Voter ID Laws... Partisan Politics?

[Zacha341]

Uh, at the risk of seeming simplistic [[and I know this issue has levels of complexity and hyperbole), if you don't have ID do you not have bigger problems outside of the ability to have your identity verified at time of voting?

Voter ID Laws: Silencing the American People

From article:
Despite the propaganda being advanced by the government, the purpose of voter ID laws is not to eliminate voter fraud and protect the integrity of elections. Rather, their aim is to silence and suppress as many American voters as possible and increase the already widening chasm between the electorate and our government representatives.

In fact, voter ID laws are the icing on the cake when it comes to public officials shutting Americans out of the decision-making process, silencing dissent, and making sure that those in power stay in power and have the last word on government policy. In other words, voter ID laws are the final step in securing the American corporate oligarchy, the unchallenged rule by the privileged and few.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w...b_1514422.html

[jerrytimes]

Funny, I've always had to produce ID to vote in Warren and Roseville. I don't see why this is an issue.

[rb336]

the whole "voter fraud" thing is a myth

[oladub]

I live in a rural community. When we walk in the door of our town hall to vote, the election workers there are already opening the voter roster to the right page so we can sign it because they know everyone. I have seen someone come in and say they just moved into the ---- house and they are allowed to vote without paperwork because the election workers probably knew the place was for rent or had hears someone had moved in. The only impropriety I ever came across was once I came a cross an address on my road that didn't exist and would have been in a hay field. I assumed it was one of the seasonal farm workers at that organic farm so I didn't say anything just figuring that someone needed a place to vote in a presidential election.

In places where everyone does not know each other, it would make more sense to formalize the process. Our kids had to have birth certificates to register in kindergarten. One needs ID for all sorts of less important things than voting particularly when dealing with government agencies.

[ghettopalmetto]

Funny, I've always had to produce ID to vote in Warren and Roseville. I don't see why this is an issue.

In the past, however, I have been able to produce a drivers license, passport, or voter registration card as proof of identity. This new rash of state laws, from what I've seen, requires one to present *only* a DMV-issued drivers license [[or DMV-issued identification card).

A voter registration card, by the way, is issued for free by the Board of Elections.

Historically, laws have been passed in this nation to expand rights, to allow greater access to the polls, and to protect those rights. This [[along with the so-called Defense of Marriage laws) are blatant maneuvers to restrict or reduce exercise of rights, which we haven't seen since the Jim Crow days.

[firstandten]

This is mis-direction under the guise of voter fraud. Repubs know that to consistanly win elections they must keep the voter count low. In absolute numbers there are many more Dems than there are Reps, so they count on getting their faithful out and keeping the voter count among the folks who would fall under the Dems big tent such as minorities, gays, very poor people etc as low as possible.

They throw out the voter fraud issue to justify this strategy, when actually voter fraud is less likely to happen.

Whats more likely to happen is voter machine fraud in which the Repubs don't want to address.

[Jimaz]

"Papantonio: [Anti-]Voter Rights Conspirators Have Gone to Prison"

[oladub]

Whats more likely to happen is voter machine fraud in which the Repubs don't want to address.

Although I'm ok with requiring proof of identity, I agree that voter machine fraud is probably or potentially a bigger problem. This video illustrates one way voting machines can be programmed to cheat. It was Al Gore, rather than Ron Paul, who had a -16,022 vote count. The producers of this video confused another case of Ron Paul having -3,000 votes in Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4KSx4yUuM

As to Republicans being more guilty. There are four companies making or distributing voting machines but there is some overlocking of ownership and the ownership has very right wing ties. They don't like Ron Paul any better than Democrats. Easy solution: paper ballots.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

[antongast]

Uh, at the risk of seeming simplistic [[and I know this issue has levels of complexity and hyperbole), if you don't have ID do you not have bigger problems outside of the ability to have your identity verified at time of voting?

Maybe, but people with "bigger problems" still have the right to vote as long as they're US citizens over the age of 18.

[Meddle]

Papantonio:

Sorry, but this thread ain't about pizza.


----

I don't get it either. You need ID for almost everything, so why not for voting?

I live in a rural community. When we walk in the door of our town hall to vote, the election workers there are already opening the voter roster to the right page so we can sign it because they know everyone.

Same here. They know you as you walk in the door, which house you live in and who lived there before you.

[Zacha341]

I did not they they do not have the right to vote - that's the standard 'straw man' argument! Perhap the doggone secretary of state could do a one time rate reduction for State ID. How much is it now?

We cannot just throw out ID all together? ID is a daily necessity; for securely accessing and securing ones private information, accessing records, boarding planes, travel, cashing checks, transacting funds, etc. What about when someone cashes your check pretending to be you? No ID requirement, no recorce of complaint. Nonsense!

Not having a least a state ID make most things difficult... We're not talking the 'mark of the beast' here ala some mark in the skin [[well not just yet - -)!

