K2 'Crackdown' in West Bloomfield - Frenzy or Reality?

**Lowell** · May-31-12, 09:23 AM

Until a week ago I only knew of K2 as the second highest mountain in the world. Now is purported to be a different kind of high. And 'purported' is the key word.

Anyone else's eyebrows raised over the current media spasm over K2? K2 is variously described as something between 'synthetic marijuana' and chemically treated herbs. It is packaged and legally sold, not sure where, and when smoked allegedly produces a high.

I have heard a frantic West Bloomfield mom decrying it and a teenaged girl claiming she was addicted to it. It is has been associated with the sensational Cipriano baseball bat murder and the Granny-shoots-grandson cases. Legislators and city councils are falling all over themselves to make it illegal.

But how can they when no one seems to know what it is? I have heard zero science, zero evidence and zero definition of exactly what it is. All I hear is a cacophony of sensationalized muddled allegations. Would someone please enlighten me.

**rex** · May-31-12, 09:34 AM

and the kid that died on a beach. It definitely alters you but in a mostly unpleasant way. People who are on probation and or subject to drug testing smoke this stuff. Apparently its a lot more destructive than the real thing. Laws need to change.

**Scottathew** · May-31-12, 10:12 AM

Seems like the real stuff is safer. Decriminalize marijuana and make the fake stuff illegal.

**j to the jeremy** · May-31-12, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Until a week ago I only knew of K2 as the second highest mountain in the world. Now is purported to be a different kind of high. And 'purported' is the key word.

Anyone else's eyebrows raised over the current media spasm over K2? K2 is variously described as something between 'synthetic marijuana' and chemically treated herbs. It is packaged and legally sold, not sure where, and when smoked allegedly produces a high.

I have heard a frantic West Bloomfield mom decrying it and a teenaged girl claiming she was addicted to it. It is has been associated with the sensational Cipriano baseball bat murder and the Granny-shoots-grandson cases. Legislators and city councils are falling all over themselves to make it illegal.

But how can they when no one seems to know what it is? I have heard zero science, zero evidence and zero definition of exactly what it is. All I hear is a cacophony of sensationalized muddled allegations. Would someone please enlighten me.

It's been around for several years. Basically it's a form of mock THC made from legal chemicals. However, it is completely untested and potentially more dangerous than THC. There are similar legal "imitation" drugs which mimic LSD, cocaine and Molly but they are even more dangerous and largely sold in Asia and Europe.

K2 is NOT weed. It has been associated with seizures and deaths in many cities. Weed never has been. The people making K2 don't care if they are killing people, they only want a profit. There's a little media hysteria but I can attest that lots of kids do smoke this stuff. It's half the price of real weed which helps keep interest high. I'm in my 20s and most of the people I've heard of who tried this stuff are under 20.

Basically, it should be illegal, and so should 'bath salts' which were a factor in the Zombie face eating case in Miami right now. [[Which conveniently the media initially blamed on LSD... how's that for disinformation)

**rb336** · May-31-12, 10:23 AM

This is exactly WHY marijuana should be legalized. If pot was legal, no one would buy this crap

**hybridy** · May-31-12, 11:12 AM

don't legalize weed, decriminalize and tax weed

they suspect the nude face eater in miami was on bath salts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenedioxypyrovalerone

**compn** · May-31-12, 12:41 PM

k2 is popular amongst people who either cant use marijuana [[mostly people on probation or people who have urinalysis for employment) or cant buy weed easily [[dumb white teenagers). i've picked up empty k2 wrappers in the park , so i know that people are using it.

maybe its just the next FUD [[fear, uncertainty and doubt) scare. like africanized killer bees or EL NINO or something.

i too would like some evidence that k2/spice killed someone.

theres the poison control association's reports about an increase in calls. but is that due to parents concerns about finding it , or is it due to actual emergencies?

**j to the jeremy** · May-31-12, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by compn

k2 is popular amongst people who either cant use marijuana [[mostly people on probation or people who have urinalysis for employment) or cant buy weed easily [[dumb white teenagers). i've picked up empty k2 wrappers in the park , so i know that people are using it.

maybe its just the next FUD [[fear, uncertainty and doubt) scare. like africanized killer bees or EL NINO or something.

i too would like some evidence that k2/spice killed someone.

theres the poison control association's reports about an increase in calls. but is that due to parents concerns about finding it , or is it due to actual emergencies?

