the historic street. And with a moving sidewalk... it will have to be rather wide and "in your face" structure when walking along what's left of the venerable old block of buildings.

One thing that Greektown Casino is good at is building skybridges that drop you off deep inside the casino, and a considerable maze like distance from the exit onto Monroe St. to visit any of the other restaurants or shops.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-12, 02:59 PM

Agreed, Gistok, about the Skywalk. I wish that people walked all over downtown. But, that wish not being fulfilled doesn't change a few positive things. First, the restaurant and garage will employ people. Second, this may help Greektown Casino, which has had existential financial issues, bring in more business. It employes a lot of people, and pays a lot of taxes. Third, depending on how it's done, the restaurant might attract some non-gambling patrons [[I know that the high end restaurants at the other 2 casinos do), creating a new destination in neighborhood. Fourth, the parking structure, while serving a majority of casino patrons, will certainly be a decent parking option for people at a game or the theatre. They will have to walk along Beaubien or Broadway or wherever, which can be rather beneficial to those businesses along them.

This development isn't perfect, or the one I would design when I'm in charge in the world. But it's still a net positive.

The element that I think Greektown is *really* missing is non-gambling entertainment. A movie theatre, a great live music venue, a billiards hall, etc would really help the neighborhood pop. And that would be good for the restaurants and bars, casino, and hotels.

**Detroitnerd** · June-01-12, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

The element that I think Greektown is *really* missing is non-gambling entertainment. A movie theatre, a great live music venue, a billiards hall, etc would really help the neighborhood pop. And that would be good for the restaurants and bars, casino, and hotels.

The gambling enterprise is systematically rooting out the other, organic stuff in Greektown. All that other cool stuff is not going to happen as long as Greektown Casino has its way with what's left of Greektown...

**mikeg19** · June-01-12, 04:28 PM

There used to be this thing before the casino called "Greektown". It had live music, street vendors, hell, it even had Greek restaurants!

**DetroitPlanner** · June-01-12, 05:26 PM

Where the heck would they build this thing? It says it is under construction now. Has anyone seen anything like that in an area that could be connected by a skywalk?

In most cases, skywalks suck the life off of a street.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-12, 05:27 PM

I think there is no denying that Greektown is less and less Greek. But I'm not sure the casino is killing it. Was Greektown beating back hordes of visitors before the casino came along? If so, why did Trapper's Alley fail? Why was there only 1, relatively small hotel? I think more likely than not, what the casino did was drive up property values & rents, which caused businesses that had lingered for years, with their finances predicated on downtown's real estate depression. That is, rent was miniscule versus what they would pay in a normal downtown. The casino caused the values to go up, and some businesses fell by the wayside. I'm not happy that they closed, but it happens to some extent every time a large enterprise comes to a neighborhood. In Brooklyn, there has been much drama about mom & pop shops being pushed out by high rent with the rise of the Barclay's Center [[new arena for the Nets). It's unavoidable. The other 2 casinos avoided this to an extent by opening in an area void of street level businesses. Greektown was damned if they did, damned if they didn't. We don't want "an island" like MGM or Motor City, but we want no consequences whatsoever for the neighborhood when they open. You can't have the good things if you don't have the bad things. If we want things [[casinos, transit systems, shopping centers, arenas, hotels, etc), they will have an impact on the neighborhood. One of those impacts is that they will drive up some costs including rent for existing businesses [[or make selling out very tempting to those who own). Hopefully, some will remain, and we will like the new things that arrive. All neighborhoods are either in constant flux [[which is healthy) or they are dying. I say, bring on the flux.

**Detroitnerd** · June-01-12, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I think there is no denying that Greektown is less and less Greek. But I'm not sure the casino is killing it. Was Greektown beating back hordes of visitors before the casino came along? If so, why did Trapper's Alley fail? Why was there only 1, relatively small hotel? I think more likely than not, what the casino did was drive up property values & rents, which caused businesses that had lingered for years, with their finances predicated on downtown's real estate depression.

No, it's that the major people who own the property in Greektown bought into the casino, and are happy to shut down a place like Laikon -- I know the operator, he was clearing money every month even after rent and wanted to keep running the business -- so they can build a new tubeway to the valet garage. Or the other casino stakeholder who hastily bulldozed a restaurant he owned a few years ago rather than find another operator. And the casino has been, at best, capricious about who gets to use casino comps and who doesn't. If I remember right, they even had agreed not to open a restaurant in the casino, which is by the wayside now.

See, you're kinda guessing what's going on. A lot of us know what's going on. Which do you think is more accurate? Your guesses or our knowledge?

**Gistok** · June-01-12, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Where the heck would they build this thing? It says it is under construction now. Has anyone seen anything like that in an area that could be connected by a skywalk?