I've had elders in my family who went along without ID for decades as they could circa 1988 perhaps. Then came the day, for example, when their spouse passed and ID was required for a myriad of reasons: insurance, medical record access, to open or convert bank and savings accounts, etc and ETC.

It can be tough to secure ID -- in the case of one of my aunts born at home, in the 40's it was really tough but we helped her track down verifiable info so that she could go on with her life and have economic access and independence once her husband died.

She'd been voting with her voting card up thru that point... [[who knows how she got one in the first place) and given a pass on that as she was known at the voting precinct. Things are far more complex now.

Possessing ID outside of the voting issue is beneficial to the owner of said ID.

Maybe, but people with "bigger problems" still have the right to vote as long as they're US citizens over the age of 18.

[antongast]

I did not they they do not have the right to vote - that's the standard 'straw man' argument!

If people without IDs have the right to vote, they should be allowed to vote, your judgments about their private lives notwithstanding.

[Zacha341]

What ARE YOU READING!? Where's the judgement? Whatever. I was clear and definitive in my comments.

If people without IDs have the right to vote, they should be allowed to vote, your judgments about their private lives notwithstanding.

[Locke09]

If voting is a right, and a state id is required for voting, then a state id should be free. You shouldn't have to pay to vote. Isn't that like a poll tax? And its not a one-time payment, because ids expire and have to be renewed.

[Zacha341]

That's a compelling point LO9. But I don't see the states endorsing it. If anything various licensing and ID fees are going up.

If voting is a right, and a state id is required for voting, then a state id should be free. You shouldn't have to pay to vote. Isn't that like a poll tax? And its not a one-time payment, because ids expire and have to be renewed.

[old guy]

The problem in Wisconsin was that as they were asking for voters to have ID's, they were also re-districting the state. At the same time they decided to close a number of DMV offices. They changed so many things at once that it seemed a bit too obvious what was going on. You could look at a map and see where they closed the DMV offices making it an extreme hardship for someone without a vehicle to access an office. I can't remember for sure, but I believe they stopped the closing of the DMV offices. They just went for the jugular too quickly. That's one of the reasons we're having a recall election today.

[ghettopalmetto]

If voting is a right, and a state id is required for voting, then a state id should be free. You shouldn't have to pay to vote. Isn't that like a poll tax? And its not a one-time payment, because ids expire and have to be renewed.

In fairness, I noticed the South Carolina DMV is now providing State-issued ID's [[non-drivers) for free.

You still, of course, have to prove "legal presence" to obtain such an ID. And if you're looking to obtain a non-drivers ID, you're also looking at taking half a day off work and getting a friend or family member to drive you to the DMV. Piece of cake, right?

[jerrytimes]

Think about this, I have to produce ID to buy liquor, I'm 32 and I'm still carded almost 100% of the time, but Dems don't think that I should be to vote. That's asinine.

[firstandten]

Think about this, I have to produce ID to buy liquor, I'm 32 and I'm still carded almost 100% of the time, but Dems don't think that I should be to vote. That's asinine.

Not a good analogy. Drinking is not a right as defined by our constitution . voting is.

Besides there are all kind of legal and criminal ramifications with alcohol and potential minors

[Jimaz]

Republicans Don't Want You to Vote

More accurately, they're trying to say "Republicans Want You To Not Vote." There's a subtle active/passive negation distinction operating there.

[jerrytimes]

Not a good analogy. Drinking is not a right as defined by our constitution . voting is.

Besides there are all kind of legal and criminal ramifications with alcohol and potential minors

It's a pretty good analogy. You have to be a certain age to LEGALLY do both things. With voting you also have to PROVE you are registered and how can you possibly do both without ID?

[jerrytimes]

Republicans Don't Want You to Vote

More accurately, they're trying to say "Republicans Want You To Not Vote." There's a subtle active/passive negation distinction operating there.

It should read, Republicans want registered voters to vote.

[ghettopalmetto]

It's a pretty good analogy. You have to be a certain age to LEGALLY do both things. With voting you also have to PROVE you are registered and how can you possibly do both without ID?

Because when you register to vote, the Board of Elections puts your name and address on a God damned list. That's how you "prove" your eligibility.

[Crumbled_pavement]

It should read, Republicans want registered voters to vote.

No, it should read Republicans only want Republicans to vote. Don't be ashamed of that, Democrats are not much different. Democrats just want Democrats to vote. We all swear we want to hear alternative viewpoints and then promptly start ignoring views that differ from our own. It's human nature [[I label it tribalism).

[Zacha341]

Very well stated!

No, it should read Republicans only want Republicans to vote. Don't be ashamed of that, Democrats are not much different. Democrats just want Democrats to vote. We all swear we want to hear alternative viewpoints and then promptly start ignoring views that differ from our own. It's human nature [[I label it tribalism).