Here are some examples:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1063906.html

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-spice...,1021879.story

http://www.wdef.com/news/story/Famil...-imvcMxjA.cspx

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20120529/NEWS02/120529001/-Spice-suspected-death-Bloomfield-Township-teen

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/officials_sa...hree_upstate_de.html

"Normal marijuana users experience feelings of euphoria, increased appetite and some paranoia, said Dr. Christine Stork, the center’s clinical director. Synthetic marijuana, on the other hand, is 20 times as potent, she said. People smoking or ingesting synthetic marijuana experienced increased agitation, yelling or screaming, she said.
They can also experience symptoms such as muscle cell break down, kidney failure, seizures that appear long after use, tremors, anxiety, chest pain, convulsions, hallucinations, and heart palpitations, according to literature from the Poison Control Center"

And if you don't die, you can always just settle for kidney failure...
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23...ns-of-dangers/

**compn** · May-31-12, 03:01 PM

"The boy smoked the fake marijuana out of a plastic PEZ candy dispenser. The chemicals in the drugs caused extensive damage to his lungs."

the burning plastic pez dispenser killed this kid. i'm not sure why they blamed the "drugs".

"28-year-old Lilly Helsley of Middletown died after smoking the drug designed to mimic the effects of marijuana."
“The doctor’s very words were, it poisoned her heart,” Ramsey said.

so its a heart poison? heart attack? i dont know. this isnt much accurate.

The 16-year old Fayette County honor student drowned in the family’s Peachtree City hot tub after smoking “Spice,”

the bloomfield hills case is still 'suspected' until they release the toxology report. the kidney failure is from someone who had 'a drug addiction' before turning to spice. who knows if spice was specifically the thing that killed his kidneys or maybe he just had hepatitis from needle sharing.

theres a bunch of drowning and self-inflicted gunshots and car accident deaths with people who were reportedly on spice/k2. i want to see actual deaths from an overdose. theres a lot of articles that say 'k2 has caused thousands of deaths all over the country' so i expect it shouldnt be that hard to find ONE.

dont take this to mean i am defending k2. i think its not as safe as marijuana. i personally know two people who have used it and lived. i think its a byproduct of the war on drugs and it has not had the 10,000 years of human testing that marijuana has.

**compn** · May-31-12, 03:06 PM

http://www.telegram.com/article/2012...S01&source=rss
the parents of this 19 year old man are still waiting for answers if the synthetic marijuana killed him.

Occurrence · June-01-12, 11:01 AM

If lawmakers and city council members want to ban this stuff because it's "dangerous," why aren't they also lobbying to ban even deadlier substances like alcohol? These are the same idiots who want to keep marijuana illegal, which is much safer than all this garbage.

**Downtown Lady** · June-01-12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by compn

"The boy smoked the fake marijuana out of a plastic PEZ candy dispenser. The chemicals in the drugs caused extensive damage to his lungs."

the burning plastic pez dispenser killed this kid. i'm not sure why they blamed the "drugs".

"28-year-old Lilly Helsley of Middletown died after smoking the drug designed to mimic the effects of marijuana."
“The doctor’s very words were, it poisoned her heart,” Ramsey said.

so its a heart poison? heart attack? i dont know. this isnt much accurate.

The 16-year old Fayette County honor student drowned in the family’s Peachtree City hot tub after smoking “Spice,”

the bloomfield hills case is still 'suspected' until they release the toxology report. the kidney failure is from someone who had 'a drug addiction' before turning to spice. who knows if spice was specifically the thing that killed his kidneys or maybe he just had hepatitis from needle sharing.

theres a bunch of drowning and self-inflicted gunshots and car accident deaths with people who were reportedly on spice/k2. i want to see actual deaths from an overdose. theres a lot of articles that say 'k2 has caused thousands of deaths all over the country' so i expect it shouldnt be that hard to find ONE.

dont take this to mean i am defending k2. i think its not as safe as marijuana. i personally know two people who have used it and lived. i think its a byproduct of the war on drugs and it has not had the 10,000 years of human testing that marijuana has.