In most cases, skywalks suck the life off of a street.

DP, isn't there a parking lot between the Greektown business along Monroe and the 1300 Beaubien Police HQ locate behind the north Greektown alley? I thought it was going up there... since the destroyed 2nd floor of that former restaurant traverses between that site and the Casino proper.

**Gistok** · June-01-12, 05:44 PM

Mikey... I don't mind a high end restaurant in the Greektown Casino. But just recently MGM Grands high end restaurant WOLFGANG PUCK's announced they were moving out of the casino... just don't know if that means they're moving elsewhere downtown.

**Detroitnerd** · June-01-12, 05:53 PM

Yes, the Garage is going up on the old sheriff's parking lot site across the alley north of Monroe. That's why Laikon was razed, to make way for the tube.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-12, 06:05 PM

I'm surprised if Laikon was profitable that it hasn't made plans to move nearby. There are open, affordable spaces all over downtown [[that I do know because I've been in them with real estate agents). My first inclination would not be to pack it in. Are they trying to do that, insiders?

**Gistok** · June-01-12, 06:09 PM

Mikey, interestingly enough the first floor of that building survives, but we don't know what its' intended use will be. Your comments about lots of space downtown are valid... except for the fact that the high density of restaurants in the Greektown immediate area is what kept that as the only nightlife downtown for decades. Unfortunately most of the time, the street is not as crowded as it used to be...

**Detroitnerd** · June-01-12, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I'm surprised if Laikon was profitable that it hasn't made plans to move nearby. There are open, affordable spaces all over downtown [[that I do know because I've been in them with real estate agents). My first inclination would not be to pack it in. Are they trying to do that, insiders?

He bought the business from Gus and ran it for a few years. And the way it was taken away from him -- I won't go into it -- but it was pretty shady. He came up in that neighborhood and wanted to run a Greektown restaurant, and it got pulled out from under him. It's not like he had a Burger King and lost a spot so he'd go down the street and open another Burger King. See, if you're in a historic building that has been there since 1921, amid a dense street filled with similar businesses, and your building is taken away from you ... and there's no other similarly dense street in downtown ... you might just be fucked.

He's a cool guy who chooses his battles. He opened a modest liquor store on Monroe instead. And so his commitment to Greektown continues.

As for the guys who came up in that neighborhood and are profiting off picking it apart for casino profits ... what's their excuse?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-12, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

As for the guys who came up in that neighborhood and are profiting off picking it apart for casino profits ... what's their excuse?

If you don't break the law, there is no need to excuse profitting. Financial motives should not be your only motives, but they are valid. I worked for a restaurant owner in NY who was offered mucho money to turn one of his places into a high-end chain, he turned it down. But the same guy also licenses the name/logo to a mail order company to sell overpriced chocolates. Like the guy who owned Laikon, he chooses his battles. I wouldn't judge too harshly someone who "sells out." One man's sell out is another man's kid's tuition.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-01-12, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Yes, the Garage is going up on the old sheriff's parking lot site across the alley north of Monroe. That's why Laikon was razed, to make way for the tube.

Ugh.. I see no reason whatsover for another tube. You could argue that the other one was needed because the hotel and casino needed a connection. They are going to drive valet cars that far?? 850 spaces can fit on that lot? I don't see it. Seems like a very stupid move. If its valet parking, who is going to use the tube?

**mikeg19** · June-02-12, 01:43 PM

I'll take the structure with the restaurant over a surface lot, although I'm with most of the posters on here and disagree with the tube. As for Greektown, it's a shell of its former self. One by one the Greek restaurants and businesses are being taken over. But I guess I can't be too bitter, seeing as there is still development and the businesses aren't just being shuttered. I have mixed feelings on the subject because in retrospect, I think the proposed riverfront gambling district would have been better for the city. But hindsight is always 20/20 right?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-02-12, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I I have mixed feelings on the subject because in retrospect, I think the proposed riverfront gambling district would have been better for the city. But hindsight is always 20/20 right?

I've thought alot about this, too, both at the time and now. I have come to the conclusion that it would not have been a good idea. I think it would have been more of an island than either MGM or MotorCity is now, and I think it might have ruined the riverfront's momentum. And the sites of the current MGM and MotorCity would be vacant entirely. And I suspect Greektown might be more Greek, but a heckuva lot fewer people would visit it. I was not a huge supporter of casinos, but they're here and we might as well accept them. My biggest regret about the casinos is that the new source of revenue for the city has allowed the city to delay by years the financial realities it now finds itself in. We would have had to be on a fix-it path a decade ago. But, like everything else, we should analyze history, but plan for the future. How I would have built casinos is now irrelevant. We have what we have. Now, what will we have tomorrow?