Detroit Could Pull the Plug on Streetlights

**Zacha341** · May-24-12, 09:44 PM

I had a feeling this was coming... recall lights off in Highland Park?

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ts-20120524-km

**Wesley Mouch** · May-24-12, 10:06 PM

It appears that excessive spending on city adminsitration and labor creates an unsafe environment.

**Crumbled_pavement** · May-24-12, 10:43 PM

The incompetence in this city is appalling. And it just gets worse by the year, I mean month, I mean day. Literally, it's going backwards as a solution to problems instead of forwards. So uhhh, in this day and age we can have lights burning all day long but they go out during the night? Business as usual, or should I say as usual on steriods.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-24-12, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

The incompetence in this city is appalling. And it just gets worse by the year, I mean month, I mean day. Literally, it's going backwards as a solution to problems instead of forwards. So uhhh, in this day and age we can have lights burning all day long but they go out during the night? Business as usual, or should I say as usual on steriods.

But its such a good 'jobs machine'.

**313WX** · May-24-12, 11:39 PM

Hey, what do you do to reduce crime in the consecutively most dangerous city in America for 4 decades?

Cut the police department more and cut off more streetlights!!!

**Crumbled_pavement** · May-24-12, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Hey, what do you do to reduce crime in the consecutively most dangerous city in America for 4 decades?

Cut the police department more and cut off more streetlights!!!

Genius! Now we can eliminate pyromaniacs by getting rid of the fire department. I think I see the brilliance in this line of thinking after all.

**KJ5** · May-25-12, 02:08 AM

Well, this is nothing new. The city leaves streetlights off to save money all the time.

**Dexlin** · May-25-12, 07:06 AM

Hey, these are the consequences of privatization. This is what you get when you operate city services to make a profit. The funny thing is that they say that 40% of the lights don't work at any given time, anyway, and the city certainly doesn't have the money to fix them, so it sounds like taking them down is simply formalizing what's already been reality in the city for years, now. The other funny thing is that if they continued business as usual, people would be bitching about why the department is not cutting costs.

I laugh when I hear all the powers-that-be talking about "right-sizing". It's already happened, difference is that no one planned for its decades ago and it happened organically and haphazardly. This train already left the station and both the private and public sectors in this metropolitan area missed it by years.

The only practical different and change to most Detroiters is that now they don't have to guess or pretend when the lights will be back on or hope that they will, because they'll finally be out of sight.

Who is surprised by this? They need their heads checked. DDOT's next; it's already happening. You want to see the city ran like a business? Welcome to New Detroit, where profits come first and providing a service is a by-product.

The last resident who will have left Detroit won't have to turn out the light...the company that owns them will have already scrapped said light.

**corktownyuppie** · May-25-12, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Hey, these are the consequences of privatization. This is what you get when you operate city services to make a profit. The funny thing is that they say that 40% of the lights don't work at any given time, anyway, and the city certainly doesn't have the money to fix them, so it sounds like taking them down is simply formalizing what's already been reality in the city for years, now. The other funny thing is that if they continued business as usual, people would be bitching about why the department is not cutting costs.

Recognizing that this will be painful for the neighborhoods that get cut, I see this is as a net positive. The city is finally doing what needed to start 30 years ago...choose neighborhoods that are viable and throw all their resources at saving those areas. Triage.

50 wounded soldiers on the battlefield. I can try to save them all and watch them all die. Or I can pick the 10-15 that are savable and throw everything we can at saving them.

Sad thing is that had we started the process 30 years ago, we probably would've been able to save more soldiers.

**Goose** · May-25-12, 07:24 AM

run for profit? you have a very confused understanding of what's going on in Detroit if you equate the streetlight situation to privitization and profit

if anything, the city is run for corruption, greed, and often just plain ineptness...

**laphoque** · May-25-12, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

It appears that excessive spending on city adminsitration and labor creates an unsafe environment.

It appears that population loss throughout the metro area will lead to continued stagnation until we manage to reorganize the municipalities and their tax structures so that our infrastructure and mismanaged governments can be efficiently and effectively supported.

If we want to live in a nice city, we'll have to pay. I'm rather convinced that the politicians who want to protect their fiefdoms will do everything they can to stop the kind of broad-based tax structure this metro needs.

**iheartthed** · May-25-12, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by KJ5

Well, this is nothing new. The city leaves streetlights off to save money all the time.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Streetlights are regularly off for extended periods of time in even the most populated areas.

That said, whoever is in charge of public relations now for the city is an idiot. Over the past several years they have let a continuous stream of post-civilization apocalyptic type headlines slip into the media that does nothing to help the city's situation.

**313WX** · May-25-12, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Streetlights are regularly off for extended periods of time in even the most populated areas.

That said, whoever is in charge of public relations now for the city is an idiot. Over the past several years they have let a continuous stream of post-civilization apocalyptic type headlines slip into the media that does nothing to help the city's situation.

Detroit has never been the one to smile or put up a front for the camera [[nor Detroiters).

Just look at the "It's what we do" campaign from Chrysler.