I think it's pretty easy to connect the dots. Even if "K2 Overdose" isn't what the coroner lists on the death certificate, it's pretty clear that this stuff causes your body and your brain to do some crazy things. I think your two friends should consider themselves lucky and not keep tempting fate.

**compn** · June-01-12, 12:44 PM

to answer the OP, wikipedia has more information about the chemicals involved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis

http://www.independentmail.com/news/...found-fake-ma/

"On the basis of an autopsy and the toxicology test results, Shore is ruling Jack's death accidental -- caused by "acute drug toxicity with excited delirium that led to multiple organ failure""

i've heard of the 'excited delirium' cause of death before. its what coroners call it when someone is electrocuted to death by taser. its bullshit a coroner says so that police arent liable for the murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_delirium

or maybe jwh-018 did kill him. using non-recognized medical conditions to explain it away is not good science.

**downtownguy** · June-01-12, 01:02 PM

The New York Times did a good story on synthetic marijuana a couple of years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/11/us/11k2.html

**Lowell** · June-01-12, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

Normal marijuana users experience feelings of euphoria, increased appetite and some paranoia, said Dr. Christine Stork, the center’s clinical director. Synthetic marijuana, on the other hand, is 20 times as potent, she said. People smoking or ingesting synthetic marijuana experienced increased agitation, yelling or screaming, she said.

It's statements like this that drive me nuts. '20x as potent'? According to what scientific blind study evidence?

'..increased agitation, yelling or screaming' Are they talking about the media hype, themselves or me be annoyed by the lack of science around this.

Please don't get me wrong. Ingesting unknown chemicals is like huffing glue or other idiocies. It's bad for one's health and flat out stupid. My rantings center around the lack of clarity being flung about by media outlets.

"This chemical was found in the body of the perpetrator in this amount. This chemical has been shown by these scientific studies to cause this and that." This is done with alcohol. That's all I am asking for.

**compn** · June-01-12, 04:47 PM

one article i read summed it up pretty nicely, people have money and want to get high, you can ban this, but people will still get high somehow.

**Jimaz** · June-02-12, 03:41 PM

This morning there was a big protest on Van Dyke north of Utica against selling K2. There were about 200 people, mostly kids. Two police cruisers were blocking one lane of Van Dyke. They must have been protesting the headshop there, possibly a nearby gas station too.

Occurrence · June-02-12, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

This morning there was a big protest on Van Dyke north of Utica against selling K2. There were about 200 people, mostly kids. Two police cruisers were blocking one lane of Van Dyke. They must have been protesting the headshop there, possible a nearby gas station too.

What a bunch of losers. If they don't like K2, than they shouldn't smoke it. If they want to protest something, go stand in front of a bar or liquor store. Nobody seems to mind that alcohol and alcohol related incidents kill more people than all other illegal drugs combined.

**compn** · June-18-12, 10:00 PM

http://www.co.wayne.mi.us/hhs_ph_contact.htm
K2 Hotline Number
[[734) 727-7163

wayne county banned it via robert ficano executive order on june 5th.
http://www.co.wayne.mi.us/5798.htm

according to the dea:
http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/abuse/index.htm
http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/abus...s/K2_Spice.pdf

Overdose effects
There have been no reported deaths by overdose.

that finally answers my question.

**Hermod** · June-19-12, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

don't legalize weed, decriminalize and tax weed

Legalize weed but make it a government monopoly sold legally only in government stores. Figure out how much we need to run the government and set the price accordingly. We can then eliminate all other taxes and the IRS can focus on chasing down untaxed weed using IRS "rules of evidence".

**compn** · June-19-12, 09:58 PM

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...etic-marijuana

snyder bans k2 for all of michigan. the drug war rolls on.

**jolla** · June-20-12, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

Basically, it should be illegal, and so should 'bath salts' which were a factor in the Zombie face eating case in Miami right now. [[Which conveniently the media initially blamed on LSD... how's that for disinformation)

Actually, toxicology results are not back yet for the Miami zombie, so bath salts being a factor may be disinformation, too.