**iheartthed** · May-25-12, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Detroit has never been the one to smile or put up a front for the camera [[nor Detroiters).

Just look at the "It's what we do" campaign from Chrysler.

Then maybe Detroit should learn how to sell itself. It could come in handy when trying to convince people to move to the region.

**313WX** · May-25-12, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Then maybe Detroit should learn how to sell itself. It could come in handy when trying to convince people to move to the region.

Detroit for a while has been a "take me as I am or don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!" type of town.

I don't see that changing anytime soon.

**corktownyuppie** · May-25-12, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Detroit for a while has been a "take me as I am or don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!" type of town.

I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Pride and Ego can only be more important than Collaboration and Solution Planning for so long. It's already changing. At some point you can't count on pride to make sure your checks clear.

**illwill** · May-25-12, 09:42 AM

One of the above posters had a great point when they said Detroit should've been preparing for a decline in population 30 years ago. But the only thing I would add to that is I don't think anyone expected Detroit to EVER get to where it currently is.

With that being said, the cold reality of what must be done today is for Detroit to prepare the city for a population of around 600k because in order to move forward and stop the bleeding, Detroit will have to cut loose areas of the city that are draining the city in service dollars. In order for the city to begin profiting, the city will have to cut off the dead weight [[so to speak). I'm not belittling the poor, the elderly and the troubled but the city is forced to make a cold harsh decision.

And still, there is no guarantee that will solve their problems.

**313WX** · May-25-12, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Pride and Ego can only be more important than Collaboration and Solution Planning for so long. It's already changing. At some point you can't count on pride to make sure your checks clear.

Besides that, there will always be that group of hardcore citizens that will stick with Detroit no matter what.

It is what it is...

**illwill** · May-25-12, 09:48 AM

The Chyrsler ad was done by a group based in Portland, Or.

**313WX** · May-25-12, 09:57 AM

600K is very optimistic. I think more around the ballpark of 200K is Detroit's bottom.

I'll be surprised if we still have 600K people after this summer in the city.

You have to consider the number one reason people have fled the city is the lack of services [[they'll be less about crime if the police actually responds to it), rlativly to th tax thy'r payinh. Cutting the services MORe and putting more of a tax burden on them [[the additional fees proposed) won't stop the bleeding.

This is especially considring that no other city the size of Detroit has had to cut its way to prosperity, to the extent Detroit does. I see this all as a "We have nothing else to lose." social/financial experiment. It has a high bust potential too, because one must handle Detroit's illness delicatly. If you remove or cut the wrong organ, or if you have the wrong type of doctor[[s) overseeing the surgry, you've killed your patient.

But one thing I do completely agree with everyone else on, all the parties involved [[state of Michigan, suburbs, city leaders, citizens, federal government, etc.) did wait entirely too long to address the illness plaguing Detroit. This type of procrastination would have never happened in any other country, and possibly not any other state or city.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-25-12, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by illwill

One of the above posters had a great point when they said Detroit should've been preparing for a decline in population 30 years ago. But the only thing I would add to that is I don't think anyone expected Detroit to EVER get to where it currently is.

With that being said, the cold reality of what must be done today is for Detroit to prepare the city for a population of around 600k because in order to move forward and stop the bleeding, Detroit will have to cut loose areas of the city that are draining the city in service dollars. In order for the city to begin profiting, the city will have to cut off the dead weight [[so to speak). I'm not belittling the poor, the elderly and the troubled but the city is forced to make a cold harsh decision.

And still, there is no guarantee that will solve their problems.

It was obvious that the city was headed for depopulation -- but no city leader ever got promoted for saying that. So they plowed money into 'rebirth' programs when they should have just made the existing infrastructure more efficient.

**iheartthed** · May-25-12, 10:27 AM

I think Detroit's population losses have slowed down a lot from what is was during the 2000-2010 decade. The economics involved in moving away from the city have changed dramatically in the past 5 years. I think Detroit's probably now hovering around the 700K mark, maybe a bit under, and it probably won't move too much in either direction unless something drastic happens.

**SWMAP** · May-25-12, 10:29 AM

Detroit's elderly will die. Hardly anyone moving in. There can be no doubt population will continue to fall.

**313WX** · May-25-12, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Detroit's elderly will die. Hardly anyone moving in. There can be no doubt population will continue to fall.

Not to mention, there's now a plethora of available rental properties in the inner ring suburbs [[similar to Detroit's outer-ring neighbrhoods in th 80s and 90s). Now Detroit's poor population has the opportunity to flee as well.

The only ones I don't see fleeing are those who are stuck, who either don't want to sell their homes at a loss or default on their mortgages, or that hardcore group of Detroiters.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-25-12, 10:38 AM

From the ashes...

The best hope for Detroit is quality. Don't try to be what you were, just be the best you can be in all ways. And stop trying to be fancy and all big-cityish. Keep it simple. Avoid the complex -- which will be hard for an entrenched bureaucracy -- but they must do it. Every job in City Hall needs to be rethought with flexibility in mind.